Best Heavyweight Champion with double digit losses?

[Ron C]

Who do you guys think was the best Heavyweight Champion that had atleast 10+ Losses on their record? I was watching a Jersey Joe Walcott highlight video and it triggered me to ask this question. He probably has the worst record of all the Heavyweight Champions but Good Lawd he was INCREDIBLY talented. Greatest heavyweight champion with double digit losses though? I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking lol!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BtwrGZnp9b0

[Duran1970]

Holyfield

[Controversial]

Holyfield

First name I thought of too

[hhaehre]

Maybe Jack Johnson?

[Controversial]

I was watching a Jersey Joe Walcott highlight video and it triggered me to ask this question. He probably has the worst record of all the Heavyweight Champions but Good Lawd he was INCREDIBLY talented. Greatest heavyweight champion with double digit losses though?

As an all round fighter Ezzard Charles pips Walcott and Charles had 25 losses compared to Walcott's 20.

[Ambling Alp II]

As heavyweights, Charles and Walcott were about as even as two guys can get.
Charles lost a lot of fights late in his career when he was past it.
Walcott lost a lot of fights early in his career; he didn't have a decent trainer. His career took off after Dan Florio started to train him.

This goes down to Johnson and Holyfield.

[margaret thatcher]

Holy for sure, imagine too how even more beastly he'd have looked vs welterweights

[Ambling Alp II]

I agree Holyfield would have looked beastly against welterweights? What does that have to with anything?

[margaret thatcher]

You know exactly what it means

[oogiebe]

You know exactly what it means

You are relentless. But it's funny when you do it to someone else!

[margaret thatcher]

[cfang]

Jack Johnson

[Ambling Alp II]

You know exactly what it means

I guess this the part where we have to assume that Johnson was not that good because the heavyweight champion that he won the title from was small.
Obviously he should have passed on the what probably have been his only chance to win the title.

[Seamus]

He feasted on the old the young and the small while avoiding the best of his era on a regular basis.

[Ambling Alp II]

Thought of doing the Mayweather thing and say that he beat the best of his era (including 6 Hall of Famers).

Yes, it would have been great if Johnson would defended the title against Jeannette or McVey.

However, we have to look at the whole picture. He had fighting for 11 years and had well over 60 fights before he ever got a title shot.
He started out fighting in blindfolded in battle royals.
Yes he beat some middleweights. However, you have to consider the times. This was not uncommon back then. Sometimes you had to take whoever was available at the time. He could just fly out to Las Vegas and make a ton of money.

He did beat several legitimate heavyweights before he won the title.
Jeannette was 27 when fought him.
Other guys like Denver Ed Martin was legitimate heavyweights but long forgotton.

He couldn't get a title shot against Jeffries.
Burns was the champ who gave him a shot. Was he supposed to turn that down?
After he finally won the title, can you really blame for defending it against Ketchel and Jeffries for a lot more money than he would have made fighting Jeannette or McVey again?

Willard was a big heavyweight and under normal circumstances he would have won that fight even though he was was past it by then.

And no, he never fought a welterweight.

[cfang]

Agree with this. Johnson is so underated by many on these forums these days. He was an exceptional fighter and people seem to look at the bare facts without considering the times. Would you risk that hard won title if white crowds beyed for your blood, threw hot coins and cigar butts at you, try to put you in prison for taking your gf across a state line. Not to mention allowing opponents to blatantly headbutt you round after round - see the Jim flynn fight for details.

He beat all the world's top heavys for 15 years. Obviously he's going to fight white fighters when that was where the money was. He was a boxer dramatically superior to his peers and one of the greatest of all time.

Thought of doing the Mayweather thing and say that he beat the best of his era (including 6 Hall of Famers).

Yes, it would have been great if Johnson would defended the title against Jeannette or McVey.

However, we have to look at the whole picture. He had fighting for 11 years and had well over 60 fights before he ever got a title shot.
He started out fighting in blindfolded in battle royals.
Yes he beat some middleweights. However, you have to consider the times. This was not uncommon back then. Sometimes you had to take whoever was available at the time. He could just fly out to Las Vegas and make a ton of money.

He did beat several legitimate heavyweights before he won the title.
Jeannette was 27 when fought him.
Other guys like Denver Ed Martin was legitimate heavyweights but long forgotton.

He couldn't get a title shot against Jeffries.
Burns was the champ who gave him a shot. Was he supposed to turn that down?
After he finally won the title, can you really blame for defending it against Ketchel and Jeffries for a lot more money than he would have made fighting Jeannette or McVey again?

Willard was a big heavyweight and under normal circumstances he would have won that fight even though he was was past it by then.

And no, he never fought a welterweight.

[margaret thatcher]

Massively overrated overall is the 'giant', the times were the times and they were circus freakshows at times, he doesn't get a boost for them just like a guy who fought in a weak era doesn't get points added on to make up for that, some of these posters fully understand that in other cases but are very selective in applying that (just as they are with the eye test lol)

Let's give Holy a guy who weighed 160 on fight night (aka a welterweight) or hadn't fought in 6 years to pound on

[Ambling Alp II]

Don't give him credit for wins against guys who weighed 160. (btw, 160 is a middleweight, not a welterweight.) The other heavyweights of the era did the same thing. Holyfield would have as well. Don't give him credit for beating a guy who was coming off a long layoff. Just ignore those fights. Judge him by the rest of his career.

[oogiebe]

Don't give him credit for wins against guys who weighed 160. (btw, 160 is a middleweight, not a welterweight.) The other heavyweights of the era did the same thing. Holyfield would have as well. Don't give him credit for beating a guy who was coming off a long layoff. Just ignore those fights. Judge him by the rest of his career.

He said weighing 160 on fight night or didn't you catch that.

[Ambling Alp II]

Just never gave any credence to that. If a guy weighed in at 160, it counts at 160. Weigh in times have always been inconsistent boxing. Sometimes they weren't done at. Sometimes in the morning of the fight. Sometimes the day before. Sometimes the fight was in the day. Sometimes at night. Don't really give flying handshake. This is supposed to be Johnson and the best champion with double digit losses.

[oogiebe]

Just never gave any credence to that. If a guy weighed in at 160, it counts at 160. Weigh in times have always been inconsistent boxing. Sometimes they weren't done at. Sometimes in the morning of the fight. Sometimes the day before. Sometimes the fight was in the day. Sometimes at night. Don't really give flying handshake. This is supposed to be Johnson and the best champion with double digit losses.

That's fine, but just ;pointing out he didn't misidentify the weight class.

[Ambling Alp II]

It looks like there has been 9 of them:
Johnson, Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, Braddock, Charles, Walcott and Holyfield.

It's kind of interesting that 5 of the 9 were the champions the period between Tunney and Louis.

[Caractacus]

yeah,but should any records of any loses of any professional Boxer after the age of 36 years really count ?

[tiny_acres]

It looks like there has been 9 of them:
Johnson, Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, Braddock, Charles, Walcott and Holyfield.

It's kind of interesting that 5 of the 9 were the champions the period between Tunney and Louis.

Don't forget Leon Spinks also had double digit losses. Though he is far from the best of the bunch

[Ambling Alp II]

Good catch!