Wilder's legacy compared to Wlad's

[greg]

Wilder's legacy compared to Wlad's? there's not much to compare

[Onamastus]

Lewis became undisputed champion in 1999. The WBO wasn't a major belt, nor was the IBC or IBO or WBF or any other. Lewis becoming undisputed champion was worldwide news, whether or not you missed it.

Who do you think was heavyweight champion when Joe Louis was heavyweight champion?

Ultimately you're not the arbiter of the boxing record book, and I question whether you own or have ever read one. You obviously don't understand how they work. You also don't understand the word "reign" as you think two seperate reigns can count as a reign. The fact is Wladimir Klitschko is not the longest reigning heavyweight champion. I'm not cherry picking your post, the thread and other points don't interest me, I'm just pointing out that Louis is longest reigning.

There's a difference between being the main man, the best fighter in the division, and technically holding one of the world title belts.

I’ve already conveyed this point, but you’ve ignored it.

Anyway, the WBO world heavyweight title was moderately prestigious, since the likes of Ray Mercer, Michael Moorer, Tommy Morrison, Riddick Bowe and Vitali Klitschko had all previously held the belt prior to Wlad’s reign.

You keep saying I “don’t understand” this… and I “don’t understand” that but does the same principle apply to the entire world?

Even BoxRec states that “Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history.”

The amount of prestige one applies to such an accomplishment is clearly subjective in nature, given the context of the feat itself, but this is definitely a real-world fact. It's technically true.

If you disagree with me, Google my claim and send a message to the publishers of all the articles available on the internet that make the very same claims, telling them they also “don’t understand how things work”.

And to remind you, because I’m not sure of your reading comprehension (as I keep having to repeat myself)… even if you disagree with me, Wlad is at least the second longest-reigning heavyweight champion of all-time. And that’s no mean feat!

You said, and I quote, "Lewis was the unified not the undisputed champion."

Lewis was the undisputed champion. Perhaps you should send a group email to the global press that reported him as such in 1999, and inform them that Herbie Hide held the WBO title. They may issue a correction.

Can you name an undisputed champion in any division who also held the WBO belt at the same time, prior to Bernard Hopkins in 2004? Just one will suffice.

Listing Mercer, Moorer and Bowe as WBO champs doesn't elevate its standing, as they all vacated the belt to pursue a fight for the actual heavyweight title.

Have no issue with stating Klitschko was the second longest reigning champion. But you wrote that he was "the longest reigning champion," without any sort of qualification.

[Enlightened-One]

You said, and I quote, "Lewis was the unified not the undisputed champion."

Lewis was the undisputed champion. Perhaps you should send a group email to the global press that reported him as such in 1999, and inform them that Herbie Hide held the WBO title. They may issue a correction.

Can you name an undisputed champion in any division who also held the WBO belt at the same time, prior to Bernard Hopkins in 2004? Just one will suffice.

Listing Mercer, Moorer and Bowe as WBO champs doesn't elevate its standing, as they all vacated the belt to pursue a fight for the actual heavyweight title.

Have no issue with stating Klitschko was the second longest reigning champion. But you wrote that he was "the longest reigning champion," without any sort of qualification.

Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

These are real-world facts. You can't pretend that any of the above details are inaccurate. And I have recently posted this information to this forum, so it’s wrong to accuse me of making no attempt to qualify my claims, since I'd already done it a couple of days ago.

It's interesting to note that I've addressed your comments head-on, but you’ve not been as courteous, since you’ve ignored mine. I have even had to repeat myself by reiterating the same explanations multiple times.

I’ve always maintained that Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history.

Even if we abide by YOUR rules, by excluding Wlad’s WBO title reign, he’s still the second longest reigning world heavyweight champion in history.

So I won’t indulge in your insistence to change the topic and comment on anything else, because all you’ll keep doing is moving the goalposts.

I listed 24 separate facts about Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko’s resumes, with each and every single one of them being factually accurate, but you chose to attack one single claim that I have already justified and defended on numerous occasions.

Wladimir Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history! End of story!

[Onamastus]

You said, and I quote, "Lewis was the unified not the undisputed champion."

Lewis was the undisputed champion. Perhaps you should send a group email to the global press that reported him as such in 1999, and inform them that Herbie Hide held the WBO title. They may issue a correction.

Can you name an undisputed champion in any division who also held the WBO belt at the same time, prior to Bernard Hopkins in 2004? Just one will suffice.

Listing Mercer, Moorer and Bowe as WBO champs doesn't elevate its standing, as they all vacated the belt to pursue a fight for the actual heavyweight title.

Have no issue with stating Klitschko was the second longest reigning champion. But you wrote that he was "the longest reigning champion," without any sort of qualification.

Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

These are real-world facts. You can't pretend that any of the above details are inaccurate. And I have recently posted this information to this forum, so it’s wrong to accuse me of making no attempt to qualify my claims, since I'd already done it a couple of days ago.

It's interesting to note that I've addressed your comments head-on, but you’ve not been as courteous, since you’ve ignored mine. I have even had to repeat myself by reiterating the same explanations multiple times.

I’ve always maintained that Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history.

Even if we abide by YOUR rules, by excluding Wlad’s WBO title reign, he’s still the second longest reigning world heavyweight champion in history.

So I won’t indulge in your insistence to change the topic and comment on anything else, because all you’ll keep doing is moving the goalposts.

I listed 24 separate facts about Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko’s resumes, with each and every single one of them being factually accurate, but you chose to attack one single claim that I have already justified and defended on numerous occasions.

Wladimir Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history! End of story!

They're not my rules. A reign has a beginning and an end. A reign doesn't have a three year gap in it. Joe Louis had the longest reign. Wladimir has spent more days as a champion (note "a" rather than "The". Joe: The champion. Wladimir: a champion).

Also, the 2000-03 reign shouldn't be counted as he was an alphabet champion at best, the WBO was a minor belt and wasn't held by any undisputed champion. These weren't my rules. All of boxing saw fit to keep the WBO apart from the Big Three. I had no say in it. If the WBO is retroactively a major belt then Michael Moorer is the first three time heavyweight champion since Muhammad Ali, which is laughable.

[Enlightened-One]

Wladimir has spent more days as a champion

At last, we agree on something! That is precisely what I have kept saying over-and-over again!

If you’d read my words, the same ones I kept repeating, you would have realised this.

[Onamastus]

Wladimir has spent more days as a champion

At last, we agree on something! That is precisely what I have kept saying over-and-over again!

If you’d read my words, the same ones I kept repeating, you would have realised this.

No, you didn't.

You kept insisting Wladimir had had a longer reign than Joe Louis, while repeatedly using the term "real world", when in the real world Joe Louis actually did have a 12 year reign as champion, and in the real world Wladimir never managed such a long unbroken run (but did manage a 9 year one).

Joe Louis is still the longest reigning champion. You still don't understand this.

[Enlightened-One]

At last, we agree on something! That is precisely what I have kept saying over-and-over again!

If you’d read my words, the same ones I kept repeating, you would have realised this.

No, you didn't.

You kept insisting Wladimir had had a longer reign than Joe Louis, while repeatedly using the term "real world"... blah, blah, blah...

Joe Louis is still the longest reigning champion. You still don't understand this.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

Please send a nasty email to all the media sources that convey the very same claims I did.

In fact, you can start the ball rolling by complaining to the head honchos at BoxRec.

I've got bored of this discussion. I've answered everything you've asked me to and I don't want to keep going round in circles by repeating myself over-and-over again.

Enjoy your weekend my friend.

[punchoutsb]

The only things I can think of that is comparable is both have a W, L, and D in their name.

Wlad is boxing royalty, Wilder is an asterisk.

[Onamastus]

No, you didn't.

You kept insisting Wladimir had had a longer reign than Joe Louis, while repeatedly using the term "real world"... blah, blah, blah...

Joe Louis is still the longest reigning champion. You still don't understand this.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

Please send a nasty email to all the media sources that convey the very same claims I did.

In fact, you can start the ball rolling by complaining to the head honchos at BoxRec.

I've got bored of this discussion. I've answered everything you've asked me to and I don't want to keep going round in circles by repeating myself over-and-over again.

Enjoy your weekend my friend.

So did George Foreman's reign as champion last 5 years then? If Wladimir's reign can include a 3 year gap, and 2 knockout losses in title fights, I don't see why George can't have a 20 year gap.

Did Lennox Lewis' reign last 8 years? Wow, he surpassed Larry Holmes' reign of 7 years! Never mind the various knockout losses and several years he was an ex-champ - Lennox had a longer reign than Larry!

Speaking of Lennox, can you clarify what you meant when you said he was never undisputed champion?

[Enlightened-One]

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

Please send a nasty email to all the media sources that convey the very same claims I did.

In fact, you can start the ball rolling by complaining to the head honchos at BoxRec.

I've got bored of this discussion. I've answered everything you've asked me to and I don't want to keep going round in circles by repeating myself over-and-over again.

Enjoy your weekend my friend.

So did George Foreman's reign as champion last 5 years then? If Wladimir's reign can include a 3 year gap, and 2 knockout losses in title fights, I don't see why George can't have a 20 year gap.

Did Lennox Lewis' reign last 8 years? Wow, he surpassed Larry Holmes' reign of 7 years! Never mind the various knockout losses and several years he was an ex-champ - Lennox had a longer reign than Larry!

Speaking of Lennox, can you clarify what you meant when you said he was never undisputed champion?

"Intellectually-dishonest debate tactics"

Badgering - This is repeating the same intellectually-dishonest debate tactic again and again in an attempt to wear out the opponent. There seems to be an implicit notion that if you say the same incorrect thing over and over enough times, that makes it true or that by saying it enough times you can make an incorrect statement have more weight in the debate. Toddler children are big on this.

There is a Latin phrase for this: Argumentum ad nauseam.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

[Cyclops]

how do you rate his title reign compared to Wlad's.. is his legacy at the moment on the same level as Wlad's?

This troll post got itself two pages?

[Onamastus]

So did George Foreman's reign as champion last 5 years then? If Wladimir's reign can include a 3 year gap, and 2 knockout losses in title fights, I don't see why George can't have a 20 year gap.

Did Lennox Lewis' reign last 8 years? Wow, he surpassed Larry Holmes' reign of 7 years! Never mind the various knockout losses and several years he was an ex-champ - Lennox had a longer reign than Larry!

Speaking of Lennox, can you clarify what you meant when you said he was never undisputed champion?

"Intellectually-dishonest debate tactics"

Badgering - This is repeating the same intellectually-dishonest debate tactic again and again in an attempt to wear out the opponent. There seems to be an implicit notion that if you say the same incorrect thing over and over enough times, that makes it true or that by saying it enough times you can make an incorrect statement have more weight in the debate. Toddler children are big on this.

There is a Latin phrase for this: Argumentum ad nauseam.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

I'm not employing any "debate tactics", I'm pointing out that you're wrong, which is clearly painful for you. Louis is the longest reigning champion because he was champion 4,270 days in a row.

Was Klitschko champion 4,382 days in a row? No.

Have you explained what you meant when you said Lewis was never undisputed champion? No.

Have you named these other fighters you said were heavyweight champion while Joe Louis was champion? No.

[thunderking500]

who wins h2h

[Onamastus]

So did George Foreman's reign as champion last 5 years then? If Wladimir's reign can include a 3 year gap, and 2 knockout losses in title fights, I don't see why George can't have a 20 year gap.

Did Lennox Lewis' reign last 8 years? Wow, he surpassed Larry Holmes' reign of 7 years! Never mind the various knockout losses and several years he was an ex-champ - Lennox had a longer reign than Larry!

Speaking of Lennox, can you clarify what you meant when you said he was never undisputed champion?

"Intellectually-dishonest debate tactics"

Badgering - This is repeating the same intellectually-dishonest debate tactic again and again in an attempt to wear out the opponent. There seems to be an implicit notion that if you say the same incorrect thing over and over enough times, that makes it true or that by saying it enough times you can make an incorrect statement have more weight in the debate. Toddler children are big on this.

There is a Latin phrase for this: Argumentum ad nauseam.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

From Boxrec's own profile on Wladimir Klitschko, the apparent higher authority which you cited numerous times:

"Klitschko held the IBF, WBA and WBO heavyweight titles longer than any other fighter in history, and he is the second longest-reigning heavyweight champion of all-time. Klitschko's reign of nine years, seven months and seven days is second only to the reign of Joe Louis, who was champion for 11 years, eight months and eight days."

But go on, tell me who is being "dishonest".

[snake33]

The pre-Manny Wlad was kinda dicey but after then he made
an amazing transition and was a force for a long time. He had
the skills to reinvent himself.
Wlider did not dominate for a long time over top contenders and
he does not have the skills to reinvent himself.
Wilder has a BIG right hand that he may not be able to get to the
target facing world class competition. (See late career Tyson).

[margaret thatcher]

who wins h2h

How do you think their legacies compare bruh?

H2H Wilder has a better argument for sure...it would definitely be a low output stand offish affair. Both guys nervous.

[oogiebe]

I dig wilder, but there is no comparison on legacy. If Wilder comes back and cleans TGK's clock and goes on to bash AJ then we can have this debate.

[Enlightened-One]

”Klitschko held the IBF, WBA and WBO heavyweight titles longer than any other fighter in history...”

But go on, tell me who is being "dishonest".

Did you read what you actually wrote?

BoxRec also states the following:

Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history. He was the champion for 4,382 days (12 years).

So you’re basically agreeing with me?

[oogiebe]

”Klitschko held the IBF, WBA and WBO heavyweight titles longer than any other fighter in history...”

But go on, tell me who is being "dishonest".

Did you read what you actually wrote?

You are being dishonest here EO. You quoted the man out of context to suit your own needs. Tsk tsk...

[Enlightened-One]

Did you read what you actually wrote?

You are being dishonest here EO. You quoted the man out of context to suit your own needs. Tsk tsk...

I quote his words verbatim.

He either wrote it or he didn’t. Well what’s it to be?

Be honest, can you read... and if so, did he write that sentence word-for-word?

[margaret thatcher]

Sons of Gypsy King

[oogiebe]

You are being dishonest here EO. You quoted the man out of context to suit your own needs. Tsk tsk...

I quote his words verbatim.

He either wrote it or he didn’t. Well what’s it to be?

Be honest, can you read... and if so, did he write that sentence word-for-word?

We all saw what his ENTIRE post read and the point he's been making. You are doing exactly what you posted before about not debating honestly. You do this a lot and this time is one of the worst.

[Enlightened-One]

I quote his words verbatim.

He either wrote it or he didn’t. Well what’s it to be?

Be honest, can you read... and if so, did he write that sentence word-for-word?

We all saw what his ENTIRE post read and the point he's been making. You are doing exactly what you posted before about not debating honestly. You do this a lot and this time is one of the worst.

Is this factually correct or not and did I not previously quote his thoughts word-for-word?

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days


Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

BoxRec confirms these facts.

So I’ve used his very own source as my counter-argument.

[oogiebe]

We all saw what his ENTIRE post read and the point he's been making. You are doing exactly what you posted before about not debating honestly. You do this a lot and this time is one of the worst.

Is this factually correct or not and did I not previously quote his thoughts word-for-word?

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days


Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

Sorry son, this was bad play even for you. You know it. The previous poster was talking length of reign and not days as champ. Two very different things. Then you took his post out of context to suit your own needs. Very poor play.

[Enlightened-One]

Is this factually correct or not and did I not previously quote his thoughts word-for-word?

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days


Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days

Sorry son, this was bad play even for you. You know it. The previous poster was talking length of reign and not days as champ. Two very different things. Then you took his post out of context to suit your own needs. Very poor play.

I'll ask you for a second time, can you read?

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Wladimir_Klitschko

"Klitschko holds the longest combined world heavyweight championship reign in history. He was the champion for 4,382 days (12 years)."

And even Onamastus wrote the following:

From Boxrec's own profile on Wladimir Klitschko...

"Klitschko held the IBF, WBA and WBO heavyweight titles longer than any other fighter in history...

You're either illiterate or you are blind if you can;t read those words directly from the BoxRec website.

Wladimir Klitschko 4,382 days > Joe Louis 4,270 days

Wladimir Klitschko:
14/10/2000 until 08/03/2003 = 875 days (WBO title)
22/04/2006 until 28/11/2015 = 3,507 days (IBF title)

Combined total = 4,382 days

Joe Louis:
22/06/1937 until 01/03/1949 = 4,270 days