How good was Kirkland Laing?

[Old bones Ian]

Kirkland Laing in my opinion wasnt anything better than Euro level. I think hes given more glorification by beating Duran. But Duran was a bit up and down and didnt really give a crap if he won or lost at that time in his career.

Laing like Herol Graham was a tricky boxer and im not saying he couldnt have won a world belt as Herol could have done so as well, but Im not going to say Kirkland was a world class boxer.

I disagree. Laing in opinion was one of the most talented British boxers ever to lace on a pair of gloves and most definitely world class. The only thing that stopped him from becoming a world champ and becoming all time great was his lack of self discipline .

Having said that, having self discipline and desire is also part of the make up of becoming an elite fighter. Floyd Mayweather is a perfect example of this

Although Mayweather was a superb athlete and trained like an animal, I'd say someone less blessed would be the perfect example, take Ricky Burns , skillwise and power Laing was levels above Burns, but the self discipline and desire was all Burns, so he was the one walking away as a multiple world Titleist

[bennie]

Kirk had a go at me once at a Board do in 1989 but - and I know this is old - nobody can understand a bloody word that he says and I was trying not to laugh as Jim Rosenthal laughed when he interviewed kirk after the Sylvester Mittee fight. Obviously, I never felt threatened. One thing I did notice about the man is his perfect fighting physique. Laing was and probably still is a natural welterweight, just as Ken Buchanan is still a natural lightweight and Marvin Hagler, a natural middleweight.
Kirk's longevity is also striking. He won an ABA title back in 1972 against Vernon Sollas (a senior ABA title) and could still call himself a British champion in the pros in 1991. When you consider the hard men he encountered through the years, such as Roberto Duran, Colin Jones, Fred Hutchings, Curtis Taylor, Peter Morris, Joey Mack, Cliff Gilpin and Darwin Brewster, among many others, along with his love of the 'weed', it tells you that Laing was a natural athlete who probably trained harder than he is given credit for. Mentally, too, he usually stood up and manager Terry Lawless only dropped him after the second defeat to the world class Jones and Mickey Duff then took over and steered Laing to the famous win over Duran in September 1982 because Duff had 'sussed' Duran's weakness to movers. Laing was nothing if not a great mover (he was also good at giving his opponents a little push after an attack to give himself room for another attack). Laing then disappeared for a year according to Duff but was ringside at the Albert Hall in early 1983 when his brother Tony licked Brixton's Tony Adams in a big upset.
Anyway, Duff also managed Lloyd Honeyghan and this is where Laing lost out. I believe Kirk had the ability to win a world title but Honeyghan got the European title shot and then the shot at the undisputed world welterweight title, which he won of course; Laing kicked his heels and it wasn't until he beat Mittee for the vacant British welterweight title in 1987 - five years after Duran - that we began to see how good he really was but five years in the relative wilderness forced him to settle for brilliant domestic supremacy and a crushing European title win. There was talk of a world title shot, of course, but once again Honeyghan got the shot (at Mark Breland) while Laing picked up a payday - and a defeat - in defence of his European title against Patrizio Oliva in Italy in late 1990, after which he never won another big fight.

[polecateddy]

Is the a little bit of a question mark about Laing's chin, as well as all the lack of discipline issues?

[Noxy]

Here’s a question - Laing and Herol are both from Nottingham. Were they at the same amateur club? If so, were they there at the same time?

[ERIC GUY]

I knew Kirkland very well, we sparred a few times, very talented, but enjoyed the spliff more often than not, I picked him up to fight buck smith, his flat smelt of weed, , he lost that that night, I think more from his lifestyle, more than his boxing...

An old pal of mine told me that Laing would get the better of the Ragamuffin in sparring in North London. Did you ever see any of this?

yes that did happen, the gym, but the royal oak, not north london

[TheGoods]

He clearly had world class ability. He was touched by genius. But a lack of self discipline and a self destructive streak meant - Duran aside - he never really showed the world how good he was.

[Pugilist-specialist]

An old pal of mine told me that Laing would get the better of the Ragamuffin in sparring in North London. Did you ever see any of this?

yes that did happen, the gym, but the royal oak, not north london

Thanks Eric - probably my memory. He also said that when Honeyghan was world champion other fighters (including Laing) would be cleared out of the gym when he turned up to train

[stujones]

I personally think Herol was more "unlucky" than Laing. For me, although close - I thought he edged McCallum.... it was Mike Freaking McCallum also - and lets not forget he was also 2 rounds from beating Brewer. But had he not got that decision it would have been a scandal.

[ERIC GUY]

yes that did happen, the gym, but the royal oak, not north london

Thanks Eric - probably my memory. He also said that when Honeyghan was world champion other fighters (including Laing) would be cleared out of the gym when he turned up to train

honeygan booked the gym at the enterprise in tottenham to train for 2 hours. did not clear then out,

[margaret thatcher]

I personally think Herol was more "unlucky" than Laing. For me, although close - I thought he edged McCallum.... it was Mike Freaking McCallum also - and lets not forget he was also 2 rounds from beating Brewer. But had he not got that decision it would have been a scandal.

Similar old story, boxes well and gets ahead but can't hold it.

[THEBUTCH]

Honeyghan may have got the title shots against Curry (which was well earned) and Breland (his style was all wrong for Honeyghan) but boy did Lloyd come good in his first challenge.

I can't imagine Laing getting close to beating any of the following world welterweight champions - Milton McCrory, Donald Curry, Mark Breland, Marlon Starling, Simon Brown.

Kirkland just didn't have it in him, ill disciplined or not. It wasn't fitness that let him down, it was his low held hands style of boxing. Colin Jones demonstrated that perfectly over the championship distance.

[banjo]

I personally think Herol was more "unlucky" than Laing. For me, although close - I thought he edged McCallum.... it was Mike Freaking McCallum also - and lets not forget he was also 2 rounds from beating Brewer. But had he not got that decision it would have been a scandal.

He was also 38 years old and a decade removed from his prime when he fought Brewer.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, he was even older than when Grant and Jack did the same thing to him

[Switch hitter]

Ya, he was even older than when Grant and Jack did the same thing to him

Take it your not a fan then ?

[Pugilist-specialist]

Thanks Eric - probably my memory. He also said that when Honeyghan was world champion other fighters (including Laing) would be cleared out of the gym when he turned up to train

honeygan booked the gym at the enterprise in tottenham to train for 2 hours. did not clear then out,

My memory was OK, he did tell me Tottenham. He did say that they had to leave (including Laing).

[Pugilist-specialist]

Ya, he was even older than when Grant and Jack did the same thing to him

Badou Jack?

[banjo]

Ya, he was even older than when Grant and Jack did the same thing to him

Badou Jack?

Think he means Jackson.

[rm1]

. He was a fantastically gifted and unorthodox fighter of the kind that overturns the rules and does what shouldn't be possible we all love these freakish talents look at Roy Jones, but his lack of discipline precluded him achieving true greatness.
Also Laing had some kind of leg trouble as a kid; as such he always had a strange style of footwork sometimes this worked to his advantage and other times not.

[margaret thatcher]

I don't mind Herry at all tbh, he's good for a watch because he had a unique way of fighting and still power even though he was an elusive fighter, I just don't agree with the common narrative of him being some big time unlucky dude...all those stoppage losses while he was ahead were his own shortcomings and sure he had some close decisions, but none that are remotely up there with the level of bad robberies we see all the time. He just couldn't put the stamp on it when it mattered most. Got plenty of chances , including at home.

[Steel City]

The Klits were less talented than Graham and Laing but had what mattered.

That line is a load of nonsense.

Both Klitschko's were special fighters. Wladimir had unreal exceptional skills. Wlad won an Olympic Gold medal when he was 20 years old, Herol couldn't get past ABA domestic level.

Graham is the most overrated boxer ever. Just having skills doesn't make you great, he lacked a lot of things hence why he failed.

[Noxy]

The Klits were less talented than Graham and Laing but had what mattered.

That line is a load of nonsense.

Both Klitschko's were special fighters. Wladimir had unreal exceptional skills. Wlad won an Olympic Gold medal when he was 20 years old, Herol couldn't get past ABA domestic level.

Graham is the most overrated boxer ever. Just having skills doesn't make you great, he lacked a lot of things hence why he failed.

Graham overrated? I don’t get that at all. He consistently outclassed good opponents for years, sure there were some exceptions but not many. He was a brilliant fighter.

[polecateddy]

Graham in his heyday was a bit before my time, but I really enjoyed his comeback. Probably the best comeback performance was against Chris Johnson (I think his name was), who was the big pre fight favourite. The Vinnie Paz fight wasn’t great, and certainly a million miles away from how Roy Jones dealt with Vinnie. I think that Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank avoided him like the plague says something, although didn’t Eubank once knock him out in sparring?

He probably would have outboxed a lot of championship level fighters, but there would have always been a chance his chin might have occasionally let him down. For my money he was a much more consistent performer than Kirkland Laing.

[margaret thatcher]

That line is a load of nonsense.

Both Klitschko's were special fighters. Wladimir had unreal exceptional skills. Wlad won an Olympic Gold medal when he was 20 years old, Herol couldn't get past ABA domestic level.

Graham is the most overrated boxer ever. Just having skills doesn't make you great, he lacked a lot of things hence why he failed.

Graham overrated? I don’t get that at all. He consistently outclassed good opponents for years, sure there were some exceptions but not many. He was a brilliant fighter.

He was a very solid fighter, perhaps a slightly lesser fighter than the brilliant Sumbu Kalambay. Herol was probably 1-5 vs world class opponents, not counting Grant, but could have easily been 15-0.

[THEBUTCH]

Although this topic is about Kirland Laing, I also need to get my bit in about Herol Graham.

Put simply, he was brilliant and had many special nights over a long period and whilst I don't think Laing was world championship material, "Bomber" certainly was. Wins over the likes of Kalule, Kaylor, Holmes prove he was capable of winning a world title. He was kept waiting by Hagler and losing to Kalambay is no disgrace. Sumbu was a hell of a boxer. If Herol had had Steve Collins' championship winning route for instance, Bomber would have stood every chance of winning a world title and defending it successfully.

McCallum and Kalambay both licked Collins and Reggie Johnson was on a par with Brewer and also edged out the Celtic warrior. Herol had it in him but just didn't have the luck, Collins did have the luck.

[margaret thatcher]

Kaylor wasn't near world level, Kalule and Holmes were defo his best wins. Obviously he was good, but for sure I can see why some might find him overrated, the talk of him gets to jizzing buckets full levels of praise, but the reality is there are tons of guys who did more and didnt have the same level of 'he blew it' factor, but dont get nearly as exalted

Ya, Sumbu was a very solid fighter, a better fighter than Herol , though im sure ever card that ever went against Herry, even in his own backyard, was just a robbery