The end of the Great White Hope: a historical not racist perspective

[ewenhay]

How's the view from down that rabbit hole🕳?

[margaret thatcher]

[Tony1244]

Exactly.

Imagine you're a talented athlete.

You get offered two choices.

A multi million dollar contract to go college, receive an education, meet lots of young women around campus and get paid for throwing and catching a ball.

Or

An opportunity to take your chances in the shark infested boxing game where you'll get punched in the face every day, only get good money if you reach the top few in the division and likely get dumped on the scrapheap if you lose a fight relatively early in your career.

You decide.

Honey, watch me catch a touchdown pass in front of 50,000 people or

Honey, watch me KO someone in front of 500 people.

Which one gets more p*ssy?

[margaret thatcher]

I think some people are really overestimating the degree to which youngsters pick up sports due to long term calculations of finances years and years away. A lot of kids don't even see beyond the month, if that. If a guy's decision on which sport to pick up is based entirely on money and fame, sure. Of course, for those who know their boxing history, they can easily list off many great US HWs who pursued the sport for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with that. If these types of guys no longer exists, it's not because there are sports today that were already around when they were active , sports already offered plenty of perks for their top competitors

I'm sure there are many guys out there around the world who would've been great boxers but never got into the sport because they chose other paths. A global thing no doubt , the guy who would've been the ATG GOAT may be working at a desk right now

[ewenhay]

People have given you the answers.

It's a combination of things.

Better opportunities for young athletes in the USA.

The break up of the old Soviet Union resulting in professionalism in those parts of the world.

Better funding in some countries plays a part.

America is also going through a cycle of less promising heavyweights. It happens in many sports.

There's lots of contributing factors. Not just one answer.

[margaret thatcher]

It's a combination, no doubt. Not buying the other sports argument too much though, people who know their history --what got the greats into the sport and what else was around at the time--know this. Major league sports were super lucrative and full of fame and free education before the like of Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Holmes, etc were there. Guys like Joe Frazier, Foreman, etc started boxing for reasons totally untouched by the other sports argument too.

[Tony1244]

"""""""If a guy's decision on which sport to pick up is based entirely on money and fame, sure."""""



I think the defense rests.

Joe Louis and Ali graced the cover of LIFE Magazine. Ali and Holmes-Cooney on TIME and NEWSWEEK. They were part of the American fabric.

Sadly, over 90% of American have not heard of one present day heavyweight. You think that doesn't effect the % of Americans that take up boxing?

[margaret thatcher]

Lol, and yet Ali started boxing to beat up a bike thief, Frazier to lose weight, Tyson and Foreman because they met youth workers who boxed. Holmes was just nearby a gym and walked in and gave it a try. Fame and fortune is way off and way long term from the reality of picking up and pursuing a sport.

[ewenhay]

Exactly.

Boxing was a mainstream sport in those days.

Now its marginal at best.

The sport could also support more professional fighters then too although they had to fight often to make a living in most cases which is why so many old timers have so many fights on their record. There are far less club fights nowadays.

[oogiebe]

Marge won't let go. I don't think he really gets it. Save yourselves. It's hopeless.

[ewenhay]

He's also confusing two things.

The reason people pick up a sport in the first place which is usually as a young kid.

And

The reason people decide to choose a profession as a young adult

[margaret thatcher]

You say stuff like that but keep popping back in anyway. There is no letting go around here

It's so easy to find greats who were in the sport for reasons that had nothing to do with money, so easy to see that other sports have been lucrative for decades and decades and decades, so easy to see guys even who did do other money filled sports but became atg boxers instead, so easy to see that international hws are excelling when there is as much internationalization of major league sports as ever, etc.

The evidence is there, I think you either don't get it or you don't want to get it

[Tony1244]

Marge won't let go. I don't think he really gets it. Save yourselves. It's hopeless.

He has conceded the entire argument with:


"If a guy's decision on which sport to pick up is based entirely on money and fame, sure."

Because, obviously, to a young athlete that is all that exists.

[margaret thatcher]

He's also confusing two things.

The reason people pick up a sport in the first place which is usually as a young kid.

And

The reason people decide to choose a profession as a young adult

They are very closely related and the first hugely influences the last. Besides, if you actually bothered to follow the posts, you'd see that others have suggested repeatedly that the decision to start a sport is based entirely on some long term calculation money and fame, evidence shows that simply is BS and that it's irrelevant to many greats

[margaret thatcher]

Marge won't let go. I don't think he really gets it. Save yourselves. It's hopeless.

He has conceded the entire argument with:


"If a guy's decision on which sport to pick up is based entirely on money and fame, sure."

Because, obviously, to a young athlete that is all that exists.

And there it is

But hey, ignore whatever evidence you will about why people pick up sports, every kid has some 20 year plan in operation

[ewenhay]

Kids are also encouraged to try a number of sports these days when they're young. A wider range of sports are available in most towns and cities for kids than there used to be.

[margaret thatcher]

The major league sports have been easily accessible for years, except for hockey, the sport of whitebois

[Tony1244]

He has conceded the entire argument with:


"If a guy's decision on which sport to pick up is based entirely on money and fame, sure."

Because, obviously, to a young athlete that is all that exists.

And there it is

But hey, ignore whatever evidence you will about why people pick up sports, every kid has some 20 year plan in operation

If you don't get the whole fame, fortune, and girls incentive to a teenage mind, I'm beginning to think you're an alien from another planet. Like the coneheads on Saturday Night Live.

[ewenhay]

He's also confusing two things.

The reason people pick up a sport in the first place which is usually as a young kid.

And

The reason people decide to choose a profession as a young adult

They are very closely related and the first hugely influences the last. Besides, if you actually bothered to follow the posts, you'd see that others have suggested repeatedly that the decision to start a sport is based entirely on some long term calculation money and fame, evidence shows that simply is BS and that it's irrelevant to many greats

You've missed your own point.

The reason to try a sport is one thing.

The reason to choose one as a profession is a totally different thing.

[margaret thatcher]

The major league sports have been easily accessible for years, except for hockey, the sport of whitebois

And I doubt this 'widening' would happen in the US but not internationally, in fact we see an internationalization in sports

[margaret thatcher]

They are very closely related and the first hugely influences the last. Besides, if you actually bothered to follow the posts, you'd see that others have suggested repeatedly that the decision to start a sport is based entirely on some long term calculation money and fame, evidence shows that simply is BS and that it's irrelevant to many greats

You've missed your own point.

The reason to try a sport is one thing.

The reason to choose one as a profession is a totally different thing.

Not missing it at all

And hmm, I wonder when Tony will post for the 50th time that everyone is starting in the first place for money and fame lol

[margaret thatcher]

And there it is

But hey, ignore whatever evidence you will about why people pick up sports, every kid has some 20 year plan in operation

If you don't get the whole fame, fortune, and girls incentive to a teenage mind, I'm beginning to think you're an alien from another planet. Like the coneheads on Saturday Night Live.

I 'get' history and all the evidence which shows that many great fighters started for reasons that had nothing to do with that, it's all very easy to understand but I get that it doesn't fit with your simplistic view. Overly simplistic, overly broad, two things you have been mastering. Though I did get a good chuckle at the suggestion I am a Pan-Euroist, Americas hating Marg