Is Fury a lineal champion?

[oogiebe]

Wlad became 'the man' by beating #1 contender Ruslan Chagaev.
After Vitali retired Wlad also beat the #1 contender Alexander Povetkin, thus establishing a new lineage.

I always thought any new lineage involves being undisputed.

[margaret thatcher]

I think the argument I see most against there being a lineal champ now is that Tyson Fury announced his retirement and didn't fight for almost 3 years, that's why Transnational doesn't have him as lineal for example. Are they 'clutching at straws'?

[SteveO]

Wlad became 'the man' by beating #1 contender Ruslan Chagaev.
After Vitali retired Wlad also beat the #1 contender Alexander Povetkin, thus establishing a new lineage.

I always thought any new lineage involves being undisputed.

No, when a lineal champion retires, the recognized #1 and #2 contenders fight each other to establish a new lineage.
Fury did not retire, he could not fight because his boxing licence was suspended (not revoked) pending an investigation. When his licence was returned Fury continued his career.

[boxing_rocks]

Wlad became 'the man' by beating #1 contender Ruslan Chagaev.
After Vitali retired Wlad also beat the #1 contender Alexander Povetkin, thus establishing a new lineage.

Seriously? Chagaev and Povetkin??? They were #1 contenders according to WBA which is the most corrupt ABC org. They were certainly not the strongest opponents available.

What about Wilder who was and still is a WBC champion?

[margaret thatcher]

What actually counts as a retirement? Dude said he retired, stopped fighting, and became massively obese and stopped training.

Like, if a guy said he retired but always had some thought in his mind that he'd return, then came back 5 years later, does that count?

[boxing_rocks]

I always thought any new lineage involves being undisputed.

No, when a lineal champion retires, the recognized #1 and #2 contenders fight each other to establish a new lineage.
Fury did not retire, he could not fight because his boxing licence was suspended (not revoked) pending an investigation. When his licence was returned Fury continued his career.

Recognized by who? Did majority think that Povetkin was better than Wilder? There probably were at least 10 HWs better than Chagaev at the time.

[SmoothStyle1]

Wlad became 'the man' by beating #1 contender Ruslan Chagaev.
After Vitali retired Wlad also beat the #1 contender Alexander Povetkin, thus establishing a new lineage.

Wlad beat Chagaev in 2009, this is back when Vitali was still an active champion.

At that time, Wlad and Vitali were the #1 and #2 in the division so not sure how Wlad beating Chagaev could result in a new lineal champ when big brother was still looming out there.

[margaret thatcher]

The problem with Wlad's case, is that although he was clearly the top guy , there was no real clear, unarguable moment/fight when he really earned that, it was a cumulative thing

[squiggy]

But Wlad clearly was the top heavyweight by the time Fury beat him.

[ewenhay]

Lol. Is this thread still going?

It's not really a big deal either way.

We'll find out who the top guy in the division is in 24 hours.

[funso banjo baby]

Fury is the champion

the other baubles mean fook all

end of

close thread

[boxing_rocks]

But Wlad clearly was the top heavyweight by the time Fury beat him.

First of all, "top heavyweight" and "lineal champion" are two different things. Second of all, there was unbeaten WBC champion Wilder and rising Joshua, so how was it "clearly" ?

[ewenhay]

But Wlad clearly was the top heavyweight by the time Fury beat him.

First of all, "top heavyweight" and "lineal champion" are two different things. Second of all, there was unbeaten WBC champion Wilder and rising Joshua, so how was it "clearly" ?

Wilder was still fighting taxi drivers when Fury decisioned Klitschko. Joshua was barely ranked.

[Brute]

Fury beat Wlad Klitschko who at that time held all the major belts. The WBC decided not to recognise Fury.

Fury has still not lost a fight.

[boxing_rocks]

Fury beat Wlad Klitschko who at that time held all the major belts. The WBC decided not to recognise Fury.

Fury has still not lost a fight.

????? WBC belt was held by Wilder.

[boxing_rocks]

First of all, "top heavyweight" and "lineal champion" are two different things. Second of all, there was unbeaten WBC champion Wilder and rising Joshua, so how was it "clearly" ?

Wilder was still fighting taxi drivers when Fury decisioned Klitschko. Joshua was barely ranked.

These are opinions. Wlad never met formal requirements to become a lineal champion.

[Brute]

Fury beat Wlad Klitschko who at that time held all the major belts. The WBC decided not to recognise Fury.

Fury has still not lost a fight.

????? WBC belt was held by Wilder.

Who did Wilder beat to get that? Wilder was recognised by the WBC after he beat Stiverne.

[oogiebe]

????? WBC belt was held by Wilder.

Who did Wilder beat to get that?

Wilder had already beaten Stiverne for the WBC belt when Fury faced Wlad.

[Brute]

Who did Stiverne beat?

[oogiebe]

Who did Stiverne beat?

Arreola for the vacant crown. None of this matters. Last undisputed was Lewis. No one has established themselves or 'reset' the lineal as undisputed since.

[squiggy]

But nobody will, either. You'll be able to play "somebody else still has XYZ belt" until the cows come home.

[ewenhay]

But nobody will, either. You'll be able to play "somebody else still has XYZ belt" until the cows come home.

Exactly. And people count the wbo these days. And in some cases the ibo.

[ewenhay]

If you're being exact about this then Lewis surely wouldn't have been lineal either.

Nor many before him.

The lineage would have stopped when Tunney retired?

[ewenhay]

Wilder was still fighting taxi drivers when Fury decisioned Klitschko. Joshua was barely ranked.

These are opinions. Wlad never met formal requirements to become a lineal champion.

Which would have required him to fight his own brother? Because he did everything else but that.

And what are these formal requirements? Are they written down somewhere?

[boxing_rocks]

But nobody will, either. You'll be able to play "somebody else still has XYZ belt" until the cows come home.

There are 4 major belts. Crawford and Usyk established new lineages, but they both moved up, so those disappeared.