Boxing & Wrestling: Closer Than one Thinks

[HomicideHenry]

In the London Prize Ring rules one of the original formulas for boxing was that a fighter could gran another fighter from the waist up and slam him to the canvas. Boxing before the 20th century was a combination of both Graeco-Roman wrestling and boxing. Nobody could really make it in the sport unless you was disciplined in both arts of combat.

Take for example the 'Great' John L. Sullivan, whose punching prowess and ferocity has become the stuff of legend---he too was a good wrestler in his own right. Before 1889 Sullivan was more a puncher, but when he did an exhibition with American Wrestling champion William Muldoon, Sullivan asked the wrestler to not only become a trainer but his manager as well.

Gentleman Jim Corbett also participated in several wrestling matches and in his early career applied this knowledge to his pugilistic career. It wasn't until the London Prize ring rules were ultimately brought to an end that the two sports split completely, as now the Marquis of Queensbury rules became the new doctrine of the squared circle.

In the 1940's an interest in 'Boxer vs Wrestler' matches became the norm in professional wrestling, a genre of sport that became part show business and theatre in the late 1930's, though flamboyance and faked bios of athletes were common even in the late 1800's.

Possibly the first real publicised match-up that was legit was in 1940. The incident that led up to this exhibition bout was almost as interesting as the match it's self. Jack Dempsey, long since retired from the ring, agreed to referee a wrestling bout. Dempsey himself had wrestled a few matches, long before his kayo of Jess Willard.

Dempsey, not knowing that it was a show, saw the heel (bad guy) Clarence "Cowboy" Luttrell use illegal tactics on his opponent, Dempsey signaled the match to be over. Luttrell got angered, as this was not how the 'match' was supposed to end and hit Dempsey in a fit of rage.

Dempsey swore revenge and managed to get Nat Fleischer, editor of Ring magazine, to help set up, as well as referee, a match between the 'Manassa Mauler' and "The Cowboy". Dempsey was 45 years old and trained hard for this match-up, while Luttrell was bitching trying to find a way out of the contract.

When the bout started it was clear Luttrell had no chance. He couldn't land any affective punches and took such a beating that he even tried to take off his gloves and get a hold of Dempsey. In round two Luttrell tried to keep away from Dempsey, but like when he fought Firpo, instead of him being knocked through the ropes, he knocked Luttrell throw the ropes, winning by KO. Dempsey later on also beat wrestler Bull Curry in a boxing exhibition, also by KO in the second round.

Out of the wood-work several professional wrestlers decided that they could make a better living as boxers. Prior to the 1940's there were a few wrestlers who boxed and boxers who later wrestled. In the 1920's "Big" Wayne Munn a famous College football player who became a wrestling champion tried his hand at boxing, only to lose in both his fights, both by KO. Primo Carnera as well as Joe Louis tried hands at wrestling after their boxing careers were over.

After the Dempsey/Luttrell/Curry fights wrestlers were becoming more visible around the boxing arenas. Irish giant Jim Culley, all 7'4" of himself, a champion wrestler known as the "Tipperary Giant" tried being a boxer but, like Munn, failed in his only two matches as a pugilist.

Southern Heavyweight wrestling champion "Iron" Mike DiBiase, step father of "Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase, at 6' and 230 pounds believed that if he could face a big name in the sport, but passed their best, he could possibly make a bigger name of himself, as he was quite popular. His opponent was 47 year old Archie Moore, and he was dismantled inside of three rounds to the "Mongoose".

For a time 'boxers vs wrestlers' became taboo, and it wouldn't be until 1976 that it would be ressurected, as Muhammad Ali took on wrestling champion Antonio Inoki---and on that same night Chuck Wepner faced off against "The 8th Wonder of the World" Andre the Giant.

Ali's bout with Inoki went the full 15 rounds, ending in a draw, even though Inoki was the one who did the most damage, as his "crab-walking" defense did a number on Ali's legs. Wepner's bout with Andre was originally a 'pre-arranged' draw, but when Wepner hit his gigantic foe with a hard right hand shot in the 3rd round, The Giant put everything he had into it and knocked Wepner out of the ring and there was such a ballyhoo that the fight was called off.

In the 1990's the whole concept of 'boxers vs wrestlers' was again resurfaced. Vince McMahon, whose grandfather Jess McMahon, a boxing promoter who helped organise the Johnson vs Willard bout, came up with the idea of a 'Brawl For All' tournament, having his own wrestlers fight in boxing matches with the winner of the tournament to square off against 'King of the Four Rounders' Eric 'Butterbean' Esch.

At Wrestlemania 15, Bart Gunn, who won the tournament, lost by KO in :38 seconds of the first round, after being knocked down in the first 10 seconds of the bout. Since then the WWE has not staged anymore 'boxer vs wrestler' competitions.

There have been a few successful wrestlers who became boxers. Danny Hodge, an Olympian wrestler-turn-professional wrestler, tried his hand at boxing, since he already excelled in the sport as an amateur, holding a pretty decent record against good opposition. WWE wrestler Tony Halme "The Viking" also tried his hand at boxing, as he too was a good amatuer boxer before becoming a wrestler. He won a minor title over Iran "The Blade" Barkley. Paul Berlenbach, the world Light Heavyweight champion in boxing, also was a wrestler before his career as a pugilist, and even had wrestling exhibitions during his career as a boxer against the likes of Ray Steele, among others.

[BoxBuzz]

Southern Heavyweight wrestling champion "Iron" Mike DiBiase, step father of "Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase, at 6' and 230 pounds believed that if he could face a big name in the sport, but passed their best, he could possibly make a bigger name of himself, as he was quite popular. His opponent was 47 year old Archie Moore, and he was dismantled inside of three rounds to the "Mongoose"..

I was in attendance in Phoenix Arizona......It was a great going away party for Archie......

[HomicideHenry]

How was Moore-DiBiase a work when it is recognised as a true boxing match? It's on Moore's record.

[Kid Skid]

Ah, thats the beauty of Kayfabe. The constant real or not debate.

[BoxBuzz]

I was at the Moore Dibiase affair it was a legit fight where a wrestler really thought he could box. An old Moore beat up on a pretty strong younger guy who really thought he was something. All boxing rules and no showboating and just a silly beat down on a guy who was game young and strong and outclassed in a type of fighting he had no respect for. Until after a good beating.

[Expug]

I was at the Moore Dibiase affair it was a legit fight where a wrestler really thought he could box. An old Moore beat up on a pretty strong younger guy who really thought he was something. All boxing rules and no showboating and just a silly beat down on a guy who was game young and strong and outclassed in a type of fighting he had no respect for. Until after a good beating.

Its amazing how a good beating can change an opinion.

[HomicideHenry]

Dempsey-Luttrell was a work. So was Dibiase-Moore. So was Wepner-Andre.

I'd rather believe BoxBuzz who was there at the event, than a guy who believes that every wrestling match was a fake one.

[HomicideHenry]

Not modern day professional wrestling no, but alot of the matches 1930 and before were shoots (legit). Yes there was alot of ballyhoo and fact bios and 'character' wrestlers even back into the 1800's but alot of those men did have wrestling skill.

Guys like Ed Lewis and Joe Stetcher were true athletes, even Frank Gotch had good skills both defensively and offensively---yes wrestling did get a bad name for it'self due to Gotch 'fixing' his matches with European/Greaco-Roman champion George Hackenschmidt by sending shooters into his training camp to injure him---but really wrestling became rasslin during the depression (20's-mid 30's), but still shoots happened off and on into the next decade.

I know you say your an 'expert' on the two sports, but I have been around professional wrestlers and 'fix' or not they are athletes and if they wanted to the so-called 'fake' holds they put on people, could cripple you. I have set up rings and talked to many of them, some stars from even the 70's and early 60's. I think I can say I have the right opinion on the sport, if you want to call it that.