Is Fury the best heavyweight of all time?

[BoxFrancis]

He ended the longest reign in heavyweight history Wladimir held the titles and was unbeaten for 9 years. Furys the biggest and the best I can’t rate these 6’3 240lbs heavyweights above fury because I know they couldn’t beat him. Just my opinion. Before the rematch wilder was the most devestating hitter in history and know after Furys stepped to him and beat him up he’s a bum who couldn’t box. Near enough every previous hw champion was picking Wilder to win the fight. He ain’t no bum he just came unstuck against an elite level fighter.

Ok, being silly is one thing, but being factually incorrect is another. Wlad didn't have the longest reign in HW history.

I was factually incorrect tho his reign was 11 years rather than 9. Longest in hw history

[oogiebe]

Klitschko held the titles for 4,382 days it’s the longest reign in heavyweight history mate.

4382 sounds like all days he held a title (and sounds a bit high to me). A reign is non-stop. You might want to check Joe Louis.

[snake33]

If Fury had Wilder's right hand he would be the GOAT.
But he's the best at this moment. Which is all that counts.
Fury should be looking for a hobby. In four or five fights
he'll hang 'em up and cocaine and eclairs isn't a viable
retirement plan.

[margaret thatcher]

cocaine and eclairs isn't a viable retirement plan.

Speak for yourself

[PUGLET]

Interesting thread..... I consider myself a fan of Tyson Fury, but prime Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson all get inside/mid-range and tear him up, prolly knock him out. Just a question of speed/strength/athleticism vs Fury’s size advantage. Vitali K. prolly does the same.

Just my two cents. Would all be intriguing fights. All that being said..... regardless of what Fury does from here on out.
NO WAY I’d CONSIDER HIM in the top 15 of ATG Heavyweights.

And I’m a huge fan of his. I think he’s great for the sport and beats Joshua easily.

What is your top 15 bruh?

Hmmmm..... maybe top 15 was an overstatement. But, simply in term of who beats who, in their respective primes, at their very best, here it goes:

Ali
Tyson
Lewis
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier
Bowe
Wladmir
Vitali

Ok.... so maybe he’d make top 15, prolly my 11. I don’t think he rates above Wladmir even though he boxed him up. Will give this further thought.

[margaret thatcher]

Interesting, thanks for the list

[PUGLET]

Interesting thread..... I consider myself a fan of Tyson Fury, but prime Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson all get inside/mid-range and tear him up, prolly knock him out. Just a question of speed/strength/athleticism vs Fury’s size advantage. Vitali K. prolly does the same.

Just my two cents. Would all be intriguing fights. All that being said..... regardless of what Fury does from here on out.
NO WAY I’d CONSIDER HIM in the top 15 of ATG Heavyweights.

And I’m a huge fan of his. I think he’s great for the sport and beats Joshua easily.

How can you not have him in the top 15? Furys two best wins are arguably the two best in hw history. As for Lewis,Bowe,Holyfield and Tyson - Lewis was way to hesitant for me after being knocked out he couldn’t get rid of Holyfield what makes you think he would knock out Fury? Holyfield didn’t punch anywhere hard enough to ‘tear him up. He would of outboxed Bowe using his range and imposing his physicality at times he’s a much bigger man. Of course the Tyson fight would of been class but I’d put my last pound on fury to come through. And for my money if Wladimir couldn’t do anything with Fury then Vitali wouldn’t. Subjective, all good fights.

I need some time to think this through as you’ve raised some fantastic points....

BTW.... THX TO ALL FOR SOME FUN DISCUSSION/TALKING POINTS DURING ALL THIS SELF-ISOLATION. A glimpse of the future I fear.

[Onetimeonly]

What is your top 15 bruh?

Hmmmm..... maybe top 15 was an overstatement. But, simply in term of who beats who, in their respective primes, at their very best, here it goes:

Ali
Tyson
Lewis
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier
Bowe
Wladmir
Vitali

Ok.... so maybe he’d make top 15, prolly my 11. I don’t think he rates above Wladmir even though he boxed him up. Will give this further thought.

Tyson over holyfield is ridiculous.

[H8Usernames]

There are a few ways to meassure best heavyweight of all time.

1 is who simply beats who and Jack Johnson for example wouldnt ko Wlad and LL.
2 is accomplishment and RJJ for example is not the HW who accomplished most at HW during his brief career at HW
3 could be P4P best HW and RJJr and James Toney could have a high ranking there but some1 like Nicolai Valuev wouldnt go high on that list.
4 you could try to mix these lists up

So for me who beats who is a tossup between LL and Tyson Fury. LL would have anihalted the Fury that showed up for Wilder I as for the 1 that showed up for Wilder II I would have to put my money on TF but with his lack of experience really at HW I dont think that its appropriate to give the #1 position to TF. Prime LL is still probably the HW that wins most often against any other HW, if TF however proves that he is something more than a 1 hit wonder then he may very well take this #1 position some day.

As for Accomplishment thats probably Ali with LL taking second place. Foreman Fraizer Liston Norton etc LL cant match that. TF is very low on the accomplishment list so far.

Now P4P the best HW of all times, this is a hard one could be JT, could be Mike Tyson who was once rated as P4P #1 in the world, RJJr is a weak case with only 1 fight at HW, Ali is also a possible candidate for this position regardless of him having enjoyed a size advantage over most of his opponents, as for Rocky, Dempsey etc I am not familiar enough with the oldtimers to judge. But just considering those mentioned I would have to go with Mike Tyson, Ali was only a P4P fighter of that caliber before he did the vietnam protest and a prime Mike Tyson would probably have beaten that version of Ali. Alot of Tyson Furys success comes from his size and really the man is a bit clumpsy in some ways so he can never legitimately be on any P4P lists.

[BoxFrancis]

What is your top 15 bruh?

Hmmmm..... maybe top 15 was an overstatement. But, simply in term of who beats who, in their respective primes, at their very best, here it goes:

Ali
Tyson
Lewis
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier
Bowe
Wladmir
Vitali

Ok.... so maybe he’d make top 15, prolly my 11. I don’t think he rates above Wladmir even though he boxed him up. Will give this further thought.

Don’t agree with Vitali over Fury I don’t see any elite wins on his record

[BoxFrancis]

How can you not have him in the top 15? Furys two best wins are arguably the two best in hw history. As for Lewis,Bowe,Holyfield and Tyson - Lewis was way to hesitant for me after being knocked out he couldn’t get rid of Holyfield what makes you think he would knock out Fury? Holyfield didn’t punch anywhere hard enough to ‘tear him up. He would of outboxed Bowe using his range and imposing his physicality at times he’s a much bigger man. Of course the Tyson fight would of been class but I’d put my last pound on fury to come through. And for my money if Wladimir couldn’t do anything with Fury then Vitali wouldn’t. Subjective, all good fights.

I need some time to think this through as you’ve raised some fantastic points....

BTW.... THX TO ALL FOR SOME FUN DISCUSSION/TALKING POINTS DURING ALL THIS SELF-ISOLATION. A glimpse of the future I fear.

Cheers mate

[BoxFrancis]

There are a few ways to meassure best heavyweight of all time.

1 is who simply beats who and Jack Johnson for example wouldnt ko Wlad and LL.
2 is accomplishment and RJJ for example is not the HW who accomplished most at HW during his brief career at HW
3 could be P4P best HW and RJJr and James Toney could have a high ranking there but some1 like Nicolai Valuev wouldnt go high on that list.
4 you could try to mix these lists up

So for me who beats who is a tossup between LL and Tyson Fury. LL would have anihalted the Fury that showed up for Wilder I as for the 1 that showed up for Wilder II I would have to put my money on TF but with his lack of experience really at HW I dont think that its appropriate to give the #1 position to TF. Prime LL is still probably the HW that wins most often against any other HW, if TF however proves that he is something more than a 1 hit wonder then he may very well take this #1 position some day.

As for Accomplishment thats probably Ali with LL taking second place. Foreman Fraizer Liston Norton etc LL cant match that. TF is very low on the accomplishment list so far.

Now P4P the best HW of all times, this is a hard one could be JT, could be Mike Tyson who was once rated as P4P #1 in the world, RJJr is a weak case with only 1 fight at HW, Ali is also a possible candidate for this position regardless of him having enjoyed a size advantage over most of his opponents, as for Rocky, Dempsey etc I am not familiar enough with the oldtimers to judge. But just considering those mentioned I would have to go with Mike Tyson, Ali was only a P4P fighter of that caliber before he did the vietnam protest and a prime Mike Tyson would probably have beaten that version of Ali. Alot of Tyson Furys success comes from his size and really the man is a bit clumpsy in some ways so he can never legitimately be on any P4P lists.

It’s difficult to judge but I don’t see any heavyweight past or present beating this version of Fury which is why I asked the question.

[H8Usernames]

It’s difficult to judge but I don’t see any heavyweight past or present beating this version of Fury which is why I asked the question.

What I was trying to get at is that if we are gonna put Fury at #1 in any way at HW is that then its practically at #1 on the One Hit Wonders list but thats one hard list to make cause who gets #1 as the one hit wonder at CW LHW SMW MW etc, its probably not a relevant ranking.

[Onetimeonly]

There are a few ways to meassure best heavyweight of all time.

1 is who simply beats who and Jack Johnson for example wouldnt ko Wlad and LL.
2 is accomplishment and RJJ for example is not the HW who accomplished most at HW during his brief career at HW
3 could be P4P best HW and RJJr and James Toney could have a high ranking there but some1 like Nicolai Valuev wouldnt go high on that list.
4 you could try to mix these lists up

So for me who beats who is a tossup between LL and Tyson Fury. LL would have anihalted the Fury that showed up for Wilder I as for the 1 that showed up for Wilder II I would have to put my money on TF but with his lack of experience really at HW I dont think that its appropriate to give the #1 position to TF. Prime LL is still probably the HW that wins most often against any other HW, if TF however proves that he is something more than a 1 hit wonder then he may very well take this #1 position some day.

As for Accomplishment thats probably Ali with LL taking second place. Foreman Fraizer Liston Norton etc LL cant match that. TF is very low on the accomplishment list so far.

Now P4P the best HW of all times, this is a hard one could be JT, could be Mike Tyson who was once rated as P4P #1 in the world, RJJr is a weak case with only 1 fight at HW, Ali is also a possible candidate for this position regardless of him having enjoyed a size advantage over most of his opponents, as for Rocky, Dempsey etc I am not familiar enough with the oldtimers to judge. But just considering those mentioned I would have to go with Mike Tyson, Ali was only a P4P fighter of that caliber before he did the vietnam protest and a prime Mike Tyson would probably have beaten that version of Ali. Alot of Tyson Furys success comes from his size and really the man is a bit clumpsy in some ways so he can never legitimately be on any P4P lists.

Whom beats whom is an absurd methodology unless you're just down to a coin flip. We're all wrong, all the time. Lewis is much more accomplished than fury.

[bigjack]

Jokes on you if you just completely dismiss it who’s your best? Ali?

C'mon, bruh...you're like 12 years old yes?

12 is being generous mate He can't possibly be serious,and no I don't have Ali as the best ever.

[BoxFrancis]

C'mon, bruh...you're like 12 years old yes?

12 is being generous mate He can't possibly be serious,and no I don't have Ali as the best ever.

Elaborate

[bigjack]

12 is being generous mate He can't possibly be serious,and no I don't have Ali as the best ever.

Elaborate

Can't be bothered,apparently there are more important things going on at the moment

[Loki]

He ended the longest reign in heavyweight history Wladimir held the titles and was unbeaten for 9 years. Furys the biggest and the best I can’t rate these 6’3 240lbs heavyweights above fury because I know they couldn’t beat him. Just my opinion. Before the rematch wilder was the most devestating hitter in history and know after Furys stepped to him and beat him up he’s a bum who couldn’t box. Near enough every previous hw champion was picking Wilder to win the fight. He ain’t no bum he just came unstuck against an elite level fighter.

Dude; you literally sound about 15 years old. There is so much incorrect with this post, I can’t be bothered to comment.

[Loki]

Hmmmm..... maybe top 15 was an overstatement. But, simply in term of who beats who, in their respective primes, at their very best, here it goes:

Ali
Tyson
Lewis
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier
Bowe
Wladmir
Vitali

Ok.... so maybe he’d make top 15, prolly my 11. I don’t think he rates above Wladmir even though he boxed him up. Will give this further thought.

Don’t agree with Vitali over Fury I don’t see any elite wins on his record

Doesn’t matter. Unless they fight and in their prime, it’s impossible to tell.

In my view, Vitali in his prime clinically takes Fury apart.

[gilgamesh]

Don’t agree with Vitali over Fury I don’t see any elite wins on his record

Doesn’t matter. Unless they fight and in their prime, it’s impossible to tell.

In my view, Vitali in his prime clinically takes Fury apart.

I can't imagine he'd just stand, and look at him for 12 rounds like Wlad did, but I don't see him clinically taking Fury apart either. Or winning at all for that matter.

[Enlightened-One]

Klitschko held the titles for 4,382 days it’s the longest reign in heavyweight history mate.

4382 sounds like all days he held a title (and sounds a bit high to me). A reign is non-stop. You might want to check Joe Louis.

Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

Retired as champion, but made an unsuccessful comeback against Ezzard Charles on the 27th September 1950.

[gilgamesh]

4382 sounds like all days he held a title (and sounds a bit high to me). A reign is non-stop. You might want to check Joe Louis.

14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis: 22/06/1937 unti 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

One other thing to note though, is at the time Wlad first held the WBO Title, it hadn't yet risen to prominence as one of the "Big 4" sanctioning bodies.

When I first started following the sport (which was right around the time Wlad "the heir apparent" was all the rage, and was currently in the midst of this WBO reign) the WBO wasn't considered to be an equivalent title to the IBF, WBA and WBC.

It was gradually building steam, but it didn't really fully seem to take off, and start being seen as equal to the other sanctioning bodies until around 2002.

Personally, I'm sorry it ever started to being seen that way. Nothing against any of the fighters that ever held it, it's just we already had 2 World Championships too many, and now we have 3.

Joe Louis on the other hand was the one and only Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World during all 4,270 of those days.

[polecateddy]

These discussions always seem to be Wlad this and Wlad that. To my mind the generations before Wlad were much better fighters, with Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, etc. With a few exceptions the Wlad and beyond generations are pretty weak. I’d think it be fair to say that a fighter as weak on the fundamentals as Wilder, would not have got much past danger man status in other eras. Yes Fury is a terrific heavyweight. No of course he isn’t the best ever :)

[gilgamesh]

These discussions always seem to be Wlad this and Wlad that. To my mind the generations before Wlad were much better fighters, with Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, etc. With a few exceptions the Wlad and beyond generations are pretty weak. I’d think it be fair to say that a fighter as weak on the fundamentals as Wilder, would not have got much past danger man status in other eras. Yes Fury is a terrific heavyweight. No of course he isn’t the best ever :)

I think you mean the Wlad and beyond generation singular, because we haven't yet gotten 2 generations beyond him.

But yeah I don't think many would consider him one of the best ever. He might be Top 10 on some lists, but that's a stretch.

He had one of the longest reigns ever though so that's something worth nothing I guess.

[Enlightened-One]

14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis: 22/06/1937 unti 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

One other thing to note though, is at the time Wlad first held the WBO Title, it hadn't yet risen to prominence as one of the "Big 4" sanctioning bodies.

When I first started following the sport (which was right around the time Wlad "the heir apparent" was all the rage, and was currently in the midst of this WBO reign) the WBO wasn't considered to be an equivalent title to the IBF, WBA and WBC.

It was gradually building steam, but it didn't really fully seem to take off, and start being seen as equal to the other sanctioning bodies until around 2002.

Personally, I'm sorry it ever started to being seen that way. Nothing against any of the fighters that ever held it, it's just we already had 2 World Championships too many, and now we have 3.

Joe Louis on the other hand was the one and only Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World during all 4,270 of those days.

To a certain extent I agree with you, but the WBO world heavyweight title was moderately prestigious, since the likes of Ray Mercer, Michael Moorer, Tommy Morrison, Riddick Bowe and Vitali Klitschko had all previously held the belt prior to Klitschko’s reign.

Also, both Chris Byrd and Wladimir were both universally considered top-ten world-rated heavyweights at the time of their fight.

Finally, there were multiple versions of the world heavyweight title during Joe Louis’ reign. Jack Sharkey fought for three versions when he faced Primo Carnera in 1933. And there were two versions on the line for several of Joe’s fights, until he was stripped of his NYSAC belt for the second Max Schmeling bout.

I actually think there might have been four versions, because I believe there was a British-based world title also. If I have the time, I'll find it.