Sonny Liston (1963) vs. current HWs ?

[ValMar]

Where would be his position right now ?

[Enlightened-One]

The 1963 version of Sonny Liston would definitely be competing as a cruiserweight if the same youthful iteration was around today.

He’s just too small.

[Loki]

Had a great jab and was mean as hell. But, at 6’1 - wouldn’t really be comparable to today’s giants.

I hate comparing eras - too many unknowns and a bit of a waste of time as nobody can really say how the fights would play out.

[Jaywheel]

6'1, but monkey arms and a killer jab. Fury is probably the only HW I'd have as a favorite against him today.

[Tony1244]

Who knows, but Sonny would have problems avoiding and taking Wilder's right hand. Fury would probably beat him also. After that, I'd favor Liston.

[gilgamesh]

I think he'd be a Top 5 today. Not sure he'd get by Tyson Fury, but he'd be even money with Wilder or AJ I think.

Bouts between him and the likes of Povetkin or Ortiz would be interesting to determine how he could hang with these guys.

[Enlightened-One]

The average Sonny Liston opponent up to and including 1963 would have been comfortably less than 200lbs.

Sonny Liston himself (at least the 1963 version) would have made today’s 200lbs cruiserweight limit with consummate ease.

The prime version of Sonny Liston was slightly shorter than Dereck Chisora, but almost 50lbs lighter, with neither man considered ripped.

Are we honestly claiming there’s no point in having a cruiserweight division and that size doesn’t matter?

Are we also claiming that boxing (as well as training, dietary and sports science) hasn’t progressed in the last 57 years?

[Jaywheel]

You mean like Andy Ruiz training and dietary progressed?

[Enlightened-One]

You mean like Andy Ruiz training and dietary progressed?

Prime Andy Ruiz Jr. beats 1963 Sonny Liston, because size matters.

[Jaywheel]

Liston is about an inch shorter with a far greater reach than Ruiz. But you already know that right?

[Enlightened-One]

Liston is about an inch shorter with a far greater reach than Ruiz. But you already know that right?

Yep, and size really matters. Most of Liston’s opponents were small cruiserweights. But you already know that right?

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Chris byrd did well for himself. He was way undersized. Different type of fighter but it proves size can be overcome

[Onetimeonly]

#1

[Onetimeonly]

You mean like Andy Ruiz training and dietary progressed?

Prime Andy Ruiz Jr. beats 1963 Sonny Liston, because size matters.

[ValMar]

Ali claimed that he faced three great fighters during his career - Liston, Fraizer and Foreman. For me, this is enough.
Liston has been considered as an extremely mean fighter (something like Tyson in his prime).

I think that Fury only would be able to defeat 1963 version Liston.

[ValMar]

Prime Andy Ruiz Jr. beats 1963 Sonny Liston, because size matters.

Andy Ruiz ?

[Onetimeonly]

Andy Ruiz ?

Ruiz is a bum, talk about a cruiserweight.

[ValMar]

Andy Ruiz ?

Ruiz is a bum, talk about a cruiserweight.

I can not imagine any fighter 100 kg/220 lbs (with the strength and the punching power as a basic weapon - Liston/Tyson type) to try to lose 10kg/22 lbs to compete at CW in order to get (if he is lucky) 1 million for the CW title, instead of 10-15 millions for HW title. I don't want to speak about pride and glory, this is a different topic.

And Andy Ruiz ?

[Tony1244]

You mean like Andy Ruiz training and dietary progressed?

Prime Andy Ruiz Jr. beats 1963 Sonny Liston, because size matters.

Size does matter. Morbid Obesity matters more.

Only way Liston would lose to Ruiz, if he burst out laughing and couldn't stop, which would be understandable.

[oogiebe]

Even money vs Fury. Beats everyone else.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Size matters but it isnt all that matters. Which is why chris byrd, holyfield, roy jones, and james toney have all had success at hw

[oogiebe]

Size matters but it isnt all that matters. Which is why chris byrd, holyfield, roy jones, and james toney have all had success at hw

Yeah, I'm tired of the size debate. You still have to know how to fight.

[Ambling Alp II]

Me too.
People routinely say one guy has a 50 pound weight "advantage" as if there is nothing to think about.

If you look at what happens in real life when a great fighter (anywhere near Liston's size) fights someone bigger, you see how silly the size "advantage" is.
There is a reason we don't see 270 quarterbacks. It's not ideal.
Boxing skills, power, seed, chin, smarts, heart, wins fights. The scale and the tape measure do not. It's been proven, over and over, and over.

If Liston was fighting now, he would be the dominant heavyweight.

[DrDuke]

#2. Fury is #1.

[gilgamesh]

You mean like Andy Ruiz training and dietary progressed?

Prime Andy Ruiz Jr. beats 1963 Sonny Liston, because size matters.

I figure he'd be outboxed, and outhustled by Liston.