Duran vs Leonard II and Lewis vs McCall II: Your Opinions.

[elmersalsa]

The great Roberto Duran abruptly quit in the middle of the fight in the 8th round against the fabulous Sugar Ray Leonard. Until this day and time, there are more questions than answers.

Well, what is our take on Oliver McCall when he abruptly quit against the great Lennox Lewis in only 5 rounds?

The similarities:
Duran and McCall defeated their foes in the first fight.

Both of them quit in the middle of the ring, in the middle of action. Not sitting in their stools.

Leonard and Lewis were more focused second time around.

Duran nor McCall were not hurt and took every shot they got thrown at them. They looked like they were still able to continue.

Questions:
Were Duran and McCall on mental breakdowns?
Did those two realized that they weren't going to win the fight anyway?
Or they just wanted a way out because in their minds, they didn't have it?

[gilgamesh]

They were both mental breakdowns of sorts I suppose, but McCall's was definitely a lot more severe.

Duran just seemed like he was frustrated, and didn't want to be in the ring anymore at that particular time.

McCall looked like a guy who needed to be thrown into the psyche ward, and evaluated.

[Nile4000]

McCall had a mental breakdown, Duran was totally frustrated.

[littlepug]

McCall had a mental breakdown, Duran was totally frustrated.

That’s about the size of it.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Mccall said lewis hit him with the best shot he ever took. Then he saw lennox mom cheering and he had a breakdown because his mom never cared for him.

Duran offered up different reasons. He just seemed frustrated

[elmersalsa]

In both cases, when Duran and McCall entered the ring, they both seemed like they wanted to get the over with with the fight from the opening bell. If you see the tape, McCall jumped into the ring without touching the steps of it. He rushed on Lewis and I think when he saw that he couldn't do anything, he mentally decided to quit.

On Roberto's take, he came in like if he wasn't so sure of himself. His expression told that he knew he was into a long ass night. So he rushed quickly. Next thing he got, was a beautiful chopping right by Sugar Ray in the second round. By the third round, he seemed worried. In round 5, Leonard slipped in an exchange of punches and Roberto went to a neutral corner expecting an 8-count to give to Leonard. Duran did not get it. It was a slip. His expression after the slip told that he wanted to get it over with quickly. It seems to me that he wanted to quit right then. Not because of what happened in round 7.

[goose 5]

I wish Leonard used his New Orleans tactics in Montreal because I'm convinced Duran still would have defeated him. The argument that Leonard lost the first fight because he fought "Duran's fight" doesn't hold water with me.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- This place more and more is looking like The Twilight .Zone Mythical Fights forum.

1. McCall had been dragged out of three weeks of drug rehab the day of Lewis II. On his best day he ain't all there and that was hardly his best.

2. Duran had a bowel misfunction after inhaling two whole grapefruits rind, seeds and all after the weighin before inhaling two pitchers of OJ to wash down his two porterhouse dinners hours before the fight.

Howie Cosell made up No Mas. Duran actually told the ref "I'm not chasing this clown any more" to return to his corner prompting the cowardly Leonard to attack him from behind. Two min later Duran entered his dressing room straight to the pot where with much hue and cry he ejected the hot mess and was fine afterwards. Randy Gordon witnessed the spectacle in the dressing room.

Nobody then wanted to talk about it because it was an embarrassment for the networks to admit that they broadcast fights that were misbegotten from inception, the main reason they got out of the fight biz.

Ahem, Don King in control of both McCall and Duran then for perspective.

[Ambling Alp II]

I wish Leonard used his New Orleans tactics in Montreal because I'm convinced Duran still would have defeated him. The argument that Leonard lost the first fight because he fought "Duran's fight" doesn't hold water with me.

Hold water for me, because it's true.
If Leonard can be that competitive fighting Duran's fight, it stands to reason that he would beat him fighting his own.
And he did.

Duran struggled against slick boxers. Benitez out boxed him. The judges had to bail Duran out against Viruet.

People can make all the crybaby excuses they want. Duran could not handle Leonard, and quit a like a dog. Should be a giant stain on his record.

[Duran1970]

Judges did not bail out Duran against Viruet...

[Ambling Alp II]

Could have gone either way. Obviously Duran was the bigger name and was going get to the decision.

[Seamus]

The audience at Duran v Viruet I sure didn't think Duran won.

[Duran1970]

The audience at Duran v Viruet I sure didn't think Duran won.

If I was OTO I'd put up one of those laughing emojis.

[Onetimeonly]

I wish Leonard used his New Orleans tactics in Montreal because I'm convinced Duran still would have defeated him. The argument that Leonard lost the first fight because he fought "Duran's fight" doesn't hold water with me.

Leonard had to fight in Montreal and he did so admirably. Duran's level from dejesus3 through Montreal was the best of his career and couldn't last forever. That peak was too much for ray but anything but that wouldn't be enough.

[goose 5]

The judges in no way bailed out Duran against Viruet.

[elmersalsa]

The judges in no way bailed out Duran against Viruet.

When you have haters like Seamus and Ambling Alp, Duran lost every damn fight that went the distance.

[elmersalsa]

Could have gone either way. Obviously Duran was the bigger name and was going get to the decision.

I am glad that you wasn't old enough to be one of the judges of that fight.

[Seamus]

Wrong again Elmer ! I had Duran winning by a wider margin than the judges in his 2nd bout with Viruet and the Palomino fight, I had him edging Barkley and dominating the 2nd half against Minchillo.

[Duran1970]

2nd half? He won every round vs minchillo.

[oogiebe]

- This place more and more is looking like The Twilight .Zone Mythical Fights forum.

1. McCall had been dragged out of three weeks of drug rehab the day of Lewis II. On his best day he ain't all there and that was hardly his best.

2. Duran had a bowel misfunction after inhaling two whole grapefruits rind, seeds and all after the weighin before inhaling two pitchers of OJ to wash down his two porterhouse dinners hours before the fight.

Howie Cosell made up No Mas. Duran actually told the ref "I'm not chasing this clown any more" to return to his corner prompting the cowardly Leonard to attack him from behind. Two min later Duran entered his dressing room straight to the pot where with much hue and cry he ejected the hot mess and was fine afterwards. Randy Gordon witnessed the spectacle in the dressing room.

Nobody then wanted to talk about it because it was an embarrassment for the networks to admit that they broadcast fights that were misbegotten from inception, the main reason they got out of the fight biz.

Ahem, Don King in control of both McCall and Duran then for perspective.

Maddening? Isn't it?

[Tony1244]

Duran was still celebrating his first victory over Leonard, when SR smartly suggested an almost immediate rematch.

Roberto had to take off a lot of weight very quickly. He felt weak from losing weight and over ate before the rematch and cramped up and quit when he realized he was too weak, too slow, and too tired to fight effectively.

McCall had to go cold turkey on crack. I think his crying was jonzing for his fix.

[Tony1244]

- This place more and more is looking like The Twilight .Zone Mythical Fights forum.

1. McCall had been dragged out of three weeks of drug rehab the day of Lewis II. On his best day he ain't all there and that was hardly his best.

2. Duran had a bowel misfunction after inhaling two whole grapefruits rind, seeds and all after the weighin before inhaling two pitchers of OJ to wash down his two porterhouse dinners hours before the fight.

Howie Cosell made up No Mas. Duran actually told the ref "I'm not chasing this clown any more" to return to his corner prompting the cowardly Leonard to attack him from behind. Two min later Duran entered his dressing room straight to the pot where with much hue and cry he ejected the hot mess and was fine afterwards. Randy Gordon witnessed the spectacle in the dressing room.

Nobody then wanted to talk about it because it was an embarrassment for the networks to admit that they broadcast fights that were misbegotten from inception, the main reason they got out of the fight biz.

Ahem, Don King in control of both McCall and Duran then for perspective.

I don't think what Leonard did was cowardly. SR believed that the fight was till on, and Roberto was trying to set up a trap. SR said that Jersey Joe Walcott walked used to walk away like he was quitting, only to try to set up his counter attack.

[Ambling Alp II]

Duran was still celebrating his first victory over Leonard, when SR smartly suggested an almost immediate rematch.

Roberto had to take off a lot of weight very quickly. He felt weak from losing weight and over ate before the rematch and cramped up and quit when he realized he was too weak, too slow, and too tired to fight effectively.

McCall had to go cold turkey on crack. I think his crying was jonzing for his fix.

Those excuses make no sense. The rematch was 5 months after the first fight. Duran knew well in advance when the 2nd fight would be and had plenty of time to train. He could have fought later had he wanted to. According to his own trainer he had no excuse. He lost because Leonard was too good for him. He quit like a dog.

He knows what the deal with McCall was.

[Tony1244]

Duran was still celebrating his first victory over Leonard, when SR smartly suggested an almost immediate rematch.

Roberto had to take off a lot of weight very quickly. He felt weak from losing weight and over ate before the rematch and cramped up and quit when he realized he was too weak, too slow, and too tired to fight effectively.

McCall had to go cold turkey on crack. I think his crying was jonzing for his fix.

Those excuses make no sense. The rematch was 5 months after the first fight. Duran knew well in advance when the 2nd fight would be and had plenty of time to train. He could have fought later had he wanted to. According to his own trainer he had no excuse. He lost because Leonard was too good for him. He quit like a dog.

He knows what the deal with McCall was.

I'm not making excuses for Duran. He messed up. But that's still generally what happened. Like Ruiz, he just had a good time way too long.

On McCall, I think I know enough about drugs to know going cold turkey is a Mother F. Pot and alcohol are tough enough. I believe McCall said he was doing coke/crack. He was not physically or mentally prepared and freaked out in the ring.

Interestingly enough in both cases, they had normal but not great careers afterwards.

Good thread.

[Onetimeonly]

Ruiz? He's never trained. Ridiculous analogy.