What if Ken Norton would have been awarded a win in the third fight against Muhammad Ali?

[DrDuke]

Yeah, if to close eyes on Lewis-Holyfield bouts, Holyfield's resume seems to be a bit better, majorly because he has wins over Bowe and the better version of Tyson. But they both has terrific resumes. I'd say, the 90s presented the highest concentration of talents and tough challenges, the competitors became bigger, badder, more advanced. Holyfield and Lewis beat the best opposition back then and symbolically meet at the end of the decade to determine, who is the King of this era. We know, what happened after that. And Lewis even reigned further. That's why Lewis is the best ever, by my vision.

Foreman too for Holyfield.

And of course you can notch Vitali for Lennox Lewis, who would go on to be one of the dominant Heavyweights of the next several years following his retirement (well...with the exception of his lengthy hiatus)

Right, those wins were very important respectively for both Holy and Lennox. Moreover, Klitschko win is important for Lewis not only in terms of the nature of Klitschko's further status, but also because of the fact, that Lewis demonstrated great heart and guts after appearing out of shape, not-prepared for the level of the opposition and after blowing the first two rounds. Contrary to the general narrow-minded belief, that "Klitschko was ahead!", I see that fight even, 3-3 in rounds, with Lewis taking the last two decisively, which means, that he overturned the momentum.

[gilgamesh]

Foreman too for Holyfield.

And of course you can notch Vitali for Lennox Lewis, who would go on to be one of the dominant Heavyweights of the next several years following his retirement (well...with the exception of his lengthy hiatus)

Right, those wins were very important respectively for both Holy and Lennox. Moreover, Klitschko win is important for Lewis not only in terms of the nature of Klitschko's further status, but also because of the fact, that Lewis demonstrated great heart and guts after appearing out of shape, not-prepared for the level of the opposition and after blowing the first two rounds. Contrary to the general narrow-minded belief, that "Klitschko was ahead!", I see that fight even, 3-3 in rounds, with Lewis taking the last two decisively, which means, that he overturned the momentum.

I had it 4 rounds to 2 personally for Vitali, but Lewis won the 6th decisively and I've never been one of the people that argued it shouldn't have been stopped. It obviously should've been. Vitali's eye was hanging like a mudflap for f*cks sake

I remember when it was live I was kinda upset that it was stopped, not because I was rooting for anybody but just because I was loving the fight, and wanted to see more of it.

Me and my friend after talking about what we'd just seen for a good little while did just laugh to ourselves and say "Yeah that eye was pretty f*cking bad wasn't it" and moved on

[DrDuke]

Right, those wins were very important respectively for both Holy and Lennox. Moreover, Klitschko win is important for Lewis not only in terms of the nature of Klitschko's further status, but also because of the fact, that Lewis demonstrated great heart and guts after appearing out of shape, not-prepared for the level of the opposition and after blowing the first two rounds. Contrary to the general narrow-minded belief, that "Klitschko was ahead!", I see that fight even, 3-3 in rounds, with Lewis taking the last two decisively, which means, that he overturned the momentum.

I had it 4 rounds to 2 personally for Vitali, but Lewis won the 6th decisively and I've never been one of the people that argued it shouldn't have been stopped. It obviously should've been. Vitali's eye was hanging like a mudflap for f*cks sake

I remember when it was live I was kinda upset that it was stopped, not because I was rooting for anybody but just because I was loving the fight, and wanted to see more of it.

Me and my friend after talking about what we'd just seen for a good little while did just laugh to ourselves and say "Yeah that eye was pretty f*cking bad wasn't it" and moved on

Of course, no way the stoppage should be argued. The cut was really bad.

[Ambling Alp II]

Foreman too for Holyfield.

And of course you can notch Vitali for Lennox Lewis, who would go on to be one of the dominant Heavyweights of the next several years following his retirement (well...with the exception of his lengthy hiatus)

Right, those wins were very important respectively for both Holy and Lennox. Moreover, Klitschko win is important for Lewis not only in terms of the nature of Klitschko's further status, but also because of the fact, that Lewis demonstrated great heart and guts after appearing out of shape, not-prepared for the level of the opposition and after blowing the first two rounds. Contrary to the general narrow-minded belief, that "Klitschko was ahead!", I see that fight even, 3-3 in rounds, with Lewis taking the last two decisively, which means, that he overturned the momentum.

Lewis' TKO over Klitschko is not an important win for him. He had many more that meant more. It is important in that it showed how limited Klitschko was in that he couldn't get past 6 rounds against this version of Lewis.

[DrDuke]

Right, those wins were very important respectively for both Holy and Lennox. Moreover, Klitschko win is important for Lewis not only in terms of the nature of Klitschko's further status, but also because of the fact, that Lewis demonstrated great heart and guts after appearing out of shape, not-prepared for the level of the opposition and after blowing the first two rounds. Contrary to the general narrow-minded belief, that "Klitschko was ahead!", I see that fight even, 3-3 in rounds, with Lewis taking the last two decisively, which means, that he overturned the momentum.

Lewis' TKO over Klitschko is not an important win for him. He had many more that meant more. It is important in that it showed how limited Klitschko was in that he couldn't get past 6 rounds against this version of Lewis.

What is really not important, that's your biased nonsense, parasitizing in history threads and mythical matchups. And Klitschkos are ones of the main triggers for ya.

[Ambling Alp II]

Notice that I don't bring ever them up; notice that I usually don't respond to the cheerleading that they get.
I'm not the one of these that is obsessed with them.

Some people vastly overrate the Klitschkos; Vitaly in particular.
Some people don't see why we have to talk about hem constantly; this for example is a thread about Norton and Ali and somehow we once again are talking about Vitaly Klitschkos.
Some people judge them the same way we do everyone else and come to the obvious conclusion that they weren't anywhere near as good as some people think.

Lewis' win in this fight does almost nothing for him. He stopped him in six rounds; about what one would expect if they fairly analyze them.

[margaret thatcher]

Lewis' TKO over Klitschko is not an important win for him. He had many more that meant more. It is important in that it showed how limited Klitschko was in that he couldn't get past 6 rounds against this version of Lewis.

What is really not important, that's your biased nonsense, parasitizing in history threads and mythical matchups. And Klitschkos are ones of the main triggers for ya.

True tbf, a common thing really, the people who diss a certain fighter most and say 'enough about them!' are actually among the people who discuss them most and seem compelled to respond to posts about them. not as if anyone holding a gun to their head and saying they have to, they do it themselves. alp discusses the klittys lots, he can't do without them

[Ambling Alp II]

I personally have never started a thread about him.
Don't believe I have ever brought him up without someone else mentioning him.
I usually don't bother saying anything when his name is mentioned
However, he is mentioned is constantly. If I responded 20% of the time that his name is mentioned, it would seem like I was ripping him all the time.

[margaret thatcher]

You discuss them all the time, for whatever reason, no doubt

[Nile4000]

Lesser fighters have beaten Shavers. Norton was on the downside. And Tate, though good, didn't have the strongest punch. Things could happen.

Spinks has quite a few more losses than Shavers, and several less wins.

But Leon could still hang. Think of it this way, Leon fought the greatest at his worst and beat him. Shavers couldn't do it( officially anyway).

[Onetimeonly]

Leon could potentially beat shavers, not Holmes.

[Nile4000]

If Leon caught Larry at the late 78 to late 79 period, and if he was focused, I give him a shot, and with George Benton in his corner.

[gilgamesh]

Leon could potentially beat shavers, not Holmes.

Yeah he'd at least have a shot against Shavers. That being said, I probably would pick Shavers.

[gilgamesh]

Leon could potentially beat shavers, not Holmes.

Yeah, Holmes ran him over in one sided fashion.

[gilgamesh]

If Leon caught Larry at the late 78 to late 79 period, and if he was focused, I give him a shot, and with George Benton in his corner.

He might've lasted more than 3 rounds. He wouldn't have beat Larry or been all that competitive with him.

[Onetimeonly]

Leon could potentially beat shavers, not Holmes.

Yeah he'd at least have a shot against Shavers. That being said, I probably would pick Shavers.

I'd definitely pick shavers. I don't know when he morphed from Larry to earnie. I tend to skim Nile. Leon was on point when Larry smashed him. I was cheering for him, looked good the first two.

[hhaehre]

Leon could potentially beat shavers, not Holmes.

Yeah he'd at least have a shot against Shavers. That being said, I probably would pick Shavers.

By a devastating early ko. Leon caught way to many punches to take Shavers into the late rounds.

[Nile4000]

Yeah he'd at least have a shot against Shavers. That being said, I probably would pick Shavers.

By a devastating early ko. Leon caught way to many punches to take Shavers into the late rounds.

Have Benton in his corner, and I guarantee you Shavers gets taken out by Leon in 5 rounds. All Leon has to do is nullify Holmes' jab, and he scores and upset.

[oogiebe]

By a devastating early ko. Leon caught way to many punches to take Shavers into the late rounds.

Have Benton in his corner, and I guarantee you Shavers gets taken out by Leon in 5 rounds. All Leon has to do is nullify Holmes' jab, and he scores and upset.

Or anyone else. Problem is that few could.

[gilgamesh]

By a devastating early ko. Leon caught way to many punches to take Shavers into the late rounds.

Have Benton in his corner, and I guarantee you Shavers gets taken out by Leon in 5 rounds. All Leon has to do is nullify Holmes' jab, and he scores and upset.

Yeah, that's all he has to do. Just stop one of the best jabbers in the history of Heavyweight Boxing. Given his lack of defense and significantly shorter and smaller frame what's hard about that?

You seem a bit delusional about what Leon was capable of. It was shown time and time again just how good he WASN'T.

He only managed to beat a completely shot Ali once, couldn't even do that twice.

[Counter-puncher]

Foreman too for Holyfield.

And of course you can notch Vitali for Lennox Lewis, who would go on to be one of the dominant Heavyweights of the next several years following his retirement (well...with the exception of his lengthy hiatus)

Right, those wins were very important respectively for both Holy and Lennox. Moreover, Klitschko win is important for Lewis not only in terms of the nature of Klitschko's further status, but also because of the fact, that Lewis demonstrated great heart and guts after appearing out of shape, not-prepared for the level of the opposition and after blowing the first two rounds. Contrary to the general narrow-minded belief, that "Klitschko was ahead!",

I see that fight even, 3-3 in rounds, with Lewis taking the last two decisively, which means, that he overturned the momentum.

I may have had it 4-2 Klit, I can’t remember, but i totally agree on the momentum

[Tony1244]

By a devastating early ko. Leon caught way to many punches to take Shavers into the late rounds.

Have Benton in his corner, and I guarantee you Shavers gets taken out by Leon in 5 rounds. All Leon has to do is nullify Holmes' jab, and he scores and upset.

They virtually locked Leon away and had him under house arrest to keep him away from the bars and partying before the first Ali fight and he still snuck out a few times and that barely worked.

Leon's training discipline on a scale of 1-10 was a 1. If it had been a 9 or 10? If monkeys could fly.