ALL TIME HEAVYWEIGHT RATINGS/RANKINGS

[DrDuke]

I've always been taking Bowe's bouts vs Golota as Bowe's losses. He was beaten up. Golota gave away both those wins.

You are as always argumentative.

[DrDuke]

I've always been taking Bowe's bouts vs Golota as Bowe's losses. He was beaten up. Golota gave away both those wins.

They were boxing matches not no holds barred fights. Why did Golota give the fight away, charity?

Because he was a nutty sometimes. Anyway, you're talking as if only those low blows matter. Golota didn't only hit Bowe low. He hit Bowe in every way he wanted. Bowe got his ass whooped in those fights.

[Wee Tommy]

They were boxing matches not no holds barred fights. Why did Golota give the fight away, charity?

Because he was a nutty sometimes. Anyway, you're talking as if only those low blows matter. Golota didn't only hit Bowe low. He hit Bowe in every way he wanted. Bowe got his ass whooped in those fights.

Who had their hand raised and why?

[Onamastus]

They were boxing matches not no holds barred fights. Why did Golota give the fight away, charity?

Because he was a nutty sometimes. Anyway, you're talking as if only those low blows matter. Golota didn't only hit Bowe low. He hit Bowe in every way he wanted. Bowe got his ass whooped in those fights.

Did you not see Golota's face after those fights? He took punches too. Bowe broke his jaw in the rematch! No wonder he was looking for an escape route.

[DrDuke]

Because he was a nutty sometimes. Anyway, you're talking as if only those low blows matter. Golota didn't only hit Bowe low. He hit Bowe in every way he wanted. Bowe got his ass whooped in those fights.

Who had their hand raised and why?

Of course, that's a win on paper for Bowe. But what's worth in it? Lewis-Holyfield was a draw on paper. How much does it tell? Will you name Golota wins anyhow defining for Bowe's resume?

[DrDuke]

Because he was a nutty sometimes. Anyway, you're talking as if only those low blows matter. Golota didn't only hit Bowe low. He hit Bowe in every way he wanted. Bowe got his ass whooped in those fights.

Did you not see Golota's face after those fights? He took punches too. Bowe broke his jaw in the rematch! No wonder he was looking for an escape route.

Oh, them bruises, cuts and broken jaws are so descriptive, yeah. Let's judge fights by them, who gives a damn about landed punches. If a fighter lands 10 of them without cutting opponent's face, who would a give f*ck about it, when his opponent will land a single razor sharp cut making punch! And I'm sure, Golota wanted so much to escape from beating the sh!t out of Bowe in the 9th round of the 10 round fight, yeah.

[Cojimar 1946]

The Golota fights don't have a lot of impact on Bowe's resume.
However, we have more than enough to go on when rating Bowe. Obviously he had the three fights with Holyfield. He had several tests when he was an up and coming fighter. There is a ton of footage available to see him action.

Bowe fought a grand total of 3 opponents I would classify as world class.

That's not enough to give us a good measure of how he rates in his own era. He would need to fight more of his contemporaries to establish his place. Otherwise one could argue that Ike Ibeabuchi was the greatest heavyweight of his era.

[Onamastus]

Did you not see Golota's face after those fights? He took punches too. Bowe broke his jaw in the rematch! No wonder he was looking for an escape route.

Oh, them bruises, cuts and broken jaws are so descriptive, yeah. Let's judge fights by them, who gives a damn about landed punches. If a fighter lands 10 of them without cutting opponent's face, who would a give f*ck about it, when his opponent will land a single razor sharp cut making punch! And I'm sure, Golota wanted so much to escape from beating the sh!t out of Bowe in the 9th round of the 10 round fight, yeah.

Well he obviously did want to escape because he couldn't stop getting himself disqualified, again, despite being warned repeatedly.

[Ambling Alp II]

The Golota fights don't have a lot of impact on Bowe's resume.
However, we have more than enough to go on when rating Bowe. Obviously he had the three fights with Holyfield. He had several tests when he was an up and coming fighter. There is a ton of footage available to see him action.

Bowe fought a grand total of 3 opponents I would classify as world class.

That's not enough to give us a good measure of how he rates in his own era. He would need to fight more of his contemporaries to establish his place. Otherwise one could argue that Ike Ibeabuchi was the greatest heavyweight of his era.

He fought more than that. He also fought Holyfield 3 times. He also had beat several fringe contenders on his way up before he had reached his prime. He is light years above Ike Ibeabuchi.

[Ambling Alp II]

OK, we have beat the Bowe thing to death. It has been done on other threads many times. Lets look at fighters who were mentioned.
How about say Max Schemling ? Had some big wins and some key losses.
How about Harry Wills ?

[DrDuke]

Oh, them bruises, cuts and broken jaws are so descriptive, yeah. Let's judge fights by them, who gives a damn about landed punches. If a fighter lands 10 of them without cutting opponent's face, who would a give f*ck about it, when his opponent will land a single razor sharp cut making punch! And I'm sure, Golota wanted so much to escape from beating the sh!t out of Bowe in the 9th round of the 10 round fight, yeah.

Well he obviously did want to escape because he couldn't stop getting himself disqualified, again, despite being warned repeatedly.

If Golota wanted out of this fight, that's only because he was sorry for Bowe, who was totally beaten up and could barely stand on his feet.

[Onamastus]

Well he obviously did want to escape because he couldn't stop getting himself disqualified, again, despite being warned repeatedly.

If Golota wanted out of this fight, that's only because he was sorry for Bowe, who was totally beaten up and could barely stand on his feet.

You've just lost the argument.

[DrDuke]

If Golota wanted out of this fight, that's only because he was sorry for Bowe, who was totally beaten up and could barely stand on his feet.

You've just lost the argument.

You've just repeated your point, I don't see why I should do the same.

[oogiebe]

I've always been taking Bowe's bouts vs Golota as Bowe's losses. He was beaten up. Golota gave away both those wins.

They were boxing matches not no holds barred fights. Why did Golota give the fight away, charity?

Golota had him beat both times. The big retard's corner was imploring him to NOT go to the body in fear of a low blow DQ and what does he do? Dumbass.

[margaret thatcher]

Who had the better resume, Kenny Norton or the Ridster?

[DrDuke]

Who had the better resume, Kenny Norton or the Ridster?

Norton beat a bit declined and already defeated Ali, controversally edged Young and stopped Quarry, also controversally, in a good scrap though. Bowe beat prime and undefeated Holyfield confidently and then he was the first to KO Holyfield, who was already beaten not once and a bit declined. Also he has two wins over Golota, where he was beaten up twice, as we've already disscussed. Those were the elite level wins.

Both had arguable losses. Norton's one was to Ali, Bowe's one was to Holyfied in the 2nd bout. Norton also has a respectable loss to prime Holmes in a great slugfest.

Among the big, but not elite wins for Norton the Bobick and Cobb (arguable one) wins can be named. In Bowe's case there were Dokes (was quite past prime), Tubbs, Seldon, Coetzer, Hide, Gonzalez, Thomas (way past it).

Norton's career lowlights were when he was crushed by Foreman and Shavers. LeDoux and Cobb bouts weren't convincing either, but Norton was past prime then. In Cooney bout too, so it's not that damaging for his resume. In Bowe's case those were Golota "wins".

If to rate the quality of their mutual win list, I'd go this way:

1. Holyfield I
2. Ali
3. Holyfield III
4. Young
5. Quarry
And then the bunch of lesser wins is better for Bowe.

Overall I'd pick Bowe over Norton.

[Ambling Alp II]

I would agree with most of that. It's clear that Bowe is somewhere in the Top 20.

As for Norton, I would say that their are some gray areas. When he was bombed out by Shavers he was not shot but was past his best. He was 35 and the Holmes fight took a lot out of him. (Still have to give some credit to Shavers)
How much criticism he should get for the loss to Garcia early in his career is hard to say.

The Bobick fight was a big deal at the time. He scored a big win. Bobick didn't look good after that so the win seemed to mean less.

He did beat some fringe contenders who in some eras would have been ranked in the Top 10 such as Henry Clark and Boone Kirkman.

Was Norton better than say Jersey Joe Walcott?
He was mediocre for several years before he finally got a good trainer.
He had the 8 fights with Louis, Charles and Marciano.
He had some other nice wins. Did lose once to Rex Layne.

[DrDuke]

Was Norton better than say Jersey Joe Walcott?
He was mediocre for several years before he finally got a good trainer.
He had the 8 fights with Louis, Charles and Marciano.
He had some other nice wins. Did lose once to Rex Layne.

Yes, Norton was better. Walcott objectively won the past prime Louis, but then got KOed by him in the rematch. On paper Walcott won only Charles in the great trio of Louis, Charles and Marciano. Marciano fight #1 was competetive, but still Walcott was stopped and KOed in the 1st in the rematch, where he surrendered by some opinions. Norton's win over near-prime Ali is bigger, than anything of that. And Norton was a top fighter of his era for a longer period of time.

[Cojimar 1946]

Bowe fought a grand total of 3 opponents I would classify as world class.

That's not enough to give us a good measure of how he rates in his own era. He would need to fight more of his contemporaries to establish his place. Otherwise one could argue that Ike Ibeabuchi was the greatest heavyweight of his era.

He fought more than that. He also fought Holyfield 3 times. He also had beat several fringe contenders on his way up before he had reached his prime. He is light years above Ike Ibeabuchi.

Fighting Holyfield multiple times only tells us how he does against Holyfield. They don't tell us how he does against Lewis, Ruddock, Witherspoon, Tucker and all the top contemporary heavyweights he conveniently failed to face.

I don't see how wins over the likes of Jesse Ferguson help Bowe's case.

In Bowe's case we can point to good performances against exactly two of the top fighters of his era. Tony Tubbs and Evander Holyfield. How can you evaluate him even within his own era given how few quality opponents he faced?

That's an incredibly thin resume if your trying to make a case for top 30 let alone top 20.

[Cojimar 1946]

Norton's legacy would probaby be a lot better had he retired after beating Young or at the latest after the Holmes fight. He had some really bad losses later in his career.

[Ambling Alp II]

The Cooney fight and the draw with Ledoux should be thrown out when ranking him. The Shavers fight is a gray area.

As for Bowe- You can keep saying Bowe has a "thin resume" until you are blue in the face. People have explained why this is not the case and you just keep ignoring it. btw- Witherspoon and Tucker were not contenders when Bowe was on top. They off fighting stiffs and for the most part were out of the picture. Bowe signed to fight Lewis, but that fell through when Lewis lost to McCall.
.

[Onetimeonly]

Lol, the Holmes fight is a positive for Norton's resume. I hate it when this dude crawls out from under his rock.

[Cojimar 1946]

When I say Bowe has a thin resume I mean in terms of world-class opponents of whom I would say only 3 qualify-Tubbs, Holyfield, and Golota. The other guys he beat were no more than journeyman-level. He beat plenty of Lou Savarese level fighters but that really doesn't tell us much because these are guys who tend to lose whenever they try stepping up in class and often even when they don't.

by contrast Lennox Lewis beat at least 11 guys I would classify as a world class-Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno, Mercer, McCall, Akinwande, Golota, Holyfield, Tua, Rahman, Klitschko.

Mike Tyson beat 10-Berbick, Smith, Tucker, Thomas, Tubbs, Holmes, Spinks, Bruno, Williams, Ruddock
Holyfield beat at least 9-Dokes, Douglas, Holmes, Bowe, Mercer, Tyson, Moorer, Ruiz, and Rahman

[Onamastus]

Serious question. What makes Henry Akinwande a significant win? He literally never beat anyone of consequence and lost in appalling performances.

[Onetimeonly]

Serious question. What makes Henry Akinwande a significant win? He literally never beat anyone of consequence and lost in appalling performances.

Nothing, Alex Stewart was more quality.