A collection of very nice resumes

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 14 Jun 2006, 20:38

First of all I'd like to say that I'm listing only the Hall of Famers. It's easier like that. I know there are a few guys like Holman Williams and Kid Norfolk who deserve to be in there which is a shame.

(Not win based, just opposition in general):

Benny Leonard

Jimmy McLarnin
Lew Tendler
Ted 'Kid' Lewis
Jack Britton
Freddie Welsh
Johnny Kilbane
Johnny Dundee
Willie Ritchie

Harry Greb

Tommy Loughran
Tommy Gibbons
Mike Gibbons
Maxie Rosenbloom
Battling Levinsky
Jack Dillon
Mickey Walker
Tiger Flowers
Jimmy Slattery
Gene Tunney

Archie Moore

Muhammad Ali
Rocky Marciano
Ezzard Charles
Floyd Patterson
Charley Burley
Harold Johnson
Jimmy Bivins
Carl Olson
Joey Maxim
Willie Pastrano
Teddy Yarosz

Ray Robinson

Henry Armstrong
Fritzie Zivic
Sammy Angott
Rocky Graziano
Gene Fullmer
Joey Giardello
Carmen Basilio
Kid Gavilan
Jake LaMotta
Randolph Turpin
Joey Maxim
Carl Olson

Sammy Angott

Henry Armstrong
Ray Robinson
Willie Pep
Ike Williams
Baby Arizmendi
Bob Montgomery
Beau Jack
Fritzie Zivic
Freddie Miller
Lew Jenkins

Jimmy McLarnin

Lou Ambers
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri
Young Corbett III
Billy Petrolle
Benny Leonard
Lou Brouillard
Sammy Mandell
Louis 'Kid' Kaplan
Jackie Fields
Pancho Villa
Fidel LaBarba
Bud Taylor

Henry Armstrong

Ray Robinson
Baby Arizmendi
Lou Ambers
Chalky Wright
Midget Wolgast
Barney Ross
Lew Jenkins
Beau Jack
Sammy Angott
Fritzie Zivic
Benny Bass

Sam Langford

Joe Gans
Harry Wills
Joe Jeanette
Sam McVey
Tiger Flowers
Jack Johnson
Philadelphia Jack O' Brien
Stanley Ketchel
Dixie Kid

Muhammad Ali

George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Ken Norton
Sonny Liston
Larry Holmes
Floyd Patterson
Bob Foster
Archie Moore

Tony Canzoneri

Lou Ambers
Jimmy McLarnin
Baby Arizmendi
Barney Ross
Kid Chocolate
Billy Petrolle
Jackie 'Kid' Berg
Benny Bass
Sammy Mandell
Bud Taylor
Johnny Dundee

Ezzard Charles

Joey Maxim
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Joe Louis
Archie Moore
Harold Johnson
Jimmy Bivins
Charley Burley

Freddie Welsh

Johnny Kilbane
Benny Leonard
Battling Nelson
Ad Wolgast
Willie Ritchie
Johnny Dundee
Jim Driscoll
Abe Attell
Packey McFarland

Johnny Dundee

Benny Leonard
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Welsh
Tony Canzoneri
Willie Ritchie
Sammy Mandell
Lew Tendler

--

Add some more guys. But again, Hall of Famers only please. It just makes the whole thing clearer and easier to work with. Add your own and comment!

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 14 Jun 2006, 21:14

MARVIN HAGLER

Sugar Ray Leonard

Note: Future hall of fame candidates with almost certainty that they will get in.
Hearns and Duran.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 14 Jun 2006, 21:17

borinken25 wrote:MARVIN HAGLER

Sugar Ray Leonard
John Mugabi
Thomas Hearns
Mustafa Hamsho
Juan Domingo Roldan
Roberto Duran
Vito Antuofermo
Bennie Briscoe

Please read my post!! Hall of Famers only. Let's keep this tidy... Hearns, Duran, Hamsho, Roldan, Briscoe, Antuofermo and Mugabi are not in the Hall of Fame. Please edit.

If you want to know if a fighter is in the Hall of Fame, simply google: 'fighter X ibhof' - for instance, 'Freddie Miller ibhof'.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 14 Jun 2006, 21:32

DoubleM wrote:
borinken25 wrote:MARVIN HAGLER

Sugar Ray Leonard
John Mugabi
Thomas Hearns
Mustafa Hamsho
Juan Domingo Roldan
Roberto Duran
Vito Antuofermo
Bennie Briscoe
Please read my post!! Hall of Famers only. Let's keep this tidy... Hearns, Duran, Hamsho, Roldan, Briscoe, Antuofermo and Mugabi are not in the Hall of Fame. Please edit.

If you want to know if a fighter is in the Hall of Fame, simply google: 'fighter X ibhof' - for instance, 'Freddie Miller ibhof'.

Sorry I found it and you are correct. My apologies I thought you meant the Fighter in the HOF who fought great competition regardless of the competition status in the HOF.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Jun 2006, 23:25

Carlos Monzon

Rodrigo Valdez
Jose Angel Napoles
Emile Griffith
Bennie Briscoe
Nino Benvenuti
Denny Moyer
Jean-Claude Bouttier
Tony Mundine
Tony Licata

Trent · Post by **Trent** » 14 Jun 2006, 23:37

Tony Mundine in the HOF?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 15 Jun 2006, 08:36

The great Joe Choynski:

Corbett
Fitzsimmons
T. Sharkey
Jeffries
Johnson
McCoy
Walcott
O’Brien
Hart

Only HOF'ers, which is not quite fair for the really old timers like Joe, since many of his contemporaries are ignored by the HOF process.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Jun 2006, 08:50

BoxBuzz wrote:Carlos Monzon

Rodrigo Valdez
Jose Angel Napoles
Emile Griffith
Bennie Briscoe
Nino Benvenuti
Denny Moyer
Jean-Claude Bouttier
Tony Mundine
Tony Licata

BoxBuzz, please. Hall of Famers only. Perhaps you got confused like Borinken.

Hall of Fame opposition only. Licata, Mundine, Bouttier, Moyer, Briscoe and Valdez are not in it.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Jun 2006, 11:36

Perhaps we need to do an anaylsis of HOF quality vs Some who have been overlooked?....I wasn't as confused as I was rebellious. Briscoe...not a HOF'er......let's have someone stand up front and explain that to the class.

Fame does not = Quality. It is after all the hall of fame...not the hall of competence.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 15 Jun 2006, 11:45

Sorry, also got it wrong the first time around. Here is the list reduced to HOFers.

Gene Tunney

Georges Carpentier
Jack Dempsey
Tommy Gibbons
Harry Greb
Battling Levinsky
Tommy Loughran

Max Schmeling

Max Baer (L)
Joe Louis
Jack Sharkey
Young Stribling
Mickey Walker

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 15 Jun 2006, 11:54

BoxBuzz wrote: Fame does not = Quality. It is after all the hall of fame...not the hall of competence.

And that’s especially true when you’re talking about the boxing HOF. There are plenty of pretty ordinary guys in the HOF, and LOTS of overlooked guys - especially a lot of the earlier fighters. My list for Choynski was twice as long until I noticed the thread said HOF opponents.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 15 Jun 2006, 12:13

Johnny Risko

Not a HOFer himself, but he fought:

Max Baer
Jack Delaney
Tommy Loughran
Max Schmeling
Jack Sharkey
Jimmy Slattery
Young Stribling
Gene Tunney
Mickey Walker

.... and won often enough.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 15 Jun 2006, 14:54

Gene Fullmer
Dick Tiger
Sugar Ray Robinson
Carmen Basilio
Joey Giardello
(all multiple times, I know its scant but I have been banging his drum lately, sorry)

Joe Walcott (Barbados Demon)
Mike Donovan
Joey Gans
Sam Langford
Peter Jackson
Dixie Kid
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Joe Choynski
George 'kid' Lavigne

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 15 Jun 2006, 15:42

2 of my favorites

Billy Conn
Joe Louis
Tony Zale
Fred Apostoli
Young Corbett III
Teddy Yarosz
Fritzie Zivic

Joey Maxim
Carl 'BoBo' Olson
Willie Pastrano
Floyd Patterson
Archie Moore
Sugar Ray Robinson
Ezzard Charles
Jimmy Bivins
Jersey Joe Walcott

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Jun 2006, 15:44

BoxBuzz wrote:Perhaps we need to do an anaylsis of HOF quality vs Some who have been overlooked?....I wasn't as confused as I was rebellious. Briscoe...not a HOF'er......let's have someone stand up front and explain that to the class.

Fame does not = Quality. It is after all the hall of fame...not the hall of competence.

No need to tell me that, BB. One of my favourite fighters, Holman Williams, is criminally left out of the Hall of Fame.

Still, life is a bitch. We need some cut off point, which is the Hall of Fame. Next we'll say Williams should be on Moore's list, then Booker, then Chase, then God knows who else... Some will start saying Valdes should be on there, others will disagree. See what I mean?

Cut off = Hall of Fame.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:17

It's one way to do it.....and it has it's own "merit". Theoreticals are what ever we want them to be...so yep....works for me. And at the end of your quest you'll probably have just about as valid a process as the current boxrec all time ratings.

Because I'm one to seldom if ever argue with how the judges see a fight or a least allow for and ultimately accept the judges opinions I'm also open to different approaches to calculate the "who's who" list.

This is why my preffered way is to utilize subjective ratings vs objective criteria for the most part when rating the greats. Brilliant anaylists do a better job of rating fighters than mathmatical formulas do. But people erroneously prefer objective criteria. I only wish the Hall of fame was truly the hall of competence.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:21

JAHamilton77 wrote:Gene Fullmer
Dick Tiger
Sugar Ray Robinson
Carmen Basilio
Joey Giardello
(all multiple times, I know its scant but I have been banging his drum lately, sorry)

The problem here is he only faced Giardello once, deserved to lose...
Faced Basilio twice one of which was a criminal stoppage that should not be on basilios record.
Faced Robinson four times, was knocked out once, won a gift draw once which should be a win for Robinson, won what is in my opinion a disputable decision in the first fight while using tactics that should have gotten him DQd, and only really won clearly in their final fight.
Faced Dick Tiger 3 times losing a one sided decision in the first, getting a gift draw in the secon, and getting a one sided ass kicking in the third that resulted in a stoppage loss. So call me hard to impress but a lot of Fullmers HOF resume is smoke and mirrors.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:53

klompton wrote:
JAHamilton77 wrote:Gene Fullmer
Dick Tiger
Sugar Ray Robinson
Carmen Basilio
Joey Giardello
(all multiple times, I know its scant but I have been banging his drum lately, sorry)

The problem here is he only faced Giardello once, deserved to lose...
Faced Basilio twice one of which was a criminal stoppage that should not be on basilios record.
Faced Robinson four times, was knocked out once, won a gift draw once which should be a win for Robinson, won what is in my opinion a disputable decision in the first fight while using tactics that should have gotten him DQd, and only really won clearly in their final fight.
Faced Dick Tiger 3 times losing a one sided decision in the first, getting a gift draw in the secon, and getting a one sided ass kicking in the third that resulted in a stoppage loss. So call me hard to impress but a lot of Fullmers HOF resume is smoke and mirrors.

I know thats why I included a guy with a more quality resume in the same post ....... Like I said I was just sneaking Gene in there

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:58

Gotcha

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:10

klompton wrote:
JAHamilton77 wrote:Gene Fullmer
Dick Tiger
Sugar Ray Robinson
Carmen Basilio
Joey Giardello
(all multiple times, I know its scant but I have been banging his drum lately, sorry)

The problem here is he only faced Giardello once, deserved to lose...
Faced Basilio twice one of which was a criminal stoppage that should not be on basilios record.
Faced Robinson four times, was knocked out once, won a gift draw once which should be a win for Robinson, won what is in my opinion a disputable decision in the first fight while using tactics that should have gotten him DQd, and only really won clearly in their final fight.
Faced Dick Tiger 3 times losing a one sided decision in the first, getting a gift draw in the secon, and getting a one sided ass kicking in the third that resulted in a stoppage loss. So call me hard to impress but a lot of Fullmers HOF resume is smoke and mirrors.

that statement reeks of bias

gene fullmer was past his prime when he fought tiger, plus the 2nd fight was not a gift draw.

he beat the shit out of basillio twice

the giardello draw was a fair one, it wasnt a robbery though the majority though giardello edged it. but no means a highway robbery

the 1st robinson decision was a clear win for fullmer

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:31

Oh bullshit, You havent even seen the second basilio fight or the giardello fight. two of the rarest films out there. I have them both and Giardello fight was a fornicating robbery. The second Basilio fight was anything but a beating for Basilio. Fullmer ran the entire time keeping Basilio at bay with a wet noodle jab. The referee came between the fighters during a clinch and for NO REASON AT ALL pushed Basilio back to his corner. Basilio hadnt been staggered and hadnt taken much punishment. Basilio was so angry he pulled his fist back to punch the referee, chasing him around the ring screaming at him. This is all in the film (you know, the one you havent seen) the ring then floods with state police who push Basilio into a corner and hold him there. Basilio's manager DeJohn then goes to complain to the ref who turns a cold shoulder and walks away, as Dejohn tries to follow him a big burly state trooper comes up and pushes Dejohn back with his finger in his face threateningly. It was a joke. You couldnt win a decision over Fullmer out west, PERIOD. When he fought the rematch with Dick Tiger he ran the entire time trying that goofy wet noodle pawing jab of his and NEVER tried to take the title back. Somehow it was called a draw. Tiger yelled into the microphone after the fight "WHY DIDNT HE TRY TO WIN HIS TITLE BACK" Every one knew it joke of a decision. Count all the close (or wide decisions) that went to Fullmer on or near his home base:

Giardello
Robinson
Webb
Fernandez
Tiger
and that shitty stoppage of Basilio.

Some of the biggest fights of his career.

You wanna argue he shouldnt have been DQd against Robinson? Watch the film, He pushes or trips Robinson through the ropes 2 or 3 times one of which was scored a knockdown. He headbutted, he elbowed, he threw rabbit punches, kidney punches, you name it. Why? Because on the rare occasions he actually had to fight within the rules he was getting his face pounded just like when he fought Giardello. When Giardello paid him back in kind Fullmer bitched and complained to the ref getting a round deducted from Giardello. Why? Because when Giardello saw Fullmer coming in with his head he lowered his own head and let Fullmer run into a butt. Now tell me, how can you dock a guy points from lowering his head when the other guy butts you? Ill tell you how, the ref and the officials were in the bag, just like they always were when fullmer fought out west.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:38

And Brockton your pullin the old "he was past his prime excuse for guys losing fights a bit too often. Tiger was older than Fullmer when he beat him.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 15 Jun 2006, 18:11

Beau Jack
Ike Williams
Lew Jenkins
Kid Gavilan
Sammy Angott
Bob Montgomery
Henry Armstrong
Fritzie Zivic

Abe Attell
Johnny Kilbane
Owen Moran
Jim Driscoll
Ad Wolgast
Freddie Welsh
Battling Nelson
George Dixon

Pancho Villa
Jimmy McClarnin
Charles 'Bud' Taylor
Kid Williams
Jimmy Wilde
Frankie Genaro

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 15 Jun 2006, 18:12

Another thing about Fullmer that most people dont know. He used to always have his own personal training set up for his fights. In the fourth fight with Robinson, Robinson had it written into the contract that the ring be a certain size (24 feet or something like that) Fullmer obviously wanted a smaller ring to suit his infighting and bulling. When Robinson got to the arena for the fight he noticed that Fullmer's ring was set up (twenty feet or something like that). Robinson demanded that the ring he contracted for be set up or he wouldnt fight and left. When he came back Fullmer's manager handed him a tape measure to measure the ring. Unknown to Robinson they had cut four feet off the tape. When Robinson measured it everything looked fine and the fight went on despite the fact that they had conned Robinson. This is something Fullmer admits to and laughs about to this day. Yeah he was real credit to the sport. Joey Giardello still hates the fornicator and I dont blame him the way he fought. he acted like the sweetest god fearing country boy outside of the ring but when it came to boxing the guy broke every rule in the book and didnt mind having crooks protect his title for him.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 15 Jun 2006, 22:14

Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Jimmy Bivins
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Billy Conn
Max Schmeling
James J. Braddock
Jack Sharkey
Max Baer

James J. Jeffries
James J. Corbett (x2)
Jack Johnson
Bob Fitzsimmons (x2)
Tom Sharkey (x2)
Joe Choynski
Peter Jackson
(9 out of the 21 fights BoxRec have recorded were against HoF'ers.... 42.8%)