Is Fury the best heavyweight of all time?

[margaret thatcher]

I'm not applying modern rules or science to those times at all, and it shows your clear lack of understanding if you think I am. I am actually saying that the fact that those rules/science weren't in place way back then is part of the reason why you used to have HW champs who were no bigger than welters today. I am taking everything as it is, it is you and others you think there needs to be some adjustments to compensate for those differences.

[margaret thatcher]

Every era has had guys stepping up from lower weights to fight for, and often win the, or at least a, heavyweight title.

Hmm, I wonder if Shawn Porter will become hw champ

[ewenhay]

I'm not applying modern rules or science to those times at all, and it shows your clear lack of understanding if you think I am. I am actually saying that the fact that those rules/science weren't in place way back then is part of the reason why you used to have HW champs who were no bigger than welters today. I am taking everything as it is, it is you and others you think there needs to be some adjustments to compensate for those differences.

Yeah but by the same token Jack Johnson would be a tiny heavyweight today.

You can't have it both ways

[margaret thatcher]

I'm not having it both ways, I'm taking everyone exactly as they are. Before you were trying to argue that I shouldn't be doing that and that I needed to take account of the differences in times etc, now the argument is that I shouldn't be adding those differences in and applying them to different times (I'm not), lol you really bend yourself over just to disagree

[ewenhay]

I've been consistent throughout.

You're the one comparing Danny Garcia to Tommy Burns and saying they are the same.

When at the same time Jack Johnson is much smaller than Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua.

Tommy Burns fighting Jack Johnson is in no way the same as Danny Garcia fighting Tyson Fury

[margaret thatcher]

You haven't, like usual you just bend and twist any way you can to disagree, even when you actually agree

See, there you have me taking the guys as they are, one 5'7 160s guy to another, but just a post before you were arguing the problem was that I'm not taking them for what they are. You are all over the place with what is right and what is wrong

You're right, Jack Johnson was far smaller than guys like Fury and AJ, I've already brought up his own lack of size compared to guys like that multiple times. Maybe try reading a bit better Ewster So what we have, as it actually was, was a guy the size of modern lhws winning the hw title from a guy around the size of modern wws. I never said JJ shouldn't have challenged Burns, but that I take account of the particulars of those fighters when rankings guys like JJ as a HW and compared to other HWs--who is best at HW certainly should consider differences that would make one more effective than the other. It would be stupid not to account for the fighter he was and the opposition he faced

[ewenhay]

Yeah but as usual you've missed the point.

In those days that was feasible as the heavyweights at the time weren't that big really in comparison. And Jack Johnson was right at the top of that scale, by no means the average heavyweight size at the time.

The disparity between the modern welterweight and the modern heavyweight is light years bigger.

It's more like Saul Alvarez campaigning at light heavyweight today.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, little guys about that size would be absolutely crushed by the likes of AJ and Fury and Wilder today, those fights wouldn't even be allowed to happen would they, let alone the bigger guy getting lionized for it

[ewenhay]

Exactly.

Which is why you need to evaluate heavyweights in their own eras rather than across multiple eras.

I'm glad you came round to that way of thinking eventually

[margaret thatcher]

Nah, I'm not for some time period affirmative action to compensate for one eras shortcomings, we are talking the same divison here. Just like a guy like Wlad Klit doesn't get any bonuses for having a largely weak era as it is in comparison to others. It goes back again to taking guys for what they were, though apparently you can't make your mind up on whether I'm doing that and whether it's what I should do

[ewenhay]

Nah, I'm not for some time period affirmative action to compensate for one eras shortcomings. Just like a guy like Wlad Klit doesn't get any bonuses for having a largely weak era as it is in comparison to others. It goes back again to taking guys for what they were, though apparently you can't make your mind up on whether I'm doing that and whether it's what I should do

Yeah you must be right.

[margaret thatcher]

If Fury beats AJ (I think he would) he's beaten all the top men of his era. You can only go by the era. Therefore Fury = GOAT

[ewenhay]

If Fury beats AJ (I think he would) he's beaten all the top men of his era. You can only go by the era. Therefore Fury = GOAT

Nah. He'd be pretty much proven as the best of his era. Although there is always someone else to beat, that's the nature of boxing.

But his achievements in his era wouldn't match up with the achievements of others in theirs.

Which would mean he ranks lower all time than they do.

[margaret thatcher]

You can only beat who is there though right, he'd have beaten all the other elite men there. That's the pinnacle of it ain't it. etc etc. You can't compare between any other eras, all different times! Gypsy King has as good a case as any for the #1 spot then

[ewenhay]

You can only beat who is there though right, he'd have beaten all the other elite men there. That's the pinnacle of it ain't it. etc etc. You can't compare between any other eras, all different times! Gypsy King has as good a case as any for the #1 spot then

Comparing achievements within eras is different from imagining fantasy match ups across eras

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, and if Fury can beat AJ that's all the elite men from his era. Since apparently we can't do cross era comparisons because it's unfair, we just have to look at inside each era. Fury will have been the king and therefore would be up there with any other HW king in history, and the op might just be 1 fight off

Come on big GK, let's see it

[ewenhay]

[ewenhay]

We need some live boxing to watch. Going to feel like a long lay off!