The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

[elmersalsa]

well, he didn't make the cut for the top 100.
However, he is number 90. Hope that helps.
And he has been talking about him for more than three months now.

LMFAO! 10 Fighters in 400 posts. This is hysterical.

Thanks. I hope that you are learning a lot about this great fighter.

[elmersalsa]

All I can say about James Toney vs Vassiliy Jirov is "What a fight!"

Toney REDEEMED HIMSELF and re-established his career when he became the IBF World Cruiserweight Champion when he defeated the undefeated champion from the former Soviet Union. It was a fight so great and underrated that if you haven't seen it, it is a must see fight before you die. A very action-packed contest.

Toney used all his skills and experience at 35 to defeat a formidable champion that was taller, bigger and stronger than he. Jirov was a non-stop performer in this fight. Each round was better as the fight progressed.

It was to me, James Toney 2.0 RELOAD. Maybe the gutsiest fight of his career where he had to dig deep, deeper than when he fought Michael Nunn to win his middleweight crown 12 years earlier.

I was wrong to put TONEY out of the top 100 greatest pound per pound fighters ever. HE deserves to be in it in any which way you like it. HE probably would have smacked me around for not to put him with the 100 greats, and deservedly so he should. How CAN I missed greatness in front of my eyes? How did it happened? I don't know. But, with this win, James "Lights Out" Toney proved that he indeed is one of the greatest. HE just didn't had the superstar appeal like the great Roy Jones, Jr.

[elmersalsa]

And also my hat goes off to Vassiliy Jirov. He fought like a real champion should. Like a man that would do anything to keep his crown.

There were talks about a rematch. But, my question is, why it didn't happened?

[elmersalsa]

I had Toney winning the fight 115-112. I just sometimes wish If the fight was 15 rounds. The knockdown at the end, sealed it for Toney.

[elmersalsa]

I have to give credit to James Toney AFTER beating Vassiliy Jirov. Instead of making some title defenses of his new crown at cruiserweight, he went right up to heavyweight to face the legendary champion Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield.

Holyfield was on a bad streak. Of HIS last 8 fights, Holy only won 2 fights. He was 41 years old and in decline for some years before hand. But, the impressive thing about this fight was that how an overblown former middleweight, at 5'10", and ballooning to 217lbs, totally dominated him.

Was it that Evander was shot? Or simply Toney was that great? Nobody ever dominated Evander in that fashion. Would have Toney done the trick in Holyfield's prime?

Holyfield win 3 of the first 4 rounds in my view. BUT, after round 4, it was all Toney's. He gave Holyfield a beating, using some extraordinary inside fighting. He finally stopped him in the 9th. I felt bad for Holyfield after that. A man that gave us so many unforgettable moments inside the ring.


NEXT, I saw how Toney easily dominated WBA World Heavyweight Champion, John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz of Puerto Rico via Worcester, MA by decision in 12. But, the NY Boxing Commission discovered a banned substance inside Toney's body and the title was given back to Ruiz. The fight was ruled a NO-CONTEST. That was a total bullshit to the 5th level. Toney would have whupped that chump with or without the banned substance.

What did it do to Toney's legacy? It hurt his ranking among the all time greatest boxers and also prevented him from winning a fourth world championship in boxing. It prevented him from being the third middleweight champion boxer ever to win a piece of the heavyweight title.

[elmersalsa]

WHAT can I say about James "Lights Out" Toney's performance against two-time WBC World Heavyweight Champion Hasim "The Rock" Rahman? Just one word: EMBARRASSING!

And EMBARRASSING it was. Some boxers got the blessing to make things all right the second time since the first time he messed up. By having a banned substance in his body in his fight with Champion John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz in a No Contest fight, Toney blew it again. It was a second shot at true greatness to enhance his legacy. But just like Toney blows by eating every meal in the kitchen, he certainly blew it again coming to the ring at 238 pounds. That was one of his many mistakes.

The second mistake was his preparations for the fight. No roadwork. No heavy bag punching. No speed bag. And no jumping rope. Definitely, no lifting of weights for his upper body and legs' strength. That is not in his itinerary. His preparation for this fight was only sparring and eating. The more he eats and gets fat, the bigger the boxing trunks.

But that's James "Lights Out" Toney. Are we surprised? No. Does he gives two cents of what they think about him? No. For him, you can kiss his black ass, no matter what you think about him. Did he really cared about his legacy? SOMETIMES. But mostly, all he cared was eating and fighting. BECAUSE according to him, his skills will carry him to victory.

HE survived this fight because of his high level boxing IQ. But Rahman had the high level training and it paid off. I saw him win the fight because he was the busier man and he wanted it more, even though his punches weren't putting a flyweight out to sleep. I had it 117-112 in favor of Rahman.

MAYBE is that this is why I rated Toney that low on the all time 100 greatest pound per pound rankings. He HAD absolute great skills when ready. But looked very EMBARRASSING when he didn't care.

[elmersalsa]

James Toney 2 fights with future heavyweight champion Samuel Peter of Nigeria indicated to me that he didn't belong in the heavyweight class. YES, he whupped the great former champ Evander Holyfield. It was one of Toney's greatest wins of his career, but that wasn't The Real Deal in his prime.

His next fights with seasoned champion Hasim Rahman and young and upcoming Peter told us that if Toney ever step into the ring with one of the Klitschkos he would certainly be hurt......bad!

He would have been too small and underweight for those gigantic brothers from Ukraine. We know that Toney would have accepted the challenge, because he had the heart of the size of his native Michigan, but were glad that those fights didn't happen.

You CAN say that probably he was robbed in his first fight with Peter, but the second fight for the WBC World title eliminator suggested that Toney should have hang the gloves for good, even though his high IQ boxing skills made him survive against the BIG DOGS the heavyweights. Peter beat him outright.

Then a couple of fights later, he fights Rahman again. The fight ended as a TKO win for Toney in round 3 only to be reversed as a no-contest. In his last big fight with a top heavyweight contender in 2008 vs Fres Oquendo of Puerto Rico, Toney won, but wasn't impressive. He should have quit right then. IRONICALLY, Toney finally quits 9 years later in 2017.

[Onetimeonly]

[elmersalsa]

James "Lights Out" Toney quits at age 49 with a record of 77-10-3 with 2 No-Contests and 47 knockouts.

I am proud to say that I enjoyed to watch him fight. HE was one of my favorite fighters. So far in the countdown, I got 4 of my favorite fighters ever in the countdown: (Vicente Saldivar at #98, Mike Tyson at #96, Eusebio Pedroza at #95 and James Toney at #90.) ALL of them terrific fighters.

[elmersalsa]

NEXT in the countdown we have a true special fighter that fought the best middleweights around. HE is one of the few to beat the great Harry Greb, twice. His name? Tiger Flowers, THE GEORGIA DEACON.

[Ambling Alp II]

What is the big rush? You have only been talking about Toney since December 19 of last year. If you rush through Tiger Flowers like this, it will barely be August before you are already moving on to the next time. Please, take your time.

[elmersalsa]

What is the big rush? You have only been talking about Toney since December 19 of last year. If you rush through Tiger Flowers like this, it will barely be August before you are already moving on to the next time. Please, take your time.

I never said I was rushing. I am giving the greats their just due. TELL me, what do you think of the great James Toney?

[elmersalsa]

And at #89, we have a very good fighter. So far, the list goes like this:
100. Jersey Joe Walcott
99. Sonny Liston
98. Vicente Saldivar
97. Gene Fullmer
96. Mike Tyson
95. Eusebio Pedroza
94. Benny Lynch
93. Jack Britton
92. Tommy Ryan
91. Mike McCallum
90. James Toney

#89. Tiger Flowers
Record: 118-15-8(17NC), 54KOs
KOpct 46%
Career: 1918-27
Titles Held: World Middleweight Champion (1926)

Highlights: World Middleweight Champion. Won his first 20 fights. Went unbeaten in 42 fights from November 1923 to January 1925. (Record: 34-0-2 (6NC), with 22 knockouts). Won 11 in a row from September to November 1924. Did not lose in his last 17 bouts. Beat 3 out of 7 world champions and 1 out of 7 hall of famers. ONE OF two men to ever beat the great Harry Greb twice. Record vs world champions is 5-5-2 (NC), with 2KOs. RECORD vs hall of fame boxers is 2-8-3 (NC) with 0KOs.

Historical Impact: In the height of his prime, was ignored and ducked by top middleweight contenders of his era, in which he had to fight other opponents in bigger weight classes. ONE of two men to ever beat the great Harry Greb twice. The other man was the great Gene Tunney. Became the first black fighter ever to win the world middleweight championship.

Defining Fight: W15 Harry Greb (II)....February 26, 1926..."First black fighter ever to win the World Middleweight Boxing Championship"
Other DefiningFights: WKO9 Gorilla Jones, WTKO3 Johnny Wilson, LKO2 Sam Langford, and D10 Maxie Rosenbloom (II), W10 Pete Latzo, and L10 Mickey Walker.


How about this guy? A terrific fighter, indeed.

[Wee Tommy]

And at #89, we have a very good fighter. So far, the list goes like this:
100. Jersey Joe Walcott
99. Sonny Liston
98. Vicente Saldivar
97. Gene Fullmer
96. Mike Tyson
95. Eusebio Pedroza
94. Benny Lynch
93. Jack Britton
92. Tommy Ryan
91. Mike McCallum
90. James Toney

#89. Tiger Flowers
Record: 118-15-8(17NC), 54KOs
KOpct 46%
Career: 1918-27
Titles Held: World Middleweight Champion (1926)

Highlights: World Middleweight Champion. Won his first 20 fights. Went unbeaten in 42 fights from November 1923 to January 1925. (Record: 34-0-2 (6NC), with 22 knockouts). Won 11 in a row from September to November 1924. Did not lose in his last 17 bouts. Beat 3 out of 7 world champions and 1 out of 7 hall of famers. ONE OF two men to ever beat the great Harry Greb twice. Record vs world champions is 5-5-2 (NC), with 2KOs. RECORD vs hall of fame boxers is 2-8-3 (NC) with 0KOs.

Historical Impact: In the height of his prime, was ignored and ducked by top middleweight contenders of his era, in which he had to fight other opponents in bigger weight classes. ONE of two men to ever beat the great Harry Greb twice. The other man was the great Gene Tunney. Became the first black fighter ever to win the world middleweight championship.

Defining Fight: W15 Harry Greb (II)....February 26, 1926..."First black fighter ever to win the World Middleweight Boxing Championship"
Other DefiningFights: WKO9 Gorilla Jones, WTKO3 Johnny Wilson, LKO2 Sam Langford, and D10 Maxie Rosenbloom (II), W10 Pete Latzo, and L10 Mickey Walker.


How about this guy? A terrific fighter, indeed.

Won via robbery vs Greb.

[elmersalsa]

Some reports say that FLOWERS WON fair and square.

[elmersalsa]

I have been trying to find any fight footage of the great Tiger Flowers on YouTube. It was useless. It is very difficult to find footage of boxers that fought before 1935.

But, what I have seen in his resume is that he fought mostly top men that outweighed him at least 15 pounds because it was difficult for him to get fights at 160. So, he tried bigger fish. Most of his fights were in his opponent's weight class. He LOST most of the time against heavier fighters like Kid Norfolk and others like the great Maxie Rosenbloom for example.

As HIS 3 fights with the great Harry Greb, the opinions are well divided. Some reporters say he was the better fighter and other would say that it was Greb. There are no films available of those 3 fights. The LAST 2 fights with Greb were for the World Middleweight Title held by Greb. Flowers won both times by a close unanimous decision.

AFTER the fights with FLOWERS, THE HUMAN WINDMILL, Harry Greb, died in the middle of his prime on an operation of one his eyes in 1926.

IRONICALLY, THE GEORGIA DEACON, Tiger Flowers, died just like Greb a year later in New York.

FLOWERS averaged 14.1 fights a year.

Anybody want to comment more about this great boxer? He accomplished a lot due to his circumstances. Also, Greb fought everybody. HE took all comers.





Iz

[watsupdoc87]

Tell us a bit more about James Toney

[elmersalsa]

Tell us a bit more about James Toney

HE was indeed a great champion. HE was very underrated and in the height of his career, he averaged about 6 or 7 fights per year. HE could have done much more in his career and boost his all time pound per pound ranking, but I don't think he really cared about his legacy. HE could have push more for multi million dollar fights, but he felt comfortable where he was at.

HE loved to fight, but did not do the necessary things like road work, skip rope and hit the heavy bag for instance, to get ready for a fight. HE loved to eat. THE bigger he was, the longer the trunks. Toney tried some heavyweights, but that was too much to ask of him. HE was too short and didn't had the punching power to put a real young heavyweight honest.

TIGER Flowers does not have any footage of his boxing career. I tried to se his fights on YouTube, but, there's none.

NOW, WE'RE talking of one of the greatest and much underrated lightweight champions ever: "Joltin" Joe "Old Bones" Brown.

[elmersalsa]

#88. Joe "Old Bones" Brown
Record: 120-47-14, (NC) with 55KOs
KO pct is 46%
Career: 1946-70
Titles Held: World Lightweight Champion (1956-62)

Highlights:World Lightweight Champion that held the crown for almost 6 years, making 11 title defenses. From January 1955 to October 1961 lost only 4 out of 40 fights. Went unbeaten in 18 fights in a row from October 1955 to July 1958. Record in that span was 17-0-1 with 10KOs. The Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year in 1961. Beat 4 out of 11 world champions he faced. (Record vs world champions is 7-8, with 1KO.) Also faced 3 hall of famers. (0-3 against them). Fought in 18 countries all over the world.

Historical Impact: Globe-Trotting lightweight king that fought in 18 countries all over the world. Was a true world champion and boxing ambassador that became the best lightweight of the 1950s decade. His second fight British champion Dave Charnley at Earl's Court Arena in London, England was The Ring Magazine Fght of the Year.

Defining Fight: W15 Dave Charnley (II)... April 18, 1961... "The Ring Fight of the Year"
Other Defining Fights: W15 Wallace "Bud" Smith (II), LTKO2 Sandy Saddler, WTKO15 Orlando Zulueta (II), W15 Kenny Lane, W10 Jimmy Carter, and L15 Carlos Ortiz.

Anyone got any more information about this great fighter. A well deserved hot career like no other. Where do you rank him at lightweight?

[elmersalsa]

Other top contenders and champions the great Old Bones beat were Battling Torres (WKO4), Cisco Andrade (W15), Paolo Rosi (WTKO9), Johnny Busso (W15), Isaac Logart (W10), Joey Lopes (WTKO11), Teddy "Red Top" Davis (W10), Lester Felton (W10), Ralph Dupas (W10) and Virgil Akins (W10 twice).

The great Joe Brown beat about 14 top men in the lightweight ranks.

[elmersalsa]

Examining the career of the great Joe "Old Bones" Brown, a very interesting one. A very intestinal fighter.

I just wished that he should have retired after losing on points to the great Carlos Ortiz of Puerto Rico. HE had an abysmal record of 20-24-2 with only 4 KOs. HE was 35 when he lost his lightweight crown to ORTIZ.

I am also a little upset that there is not enough fight films on YOUTUBE. Especially the majority of his title bouts. Only a few of his bouts are available. I know that there are more videotapes of his fights.

And what a fighter he was! HE was one of the great ring technicians that I have ever seen on film. HE had a fluid style. Very effective. HE was a beautiful boxer that used the ring well, moving from side to side and great speed out boxing his opponents. I loved how he threw that left and right uppercut. A thing of beauty! Old Bones was very smooth about his craft. Now I can see why he reigned for a long time, making 11 title defenses, a lightweight division record until the great Roberto Duran broke it 16 years later.

How do you see him in a fight with Duran or with any of the lightweight greats?

[elmersalsa]

OLD Bones FOUGHT ind 18 countries all over the world. Among the countries that he visited and had fights there are Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, South Africa, Mozambique, Mexico, Panama, Jamaica, Italy, England, and Finland.

[elmersalsa]

I have seen the great Carlos Ortiz taking the crown from this long-reining champ Joe Brown. Brown looked old and gun shy. He didn't had it that night of April 21, 1962.

OLD Bones should have retired after that. Then, a previous victim, British champion Dave Charnley stopped him in their third fight in 1963 when Brown already beaten Charnley twice. I think that Brown should have retired after that. He was used as an escalator and test for young guns that were trying to establish themselves in the pro ranks, and that didn't looked good for a guy like OLD Bones stature. In his next 44 fights after losing the crown to ORTIZ, Brown went 20-24-2 with only 4 knockouts.

I just want that YOUTUBE show more of his fights. HE was beautiful to see. A beautiful boxer!

[elmersalsa]

Next at number 87, we have one of England's greatest boxers ever: Ted "Kid" Lewis!

[elmersalsa]

#87. Ted "Kid" Lewis
Record: 193-30-14 (65NDs) with 82KOs
KO Pct is 42%
Career: 1909-29
Titles Held: Two-time World Welterweight Champion (1915-16, 1917-19)

Highlights: Started pro boxing career at the age of 15. By the time before his 20th birthday, was already a ring veteran of 136 professional bouts, averaging 27.2 fights a year! Had only 1 defeat in 25 fights from February 1910 to February 1911. (Record: 21-1-3 with 7KOs). Went unbeaten in 46 contests, winning 30 in a row from September 1911 to March 1912. Went again unbeaten in 28 straight bouts from October 1912 to June 1914. And from October 1919 to June 1920, won 12 fights in a row. Fought 7 world champions, beating 3 of them. His record against title holders is 6-8-1 (17NDs) with 1KO. Fought 8 hall of famers, beating only 1 of them. Record vs hall of fame boxers is 3-7-1 (18NDs) with 1KO. Was British featherweight, welterweight, middleweight and light-heavyweight champion. Was also European featherweight, welterweight and middleweight champ.

Historical Impact: One of the greatest boxers that ever come out of England and also, one of the all-time greatest welterweights. The best welterweight of the 1910s decade. Longevity, consistency and relentless approach combined with a high volume of fights made him a crowd favorite of the 1910s and early 1920s decade. Had a high profile great rivalry with fellow hall of famer and champion Jack Britton of New York. With Britton, he fought a series of 20 times, making the rivalry one of boxing's all-time best. The record rivalry with Britton is 3-4-1 (12NDs) with 0KOs

Defining Fight: W12 Jack Britton (II)..... August 31, 1915..... "In the beginning of a long rivalry, Lewis becomes world champ"
Other Defining Fights: W12 Mike Glover, WKO12 Matt Wells, W15 Joe Mandot, L20 Jack Britton (VI), W20 Jack Bloomfield and LKO1 Georges Carpentier.

HOW about this fella?