Greb-Norfolk 1921

[goose 5]

I'm interested in the thoughts of any Greb experts regarding the August 30, 1921 coverage of this bout by Jim Jab of The Pittsburgh Press. Phrases like "sparring seance" to describe the bout and "mild Mannered" to describe Norfolk in the bout are at odds with other accounts of the match. Also, there were rumors before the fight that it would be a crooked bout and Jab, in his coverage, suggests that some in the crowd decried the bout that way.

[klompton]

To understand Jim Jab’s coverage of Greb in particular but most fights you first need to understand Jim Jab, AKA Arthur Cratty. Cratty first and foremost disliked Greb. He often issued minority reports on Grebs fights. The other five (or six depending on the year) Pittsburgh newspapers might have Greb winning a fight overwhelmingly and yet Jab would inexplicably arrive at the conclusion that it was a draw or a loss. He often wrote negative copy about Greb and was a conspiracy theorist in general. He was often trying to drum up controversy or trying to find fixed fights where there were none. What he was was an old curmudgeon who had cut his teeth in the Sullivan era. He didnt think any of the fighters of Grebs era compared to the fighters of Sullivans so he looked on them with disdain. When Damon Runyon came along and reinvented the way sportswriters operated Cratty spent the rest of his career trying to emulate him (poorly). As the years went on he fell out of favor and his columns began appearing less and less leaving him to focus on his main source of income: serving as a clap doctor to prostitutes in Pittsburgh's red light district. Cratty’s biases are why its important to look at all sources from Pittsburgh, not just his, to gain a complete picture of how whatever fight you are researching played out. Because often times he thought the fight was fixed, a fighter wasnt trying, or some other reason the fight wasnt legitimate while his contemporaries often give a much more fair and balanced picture of the events. It would be one thing if this happened just once or twice but you can regularly find Cratty trying to stir up trouble over years and multiple fights. He was basically practicing yellow journalism in my opinion and Ive read thousands of his articles and interviewed men who knew him. In regards to the Norfolk fight in particular any assertion that it wasnt on the level is comical in the extreme. It was a brutal fight. Greb was down and blinded in one eye for the rest of his career. Norfolk was being battered at the final bell and was so used up afterwards that he spent time in the hospital and had to cancel all of his scheduled bouts for the foreseeable future. Does that sound like two guys not trying?

[goose 5]

Thanks very much for the reply; your research/knowledge is terrific. Two more questions, if i may: did you access any of Greb's military records; and if so, according to them,how tall was Greb ?

[klompton]

Yes, I have Grebs navy records. Hes listed as 5’8”.

[goose 5]

Thanks, again. I thought he might have been shorter.

[revpickles]

Yes, I have Grebs navy records. Hes listed as 5’8”.

I would be very interested to see this, what ships did he serve on and where was he posted?

[Duran1970]

Was in the Navy reserves
Started out on the USS Recruit stationed in new York. then was at sea on the USS Sierra