No Matter How Many Times I Fight Him, I Can't Beat This Guy

[Scypion]

Willie Pep beat NBA Featherweight Champion (1944-46) Sal Bartolo three times.

[Duran1970]

Forrest couldn’t beat Mayorga.
Mosley couldn’t beat Forrest.
Oscar couldn’t beat Shane.

Think the last two there fought in the amateurs, too.

I had Oscar winning one of those fights

[margaret thatcher]

Oscar deserved about 8 rounds in the rematch, very generous decision to Shane

[gilgamesh]

I thought Shane nicked it. Wasn't half as good as the first time they fought either.

Same with Forrest vs Mosley. The first fight between them was a memorable, exciting performance for Forrest.

The 2nd fight was abysmal.

[margaret thatcher]

No way did Shane deserve the rematch, he did almost nothing until the late rounds of the fight, and though he had some good moments they were way too far between

I'd be interested in anyone's rbr score for Shane winning http://www.eyeonthering.com/boxing/rede ... -mosley-ii

[gilgamesh]

No way did Shane deserve the rematch, he did almost nothing until the late rounds of the fight, and though he had some good moments they were way too far between

I'd be interested in anyone's rbr score for Shane winning http://www.eyeonthering.com/boxing/rede ... -mosley-ii

I probably have it in one of my notebooks around here somewhere. If I find it I'll post it. I'm not gonna rewatch the fight about it I know that.

[margaret thatcher]

Gotcha, to have Shane winning I imagine you gave him a bunch of early/mid rounds where he did nothing

This is one fight I did rewatch because there was a small minority 'no shane actually did deserve it!' group so I wanted to give it another look, but personally I never was able to see a good argument for him, he did way too little for like 8 rounds while Oscar was working with jabs and some combos. Late on Shane landed the best few shots but round by round that shouldn't have nearly been enough. To have him winning you need to give him rounds where he was just following a jabbing Oscar around but hardly doing anything else

Though tbf, from an official standout Oscar could not beat Shane in the pros

[gilgamesh]

Gotcha, to have Shane winning I imagine you gave him a bunch of early/mid rounds where he did nothing

This is one fight I did rewatch because there was a small minority 'no shane actually did deserve it!' group so I wanted to give it another look, but personally I never was able to see a good argument for him, he did way too little for like 8 rounds while Oscar was working with jabs and some combos. Late on Shane landed the best few shots but round by round that shouldn't have nearly been enough. To have him winning you need to give him rounds where he was just following a jabbing Oscar around but hardly doing anything else

Though tbf, from an official standout Oscar could not beat Shane in the pros

It is certainly ironic that the opinion on this one is so split yet it was a UD for Shane, while the first fight was an SD for Shane, and basically nobody believes the decision wasn't fair in that one.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, it's kinda like how Pac's loss to Bradley might have been the most one sided of their fights

[gilgamesh]

Alright. So I had it thusly

Round 1: Oscar
Round 2: Oscar
Round 3: Oscar
Round 4: Mosley
Round 5: Mosley
Round 6: Oscar
Round 7: Mosley
Round 8: Mosley
Round 9: Mosley
Round 10: Oscar
Round 11: Mosley
Round 12: Mosley

[gilgamesh]

Ya, it's kinda like how Pac's loss to Bradley might have been the most one sided of their fights

I definitely thought he beat him every bit as clearly in that one as he did in the 2nd and 3rd fights.

[Nile4000]

Kid Gavilan couldn't beat Sugar Ray Robinson in 2 tries.

[Onetimeonly]

Kid Gavilan couldn't beat Sugar Ray Robinson in 2 tries.

Those fights can't be seen.

[oogiebe]

Kid Gavilan couldn't beat Sugar Ray Robinson in 2 tries.

Those fights can't be seen.

No, but I'm sure there will be three pages of posts on the Kid in Elmer's 100 greatest thread.

[gilgamesh]

Oh and for the record. Though I posted my scorecard for the 2nd De La Hoya-Mosley fight, that's one of them fights where I remember thinking there were very few clear rounds for anybody.

Almost every round of that fight is close with either guy just kinda barely doing more than the other. At least half of that fight is toss up rounds that could've went either way.

[margaret thatcher]

I don't think Shane had an argument in pretty much any of the first 8 or so (5th is a notable exception), Oscar was keeping the jab and occasional combo going while Shane was doing nothing.

Shane rightfully looked shocked when he won despite getting the W in the first fight

[Onetimeonly]

I was pretty surprised, but happy as I'm a Shane fan and had 250 on him. Never went back to see all the body work I apparently missed. That fight sucked, the first one was a classic and incredibly easy to score. 4-2 Oscar and Mosley swept the last 6.

[gilgamesh]

I don't think Shane had an argument in pretty much any of the first 8 or so (5th is a notable exception), Oscar was keeping the jab and occasional combo going while Shane was doing nothing.

Shane rightfully looked shocked when he won despite getting the W in the first fight

He looked shocked, because he knew it had been razor thin, and therefore it would almost certainly go to Boxing's Golden Boy. Surprisingly it didn't.

I definitely think anybody swept any portion of the bout clearly.

I know HBO certainly thought Oscar dominated, and a few in the Press saw it that way.

I do remember watching it twice at the time it happened. Once with the commentary on, and once with sound muted. I think I had it a draw with commentary on, had it the way the judges had it when I watched it on mute.

[margaret thatcher]

Shane was doing eff all, he only woke up consistently by about the 8th or 9th round, he was prob surprised that he could get a decision doing so little.

I've seen it twice, including once on mute, and I just don't see at all how people think Shane won going round by round. Pretty sure it wasn't just a few guys in press who thought Oscar won either, pretty sure it's widely recognized as a questionable decision with Shane only having a minority group for him. That link I posted only had like 1 card out of 20 for Shane, he simply didn't do enough to deserve it

All that body work was never really there either, seemed more like an attempt at people to try to explain away the decision, but none of that Shane stuff really bears out watching the fight, other than the fact that he came into it more late.

9-3 Oscar is a better card than anything for Shane, but hey, Shane got it

[gilgamesh]

Well, that was the way I saw it at the time. Won't ever be seeing it again so it's forever a Shane win officially and in my book. For what that's worth. Obviously the official result was worth a lot more than my opinion.

[margaret thatcher]

True, just like Ward UD Kov and Canelo W GGG even if people disagree

[gilgamesh]

True, just like Ward UD Kov and Canelo W GGG even if people disagree

Yep, and I disagree with both those results too, but it is what it is.

That being said, I don't fault you for voicing a decision you disagree with. Obviously you can never change the result, but it's always worth noting if you didn't agree with a decision. Hell I do it if a fight comes up.

I usually try to stay away from the "robbery" word though unless it was a case where the guy was just blatantly f*cked raw, and everybody and their Mama knows it.

[Onetimeonly]

I don't even enjoy scoring anymore. I'll just make a mental note of rounds that can only go one way. Rare there's more than 6.

[bwu]

Tommy Burns knocked out Bill Squires in three heavyweight title fights, though Squires lasted longer in each fight.

Ad Wolgast went 3-0 over Battling Nelson including newspaper decisions, but was 0-2-1 with Harlem Tommy Murphy.

Young Corbett II had two knockouts and a draw against Terry McGovern.

Bob Olin was 0-3 against John Henry Lewis, one of them a loss of the light heavyweight title.

[elmersalsa]

Tommy Burns knocked out Bill Squires in three heavyweight title fights, though Squires lasted longer in each fight.

Ad Wolgast went 3-0 over Battling Nelson including newspaper decisions, but was 0-2-1 with Harlem Tommy Murphy.

Young Corbett II had two knockouts and a draw against Terry McGovern.

Bob Olin was 0-3 against John Henry Lewis, one of them a loss of the light heavyweight title.

That's one of the great examples of this topic. "Terrible" Terry McGovepplrn, as good as he was unbeatable at bantamweight and featherweight, couldn't handle Young Corbett II for some reason.