Who is the best middleweight in history ?

nobleart1978 · Post by **nobleart1978** » 24 Mar 2020, 17:59

Who is the best 160 pounder in history based on boxing ability, quality of opposition faced, ring generalship etc

PS: not on who would have beat who

paddy chavez · Post by **paddy chavez** » 24 Mar 2020, 19:37

I'm a bit shocked at the results so far as in Robinson wasn't at his best at middleweight he was much better at 147 . I'd say grebb, Hagler and monzon had a better claim and Hopkins shouldn't be in the mix really he never beat a decent middle weight

Wee Tommy · Post by **Wee Tommy** » 26 Mar 2020, 06:25

Greg by a clear margin.

Woldemar · Post by **Woldemar** » 26 Mar 2020, 06:54

Monzon.

Onamastus · Post by **Onamastus** » 26 Mar 2020, 10:48

Based on ability and opposition it's surely Robinson. He was a welterweight handling middleweights. Hagler and Monzon don't have the same impossible level of ability as him, and were often middleweights handling welterweights.

What is Hopkins doing here? Michael Nunn beat better opponents than him, and would beat him head to head.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 26 Mar 2020, 11:46

Woldemar wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 06:54Monzon.

x2

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 26 Mar 2020, 11:58

It's really close between Greb, Robinson, Monzon, and Hagler.

there are tricky questions that you have to consider, such as: How to rate Greb's No-decisions wins there were a zillion of them.
Robinson's performances against middleweights when he was just a welterweight. Do we count them as if he was a middleweight? and the loss to LaMotta?
How impressive was Monzon's title reign? Mostly impressive, should have beaten an old Griffith much easier. What about the weak competition before winning the title/
Hagler had a impressive career, but enough subpar performances to make you wonder.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 26 Mar 2020, 13:08

Can't get much if any vids of Greb to make an honest assessment. Robinson was a true Welterweight, but what I saw of him at Middleweight was enough. Saw Monzon plenty and of course Hagler. Monzon was the best I've ever seen.

Boxingguru75 · Post by **Boxingguru75** » 27 Mar 2020, 02:37

Purely on opponents- hard to beat Greb. He fought 45 times in 1919 alone. And not against pushovers. Certainly fought the most hall of famers of all time and defeat of Tunney puts him in the best of all time ground.

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 27 Mar 2020, 08:13

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 11:46
Woldemar wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 06:54Monzon.
x2

x3

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 27 Mar 2020, 11:36

Boxingguru75 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 02:37 Purely on opponents- hard to beat Greb. He fought 45 times in 1919 alone. And not against pushovers. Certainly fought the most hall of famers of all time and defeat of Tunney puts him in the best of all time ground.

You certainly can make a good case for him. His "victims" list is pretty impressive. It would be great to be able to see video of him. However, there are plenty of quality fighters that we can see video of whom he beat; which shows he had to have been great. The No-Decisions is the big gray area.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 27 Mar 2020, 13:20

1.Greb 2.Robinson

goose 5 · Post by **goose 5** » 27 Mar 2020, 14:15

I'd choose Robinson, but I can't evaluate Greb due to never having seen him. As for Ketchel, Jimmy Jacobs and Cus Damato disparaged that era's fighters so I defer to them in that regard. Joey Giardello had great skill and fought so many terrific middleweights. I'd take him over Hagler, Monzon and hopkins by far.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 27 Mar 2020, 17:44

goose 5 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2020, 14:15 I'd choose Robinson, but I can't evaluate Greb due to never having seen him. As for Ketchel, Jimmy Jacobs and Cus Damato disparaged that era's fighters so I defer to them in that regard. Joey Giardello had great skill and fought so many terrific middleweights. I'd take him over Hagler, Monzon and hopkins by far.

I always forget Giardello and I shouldn't. Great shout, but I like Monzon better.

Scypion · Post by **Scypion** » 09 Apr 2020, 22:08

For me its a tie between Robinson, Monzon, and Hagler. I wouldn't put any one of them over the other two.

Onetimeonly · Post by **Onetimeonly** » 10 Apr 2020, 02:52

Greb is most accomplished, I think Marvin was the best.

zuru · Post by **zuru** » 10 Apr 2020, 15:39

Onamastus wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 10:48
What is Hopkins doing here? Michael Nunn beat better opponents than him, and would beat him head to head.

I agree with this quote.You can't take anything away from any of these fighters because I've said before,stepping in the ring alone requires a special person.But compared to the others normally mentioned,I don't think Hopkins is in the Top 10.

And I haven't seen from what's available,why Monzon is rated so high.Ive read the comments but honestly I personally think Robinson and Hagler beat him.Ive always read of Grebs greatness but Hagler was always in shape always came to fight,box,or brawl,great chin ,stamina,defense ,balance ,killer instinct.
Maybe 1 day I'll change but I think Hagler 1,Robinson 2.

kochamp · Post by **kochamp** » 10 Apr 2020, 18:30

IMO

1) Greb
2) Robinson
3) Hagler
4) Monzon
5) Stanley Ketchel

Based on what I've seen and read