ALL TIME HEAVYWEIGHT RATINGS/RANKINGS

[Cojimar 1946]

I would count Akinwande because he consistently won against journeymen/gatekeeper opponents and his only prime losses were to top guys like Lennox Lewis and Oliver McCall.

Jeremy Williams, Orlin Norris, Axel Schulz, and the like were not world beaters but they are the kind of guys I would expect to trip up someone who is not world class. And he consistently won against that level of opposition without much trouble.

The only top 10 guy Akinwande beat in my book is Alexander Zolkin.

As far as Alex Stewart goes, in my humble opinion guys like Zolkin, Norris, and Schulz while not exceptional by any means are still better wins than anything Alex Stewart has on his resume. I guess Schulz might be debateable but Norris and Zolkin seem at least slightly better.

[Tony1244]

Norton beat a bit declined and already defeated Ali, controversally edged Young and stopped Quarry, also controversally, in a good scrap though.
[/quote]

At first I thought how was Norton-Quarry controversial? But you're right it was, or should have been. There was clearly an accidental headbutt at the start of round 2 or 3 that opened the cut.

[Onetimeonly]

Someday, coji, you have to start watching fights.

[Ambling Alp II]

He might actually like it. That is how some of us became fans.

Anyway, cojimar acts like Lewis has 11 wins against "world class opponents" (i.e. who he considers in the top 10) Tyson and Holyfield had almost as many. But Bowe only had 2, therefore he wasn't nearly as good. nothing more to see here.

There a lot of problems with this reasoning. for instance:
1. A win over the best fighter is the same as a guy who is about 10th. So a win over Bruno, McCall or example is counts as much as a win over a prime Holyfield. That's ridiculous.

2. He completely disregards rematches. So Bowes 2nd win over Holyfield means absolutely nothing. That's ridiculous.

3. He doesn't count losses at all. So it doesn't count that Bowe only lost once to Holyfield while Lewis lost to McCall and Rahman.

4. Wins over guys a decent fighter while a fighter is coming up and still improving don't count for anything. So Bowes wins over Coetzer, Seldon, Biggs, Thomas etc. don't count at all. That's ridiculous.

5. It doesn't matter in this particular instance, but he counts a win over a top 10 guy in a weak era just as much a top 10 guy in another era.

6. He completely disregards what he sees with his own eyes as far as the quality of a fighters performance, regardless of the opponent. To a certain extent, you have to trust your own judgement and what you are seeing.

[DrDuke]

Norton beat a bit declined and already defeated Ali, controversally edged Young and stopped Quarry, also controversally, in a good scrap though.

At first I thought how was Norton-Quarry controversial? But you're right it was, or should have been. There was clearly an accidental headbutt at the start of round 2 or 3 that opened the cut.
[/quote]

There was also a small controversy, when in the last round Quarry caught Norton inside and Ken was a bit dazed and moved backwards by the shot. Quarry moved forward to continue the success, but the ref separated them. Later in the round Kenny took over.

[Tony1244]

Norton beat a bit declined and already defeated Ali, controversally edged Young and stopped Quarry, also controversally, in a good scrap though.

At first I thought how was Norton-Quarry controversial? But you're right it was, or should have been. There was clearly an accidental headbutt at the start of round 2 or 3 that opened the cut.

There was also a small controversy, when in the last round Quarry caught Norton inside and Ken was a bit dazed and moved backwards by the shot. Quarry moved forward to continue the success, but the ref separated them. Later in the round Kenny took over.
[/quote]

I'll look at that. The first quote wasn't mine, but I've made the same mistake before.

Don't see Quarry hurting Ken at all in the 5th round. But there was a clash of heads at the start of round 2.

[Onetimeonly]

He might actually like it. That is how some of us became fans.

Anyway, cojimar acts like Lewis has 11 wins against "world class opponents" (i.e. who he considers in the top 10) Tyson and Holyfield had almost as many. But Bowe only had 2, therefore he wasn't nearly as good. nothing more to see here.

There a lot of problems with this reasoning. for instance:
1. A win over the best fighter is the same as a guy who is about 10th. So a win over Bruno, McCall or example is counts as much as a win over a prime Holyfield. That's ridiculous.

2. He completely disregards rematches. So Bowes 2nd win over Holyfield means absolutely nothing. That's ridiculous.

3. He doesn't count losses at all. So it doesn't count that Bowe only lost once to Holyfield while Lewis lost to McCall and Rahman.

4. Wins over guys a decent fighter while a fighter is coming up and still improving don't count for anything. So Bowes wins over Coetzer, Seldon, Biggs, Thomas etc. don't count at all. That's ridiculous.

5. It doesn't matter in this particular instance, but he counts a win over a top 10 guy in a weak era just as much a top 10 guy in another era.

6. He completely disregards what he sees with his own eyes as far as the quality of a fighters performance, regardless of the opponent. To a certain extent, you have to trust your own judgement and what you are seeing.

He's a troll. Akinwande is quality because of consistency against journeyman!!!

Stewart lost competitively in losses to moorer and evander and beat the crap out of still better than akinwande ever was foreman.

He just reads the records and trolls them. Unlike most he mixes up the generations he'd spewing bs on so some take him mildly seriously. Never respond more than once.

[Onamastus]

I would count Akinwande because he consistently won against journeymen/gatekeeper opponents and his only prime losses were to top guys like Lennox Lewis and Oliver McCall.

Jeremy Williams, Orlin Norris, Axel Schulz, and the like were not world beaters but they are the kind of guys I would expect to trip up someone who is not world class. And he consistently won against that level of opposition without much trouble.

The only top 10 guy Akinwande beat in my book is Alexander Zolkin.

As far as Alex Stewart goes, in my humble opinion guys like Zolkin, Norris, and Schulz while not exceptional by any means are still better wins than anything Alex Stewart has on his resume. I guess Schulz might be debateable but Norris and Zolkin seem at least slightly better.

So Bowe's only 'Cojimar top 10' opponents are Holyfield, Tubbs and Golota, yet you think Alex Zolkin is a top 10 quality fighter? That is laughable. Bowe has tons of wins better than Alex Zolkin. Cracked up versions of Tubbs and Hunter schooled Zolkin.

The further you expand on your thinking the worse it gets. Your brain is like one of those computer sims where guys like Maurice Harris KO Muhammad Ali.

[Onamastus]

Understood now. Troll. No more engagement.

[Tony1244]

I would count Akinwande because he consistently won against journeymen/gatekeeper opponents and his only prime losses were to top guys like Lennox Lewis and Oliver McCall.

Jeremy Williams, Orlin Norris, Axel Schulz, and the like were not world beaters but they are the kind of guys I would expect to trip up someone who is not world class. And he consistently won against that level of opposition without much trouble.

The only top 10 guy Akinwande beat in my book is Alexander Zolkin.

As far as Alex Stewart goes, in my humble opinion guys like Zolkin, Norris, and Schulz while not exceptional by any means are still better wins than anything Alex Stewart has on his resume. I guess Schulz might be debateable but Norris and Zolkin seem at least slightly better.

Count Akinwande as what? Having existed?

[oogiebe]

I would count Akinwande because he consistently won against journeymen/gatekeeper opponents and his only prime losses were to top guys like Lennox Lewis and Oliver McCall.

Jeremy Williams, Orlin Norris, Axel Schulz, and the like were not world beaters but they are the kind of guys I would expect to trip up someone who is not world class. And he consistently won against that level of opposition without much trouble.

The only top 10 guy Akinwande beat in my book is Alexander Zolkin.

As far as Alex Stewart goes, in my humble opinion guys like Zolkin, Norris, and Schulz while not exceptional by any means are still better wins than anything Alex Stewart has on his resume. I guess Schulz might be debateable but Norris and Zolkin seem at least slightly better.

Count Akinwande as what? Having existed?

How the f are we discussing Henry Akinholdie?

[Tony1244]

Count Akinwande as what? Having existed?

How the f are we discussing Henry Akinholdie?

Just looked him up. He was born in the UK and moved to Tallahassee, Florida. Not sure he's even top ten all time if you only count fighters who were born in the UK and moved to Tallahassee, Florida.

[oogiebe]

How the f are we discussing Henry Akinholdie?

Just looked him up. He was born in the UK and moved to Tallahassee, Florida. Not sure he's even top ten all time if you only count fighters who were born in the UK and moved to Tallahassee, Florida.

[Tony1244]

Just looked him up. He was born in the UK and moved to Tallahassee, Florida. Not sure he's even top ten all time if you only count fighters who were born in the UK and moved to Tallahassee, Florida.

As Bert Sugar used to say, "I'm not sure he (Akinwande) is a household name in his own household."

[Cojimar 1946]

He might actually like it. That is how some of us became fans.

Anyway, cojimar acts like Lewis has 11 wins against "world class opponents" (i.e. who he considers in the top 10) Tyson and Holyfield had almost as many. But Bowe only had 2, therefore he wasn't nearly as good. nothing more to see here.

There a lot of problems with this reasoning. for instance:
1. A win over the best fighter is the same as a guy who is about 10th. So a win over Bruno, McCall or example is counts as much as a win over a prime Holyfield. That's ridiculous.

2. He completely disregards rematches. So Bowes 2nd win over Holyfield means absolutely nothing. That's ridiculous.

3. He doesn't count losses at all. So it doesn't count that Bowe only lost once to Holyfield while Lewis lost to McCall and Rahman.

4. Wins over guys a decent fighter while a fighter is coming up and still improving don't count for anything. So Bowes wins over Coetzer, Seldon, Biggs, Thomas etc. don't count at all. That's ridiculous.

5. It doesn't matter in this particular instance, but he counts a win over a top 10 guy in a weak era just as much a top 10 guy in another era.

6. He completely disregards what he sees with his own eyes as far as the quality of a fighters performance, regardless of the opponent. To a certain extent, you have to trust your own judgement and what you are seeing.

Some good points made but I'm having trouble seeing how wins over Coetzer, Seldon, Biggs, shot Thomas, etc are in any way relevant aside from showing Bowe is world class which I never disputed. These are the types of guys that top 10 guys are supposed to beat. Bowe was world-class for roughly 5 years so he is supposed to dispose of Coetzer and Seldon types. It would be shocking if he didn't given how they fared against other elite opponents.

[Cojimar 1946]

I would count Akinwande because he consistently won against journeymen/gatekeeper opponents and his only prime losses were to top guys like Lennox Lewis and Oliver McCall.

Jeremy Williams, Orlin Norris, Axel Schulz, and the like were not world beaters but they are the kind of guys I would expect to trip up someone who is not world class. And he consistently won against that level of opposition without much trouble.

The only top 10 guy Akinwande beat in my book is Alexander Zolkin.

As far as Alex Stewart goes, in my humble opinion guys like Zolkin, Norris, and Schulz while not exceptional by any means are still better wins than anything Alex Stewart has on his resume. I guess Schulz might be debateable but Norris and Zolkin seem at least slightly better.

So Bowe's only 'Cojimar top 10' opponents are Holyfield, Tubbs and Golota, yet you think Alex Zolkin is a top 10 quality fighter? That is laughable. Bowe has tons of wins better than Alex Zolkin. Cracked up versions of Tubbs and Hunter schooled Zolkin.

The further you expand on your thinking the worse it gets. Your brain is like one of those computer sims where guys like Maurice Harris KO Muhammad Ali.

So which of Bowe's other opponents are comparable with say David Tua or Oliver McCall or Vitali Klitschko?
Lewis having a deeper resume doesn't seem in any way arguable.

Hide and Donald are probably Bowe's 4th and 5th best opponents and Vitali beat them easily. Seldon lost to McCall, etc.

If you don't think Akinwande was elite and we take him out of Lewis's resume we are still left with more than 3x as many quality wins.

[Onamastus]

So Bowe's only 'Cojimar top 10' opponents are Holyfield, Tubbs and Golota, yet you think Alex Zolkin is a top 10 quality fighter? That is laughable. Bowe has tons of wins better than Alex Zolkin. Cracked up versions of Tubbs and Hunter schooled Zolkin.

The further you expand on your thinking the worse it gets. Your brain is like one of those computer sims where guys like Maurice Harris KO Muhammad Ali.

So which of Bowe's other opponents are comparable with say David Tua or Oliver McCall or Vitali Klitschko?
Lewis having a deeper resume doesn't seem in any way arguable.

Hide and Donald are probably Bowe's 4th and 5th best opponents and Vitali beat them easily. Seldon lost to McCall, etc.

Your reply has no connection to what I said.

F%ck off, troll.

[Cojimar 1946]

So which of Bowe's other opponents are comparable with say David Tua or Oliver McCall or Vitali Klitschko?
Lewis having a deeper resume doesn't seem in any way arguable.

Hide and Donald are probably Bowe's 4th and 5th best opponents and Vitali beat them easily. Seldon lost to McCall, etc.

Your reply has no connection to what I said.

F%ck off, troll.

Sure it does, I had pointed out Lewis had a deeper resume before you got sidetracked with Akinwande. Removing Akinwande hardly makes much difference in resume depth.

If you don't think much of Akinwande or anyone he beat that hardly makes much difference to my general argument.

[Onetimeonly]

Eo can't leave history entirely alone.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

He's a troll.

- Lessee, Dal posts debatable content at a .54 a day rate while your fat oafery posts at a 14.38 rate as quite the dullard.


Meanwhile IBRO updated their rankings here after a 15 year gap.

http://www.ibroresearch.com/2020/03/heavyweight/

The Louis guys been dropping so now the Ali generation has it's say, but soon they'll be dropping out and then what? Nonetheless for limited 123 two dimensional thinkers, IBRO is for this topic with over 100 electors.

My objection is dropping the eminent Harry Wills for fat oaf Big Dummy Bowe who took years to be elected to the HOF.

If Harry ain't good enough, this the 111th anniversary of the truly most epic knockdown, drag out fight in history, a 49 rd fight to the finish of Joe Jeannette vs Sam McVea won by Joe via KO when Sam could no longer answer the bell after near 40 Knockdowns between them.

Joe a vastly underrated heavy with a superb record and post career trumps 10 fold over the punchdrunken thuggery of Big Dummy and his greasy, sleazy manager.

Btw, his KO of Field was the most dangerously blatant rabbit foul ever recorded. After knocking Field face first into the ropes, he might as well used a crowbar as he unloaded a free shot.

But fat oafs gotta keep each other belly bucked up. So be it.

[Ambling Alp II]

Mostly gibberish, but broughton rules did bring up Wills.

Wills seems like an interesting case. Did pretty well against Langford, McVey, and Jeannette, though they were not in their prime for many of these fights. Knocked out Fulton early and dominated Firpo.

What do you guys think of him? top 20?

[Cojimar 1946]

He might slip in towards the bottom. It would have been nice if he had been able to face Dempsey and Greb but still at least among the best of his era. Maybe in the 15-20 range.

[Ambling Alp II]

Sharkey, Schmeling, Baer always interested me. They weren't the most consistent guys, but certainly were good. On film, Baer always seems to me to be the worst of the three, but he had some good wins.
Not sure these guys are quite top 20.

[dr_devious]

Mostly gibberish, but broughton rules did bring up Wills.

Wills seems like an interesting case. Did pretty well against Langford, McVey, and Jeannette, though they were not in their prime for many of these fights. Knocked out Fulton early and dominated Firpo.

What do you guys think of him? top 20?

I reckon Wills is top 20 and Schmelling might just squeak in too