Wilder - was he the last Great Black Hope?

[candyslim]

Jared Anderson and Roney Hines in the longer term look decent young prospects who have mobility and can box. I might have added Marlo Moore but I don't know what's happened to him. Anyone know anything about Amron Sands?
I have doubts about the potential of Darmani Rock.

There are a few others looked promising but seem to have run out of ambition. Stephan Shaw, Nicholas Mazurek, Cassius Chaney, Marcus Carter to name just a few. I don't know a lot about these guys which I think is symptomatic of the problem.

Former good amateurs from what used to be the Soviet Union are by and large tough and experienced. They are almost exclusively the wrong side of thirty though, whereas kids like Anderson have years in which to develop.

From where I'm sat the situation doesn't seem as dire as it's painted, but then I'm just a limey - WTF would I know about US prospects compared to you guys? C'mon Oogie, Tony and Co. I need ejjercating !

To keep it simple: I'm a fan of Anderson, but it's way too early. Love his jab and body work though, and he looks fairly polished. Hines is going nowhere. Shaw has potential to be a decent stepping stone. Chaney is crap. Moton has drawn interest, but he's short and a bad body so as he moves up he'll get exposed I'm sure. Sands got beat in some tourney that isn't on his record and he doesn't look the part if you can find a vid on him. Darmani Rock doesn't have the drive necessary to be a decent fighter, but he seems to have some skills. It's a very short list right now. Torres will be one to watch if/when he turns pro. Overall I'm more excited about Makhmudov; Dubs; Sirenko; Vianello; and still Ajagba.

I agree completely re Anderson. He looks the part and he's only 20.

I wouldn't write off Roney when he's still pretty young but he ought not to still be fighting 4 rounders so I see why you say that.

Shaw has been a pro for nearly 7 years and should be moving a lot faster. His last fight was a good win against Greg Corbin so maybe that's the start of him stepping up.

I wouldn't say Chaney is crap but he's been around a while now and his best wins are probably Joel Caudle and Nick Jones. He needs to move up if he wants to avoid being dismissed in such terms.

Moton? Motown? Detroit? Michegan? Franklin?. I didn't mention him because he isn't impressing me at all. Points victories over average opposition including a split vote vs Slug Forrest. Not too inspiring is it?

Sands? Pro tourney? I know nothing about that.

Rock should be fighting a higher level of opposition by now and I think he would have been if he had anything about him.

Torres turned pro fairly recently. The reason I didn't mention him, nor Sonny Conto was that he's not black. Yeah I know, I did mention Mazurek didn't I.

[Steel City]

Gassiev has just moved up? From what? Losing a unanimous decision and being idle?

What ever happened to the great Tom Schwarz? Glaskov was a great prospect until he lost to his knee.

You have a lot of Assuming going on up there. ^

Losing a unanimous decision to arguably the P4P number 1 in OLeksandr Usyk an exceptional fighter in the World series final a unification fight for all the belts . Yeah that was his loss!

Vast Majority of the list I made were top amateurs! It'd take me too long to list all the medals they won in the amateurs.

[Steel City]

Tbh , Anderson seems like the only good American prospect atm.

I don't rate Jared Anderson personally from the couple of fights I've seen. He reminds me of a Heavyweight version of Ohara Davies .

[Enlightened-One]

There are plenty of young(ish) unbeaten American prospects, many of whom are black, but I don’t think any of them are as good as the following prospects?

• Daniel Dubois
• Evgenyi Romanov
• Vladyslav Sirenko
• Efe Ajagba
• Arslanbek Makhmudov
• Filip Hrgović
• Ivan Dychko
• Tony Yoka
• Magomedrasul Medzhidov

When Wilder inevitably loses the rematch to Tyson Fury, I feel that America will quickly lose interest in the heavyweight division again.

The titles will be owned by European, Central Asian and Eastern European countries for the foreseeable future.

[gilgamesh]

Unless the sport ceases to exist, there's never a "Last Hope" of anything. A new fighter can always emerge from we don't know where, and he could be any race. Such is life.

[gilgamesh]

There are plenty of young(ish) unbeaten American prospects, many of whom are black, but I don’t think any of them are as good as the following prospects?

• Daniel Dubois
• Evgenyi Romanov
• Vladyslav Sirenko
• Efe Ajagba
• Arslanbek Makhmudov
• Filip Hrgović
• Ivan Dychko
• Tony Yoka
• Magomedrasul Medzhidov

When Wilder inevitably loses the rematch to Tyson Fury, I feel that America will quickly lose interest in the heavyweight division again.

The titles will be owned by European, Central Asian and Eastern European countries for the foreseeable future.

Hell based on the reaction of the crowd Fury is more popular in Vegas than Wilder is.

[pound per pound]

Why am I typing in this thread? The term great white hope came in a time when women could not vote, and Black people were treated poorly, with the heavyweight champion of the times being Jack Johnson, who was black.

Johnson was a very brash man. He dated and married white women and had his share of troubles with domestic abuse and possibly pimping prostitution.

Society wanted him out. The men best suited to beat Johnson at the time were other black contenders, but Johnson would not offer them a shot at his title. Instead, Johnson fought a few white guys, none of who were good heavyweights. Some of them were middleweights.

Finally, society goaded James J Jeffries, who retired undefeated six years ago to face Johnson. Jeffries was six years into retirement. He was fat, old, and rusty when he finally returned to the ring. None of that mattered as people thought he would de-throne Johnson. Hence he became the great white hope, based on who he was in his prime, and society's investment of hope to beat him.

Society has evolved away from the term, white hope. I'll settle for a " boxing hope " and getting back to normal as this Covid-19 is the one who needs to be knocked ASAP.

- p4p

[Tony1244]

Why am I typing in this thread? The term great white hope came in a time when women could not vote, and Black people were treated poorly, with the heavyweight champion of the times being Jack Johnson, who was black.

Johnson was a very brash man. He dated and married white women and had his share of troubles with domestic abuse and possibly pimping prostitution.

Society wanted him out. The men best suited to beat Johnson at the time were other black contenders, but Johnson would not offer them a shot at his title. Instead, Johnson fought a few white guys, none of who were good heavyweights. Some of them were middleweights.

Finally, society goaded James J Jeffries, who retired undefeated six years ago to face Johnson. Jeffries was six years into retirement. He was fat, old, and rusty when he finally returned to the ring. None of that mattered as people thought he would de-throne Johnson. Hence he became the great white hope, based on who he was in his prime, and society's investment of hope to beat him.

Society has evolved away from the term, white hope. I'll settle for a " boxing hope " and getting back to normal as this Covid-19 is the one who needs to be knocked ASAP.

- p4p

[Tony1244]

Tbh , Anderson seems like the only good American prospect atm.

I don't rate Jared Anderson personally from the couple of fights I've seen. He reminds me of a Heavyweight version of Ohara Davies .

You confuse your cheerleading with reality.

[candyslim]

Fine post that p4p.

[Enlightened-One]

Why am I typing in this thread? The term great white hope came in a time when women could not vote, and Black people were treated poorly, with the heavyweight champion of the times being Jack Johnson, who was black.

Johnson was a very brash man. He dated and married white women and had his share of troubles with domestic abuse and possibly pimping prostitution.

Society wanted him out. The men best suited to beat Johnson at the time were other black contenders, but Johnson would not offer them a shot at his title. Instead, Johnson fought a few white guys, none of who were good heavyweights. Some of them were middleweights.

Finally, society goaded James J Jeffries, who retired undefeated six years ago to face Johnson. Jeffries was six years into retirement. He was fat, old, and rusty when he finally returned to the ring. None of that mattered as people thought he would de-throne Johnson. Hence he became the great white hope, based on who he was in his prime, and society's investment of hope to beat him.

Society has evolved away from the term, white hope. I'll settle for a " boxing hope " and getting back to normal as this Covid-19 is the one who needs to be knocked ASAP.

- p4p

The thread was created by a poster quoting the thoughts of Larry Merchant, who is an elderly man that is on the cusp of turning ninety years of age. The former commentator is simply a product of his generation.

I think he’s simply unintentionally politically incorrect rather than being racist or bigoted.

I agree with your sentiments though, but I do think that old people should be allowed to get away with saying things that most of us can’t.

[Steel City]

Why am I typing in this thread?

I think you've posted in the wrong thread here.

[Steel City]

Joe Louis' book was called 'The Great Black Hope'

It's a good read actually

[Steel City]

I don't rate Jared Anderson personally from the couple of fights I've seen. He reminds me of a Heavyweight version of Ohara Davies .

You confuse your cheerleading with reality.

Do you seriously rate Jared Anderson as high as the likes of Usyk, Hrgovic, Gassiev, Makhmudov, Jalolov, Majidov, Sirenko, Dychko, Vykhrst, Dubois

If you do, you are the deluded one. Trust me.

[Tony1244]

Why am I typing in this thread? The term great white hope came in a time when women could not vote, and Black people were treated poorly, with the heavyweight champion of the times being Jack Johnson, who was black.

Johnson was a very brash man. He dated and married white women and had his share of troubles with domestic abuse and possibly pimping prostitution.

Society wanted him out. The men best suited to beat Johnson at the time were other black contenders, but Johnson would not offer them a shot at his title. Instead, Johnson fought a few white guys, none of who were good heavyweights. Some of them were middleweights.

Finally, society goaded James J Jeffries, who retired undefeated six years ago to face Johnson. Jeffries was six years into retirement. He was fat, old, and rusty when he finally returned to the ring. None of that mattered as people thought he would de-throne Johnson. Hence he became the great white hope, based on who he was in his prime, and society's investment of hope to beat him.

Society has evolved away from the term, white hope. I'll settle for a " boxing hope " and getting back to normal as this Covid-19 is the one who needs to be knocked ASAP.

- p4p

The thread was created by a poster quoting the thoughts of Larry Merchant, who is an elderly man that is on the cusp of turning ninety years of age. The former commentator is simply a product of his generation.

I think he’s simply unintentionally politically incorrect rather than being racist or bigoted.

I agree with your sentiments though, but I do think that old people should be allowed to get away with saying things that most of us can’t.

Agree. Just think Larry was trying to be ironic.

[Tony1244]

You confuse your cheerleading with reality.

Do you seriously rate Jared Anderson as high as the likes of Usyk, Hrgovic, Gassiev, Makhmudov, Jalolov, Majidov, Sirenko, Dychko, Vykhrst, Dubois

If you do, you are the deluded one. Trust me.

Guessing future greats is a fool's errand. No one knows. But I'll guess anyway. ) From the little of seen of the above, I'd go with Usyk, Anderson, Sirenko, and Dubois. Dychko has a perfect record, but I haven't seen him.

[candyslim]

The kid is only 20, little more than a boy. Of course he is not going to be comparable with the Balolovs and Majidovs but they are close to their potential, whereas Anderson could be a decade short of his peak.

[oogiebe]

The kid is only 20, little more than a boy. Of course he is not going to be comparable with the Balolovs and Majidovs but they are close to their potential, whereas Anderson could be a decade short of his peak.

Excited about Jared's prospects, but we can't rate him after only three fights and being so young.

[Tony1244]

There is almost always more than one reason for something. I'd say the lack of interest in boxing in the US is even a bigger reason than the inflated sports team salaries. Of course, this takes nothing away from the success in Europe and the amazing improvement in UK boxers.

[candyslim]

The kid is only 20, little more than a boy. Of course he is not going to be comparable with the Balolovs and Majidovs but they are close to their potential, whereas Anderson could be a decade short of his peak.

Excited about Jared's prospects, but we can't rate him after only three fights and being so young.

No of course not but it will be fun to watch his journey same as all the others mentioned on this thread and others.

Unfortunately the journey has stalled for the moment, but hopefully it will be underway again sooner rather than later.

[Steel City]

There is almost always more than one reason for something. I'd say the lack of interest in boxing in the US is even a bigger reason than the inflated sports team salaries. Of course, this takes nothing away from the success in Europe and the amazing improvement in UK boxers.

USA get everything on a plate. There's 322 current active USA heavyweights, which is more than all of eastern europe combined! USA fighters have all the best coaches, facilities, all the amateurs have the opportunity to turn pro,loads of TV channels show boxing, loads of promoters, etc. If your good enough and you work hard enough it's all there for you to suceed in America.

So I think there can't be any excuses, they just aren't good enough. ALL countries have sports which are more popular than boxing and that pay more, that stupid excuse has been laughed at and dismissed many times.

[Steel City]

People often say the reason American black heavyweight dominance is gone is because of nfl and nba. This I think is BS. NFL and NBA have always been big. There are also plenty of black American heavies, there just not good enough. It’s more that the rest of the world caught up. Bare in mind in the old days the whole eastern block and Cuba didn’t go pro. Also people around the world are getting bigger cos of nutrition, Training and PEDS. The boxing world is properly global - all that ‘you have to make it in USA to be great ‘ has always been BS anyway - why do Americans always get the advantage of sitting at home?

I like the modern boxing picture- who would of thought the P4P would be a Ginger? And a Mexican lol? Or that China would win a silver at super heavy? Or that U.K. would be so dominant at heavyweight? Or that so many too because would be white/ eastern? I didn’t. I would never imagined a man like Tyson Fury would be best -U.K. heavies esp white ones like Richard Dunn were always a bit of a joke back in the day. We had to import lewis from Jamaica via Canada

Yeah Exactly, But if you did your research or followed the amateur game knowing how many medals the Soviet union won in the amateurs, you would have known the second they were allowed to turn pro they were gonna make a strong impact.
Black UK heavyweights were seen as a joke too before Joshua, remember the Skelton/Sprott/Audley Harrison/ Danny Wlliams days

[Tony1244]

There is almost always more than one reason for something. I'd say the lack of interest in boxing in the US is even a bigger reason than the inflated sports team salaries. Of course, this takes nothing away from the success in Europe and the amazing improvement in UK boxers.

USA get everything on a plate. There's 322 current active USA heavyweights, which is more than all of eastern europe combined! USA fighters have all the best coaches, facilities, all the amateurs have the opportunity to turn pro,loads of TV channels show boxing, loads of promoters, etc. If your good enough and you work hard enough it's all there for you to suceed in America.

So I think there can't be any excuses, they just aren't good enough. ALL countries have sports which are more popular than boxing and that pay more, that stupid excuse has been laughed at and dismissed many times.

If you think that "pay" isn't an incentive, there is nothing I can do, or will do, to educate someone online. That's simply unbelievable. You may be the only person on the planet that doesn't believe money isn't an incentive. Hopefully you are.

There are very few boxing gyms in America. How many current fighter there are is completely irrelevant. Most states have virtually no license requirements.

[Tony1244]

People often say the reason American black heavyweight dominance is gone is because of nfl and nba. This I think is BS. NFL and NBA have always been big. There are also plenty of black American heavies, there just not good enough. It’s more that the rest of the world caught up. Bare in mind in the old days the whole eastern block and Cuba didn’t go pro. Also people around the world are getting bigger cos of nutrition, Training and PEDS. The boxing world is properly global - all that ‘you have to make it in USA to be great ‘ has always been BS anyway - why do Americans always get the advantage of sitting at home?

I like the modern boxing picture- who would of thought the P4P would be a Ginger? And a Mexican lol? Or that China would win a silver at super heavy? Or that U.K. would be so dominant at heavyweight? Or that so many too because would be white/ eastern? I didn’t. I would never imagined a man like Tyson Fury would be best -U.K. heavies esp white ones like Richard Dunn were always a bit of a joke back in the day. We had to import lewis from Jamaica via Canada

Yeah Exactly, But if you did your research or followed the amateur game knowing how many medals the Soviet union won in the amateurs, you would have known the second they were allowed to turn pro they were gonna make a strong impact.
Black UK heavyweights were seen as a joke too before Joshua, remember the Skelton/Sprott/Audley Harrison/ Danny Wlliams days

Ok, why are 18/25 of these top ranked HWs from North America or the UK? Why is Eastern Europe still so bad?

https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r%5Bcount ... 5D=a&r_go=

[margaret thatcher]

Kids are dreamers, if money is their concern (and i doubt it is nearly as much as you seem to think in taking up a sport) they can still fantasize about Mayweather style,#1 in all sports paydays.,tell us what other sport 100m for 1 contest is happening