Is Fury the best heavyweight of all time?

[candyslim]

I had one of those once. Didn't last long though

[margaret thatcher]

IMO you have to take them as given. Scaling guys up in size is just as ridiculous as giving guys more of another attribute they didn't have. You are then comparing fighters that never existed (like some fantasy 6'2 220 Marciano) to those that did, and also ranking them on stuff that never was there. Plus we all know those little HWs would be playing football or basketball if they were in fact taller and bigger and in the usa today right lol jk jk

What exactly is the formula for determining 'modern' size anyway? Like is this Jack Johnson who never existed 6'7, 6'5, 6'3 or whatever? 250, 240, 230? Do you make him slower too? How big is the 5'7 160s guy he beat to become champ? Plus, while people OVERALL have gotten taller, etc..it doesn't mean it would translate for specific individuals. A guy like Marciano may just be fighting at LHW today....like an Italian American Beterbiev...rather than being some blown up legit HW sized version of who he ACTUALLY WAS.

Should we be ranking SRR as a cruiser or something too?

[margaret thatcher]

Another thing is that feeling the need to give old timers these fantasy upgrades and bone lengthening surgeries actually concedes the shortcomings of their times, it's actually a bit of a knock on them as they were

What if Tyson Fury was a super middleweight more like the size of his brother ? Then how would he do? What about a Qawi who was long and lean and not a stubby shorty? Fun to add another layer to the imagination isn't it

[BoxFrancis]

That's an ongoing thing with historical discussions, people forget the lacklustre showings of everyone but the last guy. Joe Louis gets ranked as 1 or 2 but got dropped hard on his ass by lard arse Tony G for example, and I think several other times vs not the greatest opponents. It happens for hypotheticals too, everyone is so committed to acting like all these fights would've had one guy kicking the others ass--one guy getting battered and being out of his league, and the other giving a nasty superior beating. Yet look at all the ho hum performances even the greats had

I sure wouldn't rank Fury way up their historically, but then again if people are gonna treat guys like middleweight basher Johnson or Marciano (19 inches shorter reach lol) or Liston as elite ATgs he's not so far off then

Getting put over means nothing imo it’s how you respond once your up

[ewenhay]

Exactly.

All the greats were floored at one time or another.

[margaret thatcher]

Exactly, people read too much into blips here and there, everyone pretty much has them, even greats vs not very great opponents. People often forget it when it comes to the established greats though. Just like they forget the lacklustre showings which are usually at least in as great as number as the standout ones.

[ewenhay]

I'd rather a fighter fought the best of his generation and lost a few than kept his '0' against sub par opposition any day of the week

[adislav123]

Exactly.

All the greats were floored at one time or another.

George CHUVALO, Obie WALKER (almost completly forgotten "colored world heavyweight champion, 5' 8" 220 pound powerhouse, naturally heavier set, stronger than tyson & tua, damn! would i've liked to see him fight!) were never put down.

walker reportedly not even stopped on his feet in over 90+ official bouts.

the "losses" he had in europe were unfair decisions where the hometown hero got the W solely for enduring the beating applied by walker while still on their feet.

as some may not consider them "greats", they are infact much more than great, pure mutterfvckin' magnificence, LEGENDS.

[candyslim]

IMO you have to take them as given. Scaling guys up in size is just as ridiculous as giving guys more of another attribute they didn't have. You are then comparing fighters that never existed (like some fantasy 6'2 220 Marciano) to those that did, and also ranking them on stuff that never was there. Plus we all know those little HWs would be playing football or basketball if they were in fact taller and bigger and in the usa today right lol jk jk

What exactly is the formula for determining 'modern' size anyway? Like is this Jack Johnson who never existed 6'7, 6'5, 6'3 or whatever? 250, 240, 230? Do you make him slower too? How big is the 5'7 160s guy he beat to become champ? Plus, while people OVERALL have gotten taller, etc..it doesn't mean it would translate for specific individuals. A guy like Marciano may just be fighting at LHW today....like an Italian American Beterbiev...rather than being some blown up legit HW sized version of who he ACTUALLY WAS.

Should we be ranking SRR as a cruiser or something too?

This is an illustration of why it is best to avoid comparisons of fighters from different eras. It is unfair to heavyweights of the past to match them with the present day behemoths, when most were small cruiserweights or lighter.

A middleweight is still a middleweight but even then it's an impossible task and disrespectful to some great champions. There's nothing to be gained. It's very hard not to speculate though.

S'funny though. I have posted in the past about a mythical modern day Marciano and 6' 2" 220lbs were the exact dimensions I attributed to him. Strange we should both hit on the same numbers. Can you imagine it though? I often wistfully think about how much I'd like to see a clone of Tommy Morrison in the hwt division today, but can you imagine a super family-size Marciano? Wouldn't that be a mouth-watering prospect !

[Wee Tommy]

The weight argument in relation to modern/old timers is the only one that makes any sense because we understand now in this day and age how to add muscle to a frame. Marciano trained his weight down, he didn’t try and bulk up. Look at the swinging tits on some heavies today. Marciano would rip those things off

[Enlightened-One]

The weight argument in relation to modern/old timers is the only one that makes any sense because we understand now in this day and age how to add muscle to a frame. Marciano trained his weight down, he didn’t try and bulk up. Look at the swinging tits on some heavies today. Marciano would rip those things off

Rocky Marciano (5′ 10½″ 185lbs)

The rehydration weights (the ring weights) for many supermiddleweights and light heavyweights is in the region of 185lbs.

However, these guys would almost certainly be much heavier if they didn’t have to achieve an official weight beforehand.

In fact, the likes of Kell Brook, Errol Spence Jr., Terence Crawford, Lamont Peterson etc., who are all welterweights, weigh close to the 180lbs mark between bouts.

The average height & weight of modern-day heavyweights is in the region of 6′ 4½″ 247lbs.

I’m sorry, but as great as Rocky Marciano may have been in his own heyday, he wouldn’t be competitive against today’s heavyweights.

In fact, if Rocky was competing today (in his physical prime), he’d probably be campaigning in one of the weight classes between 160lbs to 168lbs.

Size on its own might not necessarily be the be all and end all, but it’s a massively influential factor. So "size really does matter", because if it didn’t, there wouldn’t be any need for weight classes.

[Heretic]

Fury beat Wladimir who had defended heavyweight world titles 26 times, was the longest reigning champion in heavyweight history (most consecutive days) and stood right in front’ of the biggest puncher in heavyweight history Deontay Wilder backed him up and smashed’ him to bits. Is there a heavyweight past or present who would of gotten the better of Fury? Wilder was close in the first bout but not close enough. I think Mike Tyson could of gave him trouble early on but outside of that I don’t see any problems for Fury. Ability wise he’s the best heavyweight ever.

Welcome to the world of boxing.

It can be confusing at first but don't worry you will learn eventually.

Heaps of entertainment to be had. All the drama and great stories.

Enjoy

[BoxFrancis]

TBE is bogus really esp with heavyweight. But if you were to just time travel Fury into any era, he would of beaten almost all. Even Ali. Too big and too good for all but a few modern heavies

It’s not rocket science is it pal

[Duran1970]

Ali would toy with fury ... Mismatch really

[margaret thatcher]

The weight argument in relation to modern/old timers is the only one that makes any sense because we understand now in this day and age how to add muscle to a frame. Marciano trained his weight down, he didn’t try and bulk up. Look at the swinging tits on some heavies today. Marciano would rip those things off

Rocky Marciano (5′ 10½″ 185lbs)

The rehydration weights (the ring weights) for many supermiddleweights and light heavyweights is in the region of 185lbs.

However, these guys would almost certainly be much heavier if they didn’t have to achieve an official weight beforehand.

In fact, the likes of Kell Brook, Errol Spence Jr., Terence Crawford, Lamont Peterson etc., who are all welterweights, weigh close to the 180lbs mark between bouts.

The average height & weight of modern-day heavyweights is in the region of 6′ 4½″ 247lbs.

I’m sorry, but as great as Rocky Marciano may have been in his own heyday, he wouldn’t be competitive against today’s heavyweights.

In fact, if Rocky was competing today (in his physical prime), he’d probably be campaigning in one of the weight classes between 160lbs to 168lbs.

Size on its own might not necessarily be the be all and end all, but it’s a massively influential factor. So "size really does matter", because if it didn’t, there wouldn’t be any need for weight classes.

Ya, it's quite striking just how small these guys were. I'm not a size fundementalist, but with a lot of these old timers you are talking huge differences. Marciano 5'10 and 185 fight day, Johnson 'the giant' 6 feet and in the 180s, etc.

Now look at Joe Smith and Sully Barrera for their light heavy fight: 6'1 190 and 6'2 187. You 6 foot middleweights like Danny Jacobs weighing around 180 on fight night too.

Today we would scoff at guys like Fury/AJ/Wilder deciding to fight the likes of Joe Smith or Danny Jacobs, but the reality was a guy like that is the same size that 'legit' hws used to be. Jack Johnson actually won the world hw title vs a 5'7 160s opponent! Imagine Fury vs Danny Garcia lol

[margaret thatcher]

Well, one thing I will say, is that Cleveland Williams was harder to hit than any HW around today

[candyslim]

Ali would toy with fury ... Mismatch really

I owe my love of boxing to Muhammad Ali I was sucked into all the fanfare leading up to the first fight with Joe Frazier, so I have massive regard for him and would tentatively put him forward as the best of all time. Biased? Maybe, it's probably attributable to his impact on my formative years as a fan.

So having declared as an Ali fan, I would have to say he would not have toyed with Tyson Fury. Ali may well have found a way to overcome the height and reach disadvantage and emerged the victor but it would be anything but easy. Fury is bigger, faster, more mobile, and has better ring IQ than Ernie Terrell, he wouldn't have found Fury so easy to use as his plaything, it's not inconceivable that Fury would be just too big for him.

Don't forget most thought that George Forman would be too big and powerful for Ali. Those people (me included) were wrong but today Big hulking George would just be average sized George.

[jas80s]

He holds a win over Klitschko, and is 1-0-1 against Wilder (arguably 2-0). If he beats Joshua that is a legitimately great career. What else can you do except beat the best fighters in your era? I defend older fighters, but current fighters will be old fighters one day, there is greatness in every era.

Is he the best ever? It's just such a silly question, how does one even measure that? Would he beat every other heavyweight with no time machine adjustments? Just each guy as he was, that's at least a more specific question, but even if he could, that doesn't make him the best ever in my book. And, I don't concede that he would beat all others, by the way.

He reminds me of a latter day Jack Johnson (just my opinion). He is just so good at using his size, skills, and athleticism to spoil what his opponents want to do, I was hardly sold when I first saw him, but the guy is pretty damn good.

I just hope he fights Joshua.

[Duran1970]

Ali would toy with fury ... Mismatch really

Delusion much?

Tell me what fury has done to garner such accolades? A finished Klitschko? 1-0-1 vs a guy who doesn't know how to box? The latest isn't always the greatest pal..to think fury is the best is just pure delusion..Ali with his speed and skill set would handle fury with ease

[oogiebe]

Delusion much?

Tell me what fury has done to garner such accolades? A finished Klitschko? 1-0-1 vs a guy who doesn't know how to box? The latest isn't always the greatest pal..to think fury is the best is just pure delusion..Ali with his speed and skill set would handle fury with ease

Many suffer from 'recency.'

[Duran1970]

You ain't just whistlin Dixie...
Im shocked at how much love fury gets...I know this is a UK based site but I mean Jesus Murphy...
Does anyone over the age of 40 or 50 that has studied and followed the game really think these bums today are all time great heavyweights??

[margaret thatcher]

You ain't just whistlin Dixie...
Im shocked at how much love fury gets...I know this is a UK based site but I mean Jesus Murphy...
Does anyone over the age of 40 or 50 that has studied and followed the game really think these bums today are all time great heavyweights??

What's your top 10 list bruh?

[margaret thatcher]

Tell me what fury has done to garner such accolades? A finished Klitschko? 1-0-1 vs a guy who doesn't know how to box? The latest isn't always the greatest pal..to think fury is the best is just pure delusion..Ali with his speed and skill set would handle fury with ease

Many suffer from 'recency.'

And many suffer from oldieitis

[Duran1970]

You ain't just whistlin Dixie...
Im shocked at how much love fury gets...I know this is a UK based site but I mean Jesus Murphy...
Does anyone over the age of 40 or 50 that has studied and followed the game really think these bums today are all time great heavyweights??

What's your top 10 list bruh?

Not Fury

[margaret thatcher]

What's your top 10 list bruh?

Not Fury

Who do you rank top 10, just curious?