Sonny Liston (1963) vs. current HWs ?

[gilgamesh]

No. Cruiserweight has already been increased from 190 to 200.

All Time great Heavyweight Champions weighed less than what the Cruiserweight division is now. Leave it alone.

I would for now.

I would forever. If a guy feels he can't compete, and he weighs 210, he needs to watch what he eats, and cut down to 200 even. Simple enough.

If he's 220, and he can't get it done, well...maybe this ain't for him, or maybe he needs to try MMA or something.

[Tony1244]

I would for now.

I would forever. If a guy feels he can't compete, and he weighs 210, he needs to watch what he eats, and cut down to 200 even. Simple enough.

If he's 220, and he can't get it done, well...maybe this ain't for him, or maybe he needs to try MMA or something.

I'd keep the CW limit @ 200 for at least another 10 years and look at it again in 2030.

If the 210-220s can't complete with the 250s, then consider increasing it, but I doubt that will be the case. Holyfield really beat Valuev and he was way way past his prime. Favoring Ruiz over Liston is beyond ridiculous and shows lack of knowledge.

[gilgamesh]

I would forever. If a guy feels he can't compete, and he weighs 210, he needs to watch what he eats, and cut down to 200 even. Simple enough.

If he's 220, and he can't get it done, well...maybe this ain't for him, or maybe he needs to try MMA or something.

I'd keep the CW limit @ 200 for at least another 10 years and look at it again in 2030.

If the 210-220s can't complete with the 250s, then consider increasing it, but I doubt that will be the case. Holyfield really beat Valuev and he was way way past his prime. Favoring Ruiz over Liston is beyond ridiculous and shows lack of knowledge.

Why does nobody have any respect for Tradition in the sport with the richest Tradition of all?

[Tony1244]

I'd keep the CW limit @ 200 for at least another 10 years and look at it again in 2030.

If the 210-220s can't complete with the 250s, then consider increasing it, but I doubt that will be the case. Holyfield really beat Valuev and he was way way past his prime. Favoring Ruiz over Liston is beyond ridiculous and shows lack of knowledge.

Why does nobody have any respect for Tradition in the sport with the richest Tradition of all?

I don't think you understood what I said. The HW division should be the top division. Whether the CW division is 190, 200, or even 2010 in 2040, it doesn't matter, the CW division already exists.

[gilgamesh]

Why does nobody have any respect for Tradition in the sport with the richest Tradition of all?

I don't think you understood what I said. The HW division should be the top division. Whether the CW division is 190, 200, or even 2010 in 2040, it doesn't matter, the CW division already exists.

I'd rather see the Cruiserweight division cease to exist than go higher than 200 pounds.

[JCS]

Was just thinking about moving a division up like Cruiserweight... and I've never heard the argument supporting it based on the fact that people keep getting fatter, at least in the USA.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr122-508.pdf

Adult males, 20-39 weighed on avg, 84.3kg in 1999-2000 and 89.7kg in 2015-2016

That's a gain of nearly 12 pounds in 16 years.

[margaret thatcher]

Was just thinking about moving a division up like Cruiserweight... and I've never heard the argument supporting it based on the fact that people keep getting fatter, at least in the USA.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr122-508.pdf

Adult males, 20-39 weighed on avg, 84.3kg in 1999-2000 and 89.7kg in 2015-2016

That's a gain of nearly 12 pounds in 16 years.

Put down the burgers my American bruhs

Hell, actually, they are delicious, just live for the moment

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Wtf is this kg nonsense? My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and thats the way i like it

[lazboy]

Harry Greb would fck Liston up.

[ValMar]

I would for now.

I would forever. If a guy feels he can't compete, and he weighs 210, he needs to watch what he eats, and cut down to 200 even. Simple enough.

If he's 220, and he can't get it done, well...maybe this ain't for him, or maybe he needs to try MMA or something.

Yes !

[Ambling Alp II]

How many really good big men have there've been so far? The 2 Klit brothers, LL, and Fury. Am I missing anyone?

Jury's still out on how good AJ may ultimately prove to be.

Wilder I figure has hit his ceiling though he may still have a few significant wins in him.

Over the long history of boxing, there have been other really big heavyweights. None great except for Bowe for a short time and Lewis. Some were good, some terrible, most in between.
Wilder is a prime example of how silly this has got. The guy was winning fight after fight where he was outweighed. What a coincidence, the only stain on Fury's record is against a guy who weighed 212.

And Liston is too "small". He weighed 215 in 1963.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya Wilder's a little guy, 6'7 and averaging like a ripped 225 and still ripped in the 230s. Not quite 5'7 and around the 160s and 170s on fight day like so many of previous atgs most notable opponents, but almost.

Besides, all this focus on size and that that's all people look at etc, but pretty much everyone acknowledges it's just 1 factor so no need to be in love with this idea we're all saying size is all that matters. Don't think people are saying Nik Valuev is like the goat or anything. But it's not something to be ignored.

Waah, people don't all have Sonny at #1 !! waah people are so stupid waah

[Tony1244]

Carnera is too big for Baer and Louis. Willard is too big for Dempsey. Andy Ruiz is too big for Ali.

[margaret thatcher]

Nah, Willard was too big and strong for Johnson, but not Dempsey

[Ambling Alp II]

Editor's note: marge has no concept of a fighter's prime.

[margaret thatcher]

Just facts bruh, big Jess proved too big and strong, I'm sure most middleweights would find his strength far too much too

[Ambling Alp II]

Johnson was too old. That is why he lost.

[margaret thatcher]

Jess was too big, too strong. My boi Jess wasn't some 160ish pounder, he was had that country boi size and strength and it overwhelmed JJ

[ValMar]

This is off topic, but I think that every (normal) boxing fan should know the basic factors for the succes in boxing, especially for the HWs :

-skillset
-strength
-punching power
-stamina
-chin
-size (weight/height/reach)
-heart
-team (trainers/managers, etc.)

So, size is an important factor, but not the only one.

[margaret thatcher]

That's obvious, don't know why you guys pay such disproportionate attention to the very very few people who think size is everything. It's stupid to take an extreme opinion and then act like everyone is saying it

[margaret thatcher]

It matters for sure, it's just not everything

Funny enough former HW champs used to weigh in the 160s

[Tony1244]

Carnera is too big for Baer and Louis. Willard is too big for Dempsey. Andy Ruiz is too big for Ali.

Yeah except carnera and Willard were awful. Ruiz can actually fight plus that fat bastard would weight 220-225 max if he was in shape

That's what I was saying about him. He should be at about 220. Some posters here don't understand the difference between fat and big.

[margaret thatcher]

Carnera is too big for Baer and Louis. Willard is too big for Dempsey. Andy Ruiz is too big for Ali.

Yeah except carnera and Willard were awful. Ruiz can actually fight plus that fat bastard would weight 220-225 max if he was in shape

I dunno man, Alp doesn't think those guys are any worse than the Klits , do you agree

[ValMar]

I would like to see the list (with more than ten names) of really big HW champions since 1970.

[oogiebe]

I would like to see the list (with more than ten names) of really big HW champions since 1970.

What's your criteria?