Heavyweights : Tyson Fury vs. Sonnie Liston

[Ambling Alp II]

Fury's best win is miles better than the Liston's.

I'm guessing you are talking about Wilder, since he has nothing else. I know you never liked Liston, but he beat Patterson, Williams, Folley, and Machen.

[Ambling Alp II]

I love all these Fury threads. Bloke‘s a living legend.

This has gotton ridiculous.

[margaret thatcher]

It sure has, Cleveland 'Sweet Pea' Williams

[Seamus]

I think Liston was good Alp, but in the past on here, he was rated ridiculously high. Guys on here had him stopping Lennox, Tyson, Frazier, etc. That's a guy who's best wins were over Patterson

[margaret thatcher]

Mate, anyone who can find the target on Cleveland 'Will o Wisp' Williams must be an incredibly skillful boxer who could play with the likes of those guys

[Ambling Alp II]

As opposed to the dazzling footwork of Tyson Fury.

[margaret thatcher]

Not everyone (and I mean, not anyone lol) can have the silky smooth defense and moves of Clev 'Untouchable' Williams. Ya, no one was reaching at all there

[Ambling Alp II]

I think Liston was good Alp, but in the past on here, he was rated ridiculously high. Guys on here had him stopping Lennox, Tyson, Frazier, etc. That's a guy who's best wins were over Patterson

I have seen Liston rated all over the place. I think he is just outside the top 10. There is no way that Tyson Fury is anywhere near that.
Yes the best Liston beat was Patterson. The only fighter in his era better was Ali. Williams, Machen, and Folley were all good fighters.
Fury has the big win over Wilder and wins over people that have pulse. His only other fights worth mentioning are the draw with Wilder and an unimpressive win against an old Klitschko.
Do you really think Liston would struggle with an ancient Wladimir Klitschko?

[oogiebe]

Fury's best win is miles better than the Liston's.

He never proved himself vs a defensive wiz like Cleveland Williams though

I still can't get over that comment.

[margaret thatcher]

He never proved himself vs a defensive wiz like Cleveland Williams though

I still can't get over that comment.

If it was anyone other than alp saying it I'd just assume they were joking

But knowing him, I'm sure all those scrubs 'Slick' Willy beat would all be undisputed champs today too

[oogiebe]

I still can't get over that comment.

If it was anyone other than alp saying it I'd just assume they were joking

I think Williams thought avoiding a punch was illegal.

[margaret thatcher]

[DrDuke]

Fury has the big win over Wilder and wins over people that have pulse. His only other fights worth mentioning are the draw with Wilder and an unimpressive win against an old Klitschko.
Do you really think Liston would struggle with an ancient Wladimir Klitschko?

Yeah, old Klitschko, who was reinging over the division for 10 years, who had been outclassing everyone he met during that reign.

And where the hell Fury was struggling with Klitschko?

[oogiebe]

Fury has the big win over Wilder and wins over people that have pulse. His only other fights worth mentioning are the draw with Wilder and an unimpressive win against an old Klitschko.
Do you really think Liston would struggle with an ancient Wladimir Klitschko?

Yeah, old Klitschko, who was reinging over the division for 10 years, who had been outclassing everyone he met during that reign.

And where the hell Fury was struggling with Klitschko?

Fury/Wlad was closer than revisionists remember. It was also the worst HW championship fight I've ever seen. 8 punches per round.

[margaret thatcher]

It was 9-3/8-4 for TGK, rounds obviously had not much in them but he was still clearly winning most and he fought it like a match to nick points, which obviously worked, really as boring as it was it is kinda ridiculous to act like it doesn't count, especially if you're one of those who jizz to the likes of JJ hugging middleweights or beating guys off for 6 years

I also know some people give far more credit and are more impressed by actually losing every round while doing nothing, let's be honest

[DrDuke]

Yeah, old Klitschko, who was reinging over the division for 10 years, who had been outclassing everyone he met during that reign.

And where the hell Fury was struggling with Klitschko?

Fury/Wlad was closer than revisionists remember. It was also the worst HW championship fight I've ever seen. 8 punches per round.

It was pretty confident Fury's win. Nothing close, Fury clearly edged the fight. I wouldn't call it a bad fight either. When I was watching it live, I was being excited alone from the fact, that Fury was outboxing Klitschko. It was something completely new, unseen before.

[oogiebe]

It was 9-3/8-4 for TGK, rounds obviously had not much in them but he was still clearly winning most and he fought it like a match to nick points, which obviously worked, really as boring as it was it is kinda ridiculous to act like it doesn't count, especially if you're one of those who jizz to the likes of JJ hugging middleweights or beating guys off for 6 years

I also know some people give far more credit and are more impressed by actually losing every round while doing nothing, let's be honest

You ARE one of those posters.
Clearly Fury won the Wlad fight, but it was unspectacular. Wlad was at the end of his sell by date or past it. Jack Johnson never looked like an ATG in any of the limited vids I've seen. My only fond memory is JJ wiping the teeth from his gloves vs the Michigan Assasin. (all 160 LBS of him).

[oogiebe]

Fury/Wlad was closer than revisionists remember. It was also the worst HW championship fight I've ever seen. 8 punches per round.

It was pretty confident Fury's win. Nothing close, Fury clearly edged the fight. I wouldn't call it a bad fight either. When I was watching it live, I was being excited alone from the fact, that Fury was outboxing Klitschko. It was something completely new, unseen before.

LOL! Doesn't "Edging" imply close?
You love TGK. I have my favs too.

[Ambling Alp II]

I still can't get over that comment.

If it was anyone other than alp saying it I'd just assume they were joking

But knowing him, I'm sure all those scrubs 'Slick' Willy beat would all be undisputed champs today too

Williams would have won some WBS title or another. Never said Williams was that slick. Just said Fury was not more elusive. You don't get hit a lot when the other guy doesn't throw punches.
Fury 'edged" an ancient Klitschko and won 1 of 2 fights against Wilder. Got decked twice by Wilder in the first fight. How "elusive". What a legend.

He is a decent fighter. He is nowhere near the level of Sonny Liston.

[margaret thatcher]

You want to talk about getting decked, slick Willy was a master at that

That's like, 25 knockdowns in his career and being rocked a sh!tload of other times? Ya so elusive, it's not like you got caught talking utter complete bollocks

[DrDuke]

It was pretty confident Fury's win. Nothing close, Fury clearly edged the fight. I wouldn't call it a bad fight either. When I was watching it live, I was being excited alone from the fact, that Fury was outboxing Klitschko. It was something completely new, unseen before.

LOL! Doesn't "Edging" imply close?
You love TGK. I have my favs too.

I meant, that his win was clear and undoubtfully in his favor.

[Ambling Alp II]

You want to talk about getting decked, slick Willy was a master at that

That's like, 25 knockdowns in his career and being rocked a sh!tload of other times? Ya so elusive, it's not like you got caught talking utter complete bollocks

He was an offensive fighter that went toe to toe. Obviously he was going to take more shots (and land more) than a guy like Fury who throws 30 punches a round fighting another guy that does the same. But do you really think that Williams wasn't capable of moving around the ring as easily as Fury? Of course he was.

You do realize that most of these knockdowns were when he was well past his prime. From 1956-1965, Williams was only stopped twice... both times by Sonny Liston. The guy we are talking about.....

[margaret thatcher]

lol, you were the one making it about knockdowns bruh, but leave it to good ol consistent, fair alp to rag on Fury for like a couple kds but leave out 'Will o wisp' Williams 25 kd obsessession with kissing canvas

Fury was easily more elusive than Williams, however he decides to fight, it is laughable that you even mentioned slick Clev in that respect, anyone else says that and we'd think it was just a joke but with you it's as simple as Clev being the older generation guy

It's not even the kds though, Williams got hurt and tee'd off on loads of other times he wasn't down. He blocked with his face and was defensively about as primitatve as they come. bIZARRE even for you of historical fundementalism to mention him

[Ambling Alp II]

Wasn't really making it about the knockdowns; just pointed out the elusive Fury getting decked twice by Wilder. Thought that was fair game.
Since you have followed Williams career quite closely, who outside of Liston, knocked down Williams when he was in his prime?
I'm sure that is quite a long list.

[margaret thatcher]

Lol, you said Williams was more elusive, then use Fury getting dropped as part of your argument. Um, talk about only looking at one side of it when big slick Clev was down 25 times, hurt every other round, and could barely avoid a punch lol. But that's just alp for you, criticize one guy for something but excuse it for the other guy, who always happens to be an older fighter

Williams was dropped plenty at every stage of his career. It's baffling why you chose him as a guy more elusive than Fury, he was a caveman and wasn't even close to the most elusive Liston fought. But he fought in the right time, and that's really what matters for 'ambling alp'