Is Muhammad Ali in Everybody's 'Top 10'

[gilgamesh]

Middleweights were good enough for other hw greats

Beating a great fighter. Even with a size advantage or whatever. It always gives you at least a bit of a boost. Sometimes wins like that get more recognition years later when people just see the name on the record without being aware of the surrounding circumstances.

[Tony1244]

Middleweights were good enough for other hw greats

Supermiddleweight Bob Fitzsimmons was Super.

[oogiebe]

Middleweights were good enough for other hw greats

One of these nights, the ghost of JJ is gonna come to see you!! LMFAO!

[Onetimeonly]

Middleweights were good enough for other hw greats

Beating a great fighter. Even with a size advantage or whatever. It always gives you at least a bit of a boost. Sometimes wins like that get more recognition years later when people just see the name on the record without being aware of the surrounding circumstances.

Except for Floyd/Marquez.

[gilgamesh]

Beating a great fighter. Even with a size advantage or whatever. It always gives you at least a bit of a boost. Sometimes wins like that get more recognition years later when people just see the name on the record without being aware of the surrounding circumstances.

Except for Floyd/Marquez.

I still give Floyd credit for that win. Nobody else ever blanked Marquez like that.

[Ambling Alp II]

His biggest win.

[Tevfik1907]

Even Floyd puts Ali in his top 5 P4P list.



And Floyd lowballs Ali as much as he can. And Ali is the only heavyweight in his top 5 p4p list.

[Jacopodb]

Hardly top-5 for me, from the footage I've watched, since I don't know much about history, biographies and and fights.

I don't like Ali's fashion of bouncing his head back exposing himself to hooks, and I don't like showboaters as well.

Maybe top-10, but is he really worthy of staying over the awesome natural skills of Duran, the ring generalship of Benny Leonard, the amazing wok ethics of Mayweather Jr. and Marciano, the perfection of Jack Johnson, or we're a little blinded by Ali's great philantropic skills, sympathy, diplomacy etc., and forgot real boxing?

[Ambling Alp II]

Ali had all of that.

[oogiebe]

Ali had all of that.

Truly. To deny Ali is silly.

[banjo]

Top heavy, definitely somewhere in top 10 p4p.

[Jacopodb]

Ok. In fact I wouldn't know who to put around the end of my humble list (1 Mayweather, 2 Robinson, 3 Armstrong, 4 Pep, 5 Louis, 6 Duran, 7 Benny Leonard, 8 Marciano, 9 Ali, 10 Jack Johnson)

[Ambling Alp II]

Keep Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, and Louis.

Langford, Greb, Ray Leonard, and Ezzard Charles are rock solid Top 10. They have to be in there.

To make room, take out Mayweather, Marciano, and Johnson for sure.

Out of Pep, Benny Leonard and Duran, only two can stay.

[elmersalsa]

Keep Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, and Louis.

Langford, Greb, Ray Leonard, and Ezzard Charles are rock solid Top 10. They have to be in there.

To make room, take out Mayweather, Marciano, and Johnson for sure.

Out of Pep, Benny Leonard and Duran, only two can stay.

Sugar Ray Leonard is not top 10. Maybe top 20. Stop it!

[Onetimeonly]

Ok. In fact I wouldn't know who to put around the end of my humble list (1 Mayweather, 2 Robinson, 3 Armstrong, 4 Pep, 5 Louis, 6 Duran, 7 Benny Leonard, 8 Marciano, 9 Ali, 10 Jack Johnson)

Pep, Marciano & Johnson aren't top 10. Johnson and rocky are highly questionable top 50.

[Ambling Alp II]

Keep Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, and Louis.

Langford, Greb, Ray Leonard, and Ezzard Charles are rock solid Top 10. They have to be in there.

To make room, take out Mayweather, Marciano, and Johnson for sure.

Out of Pep, Benny Leonard and Duran, only two can stay.

Sugar Ray Leonard is not top 10. Maybe top 20. Stop it!

Guess he should have fought and beaten 30 stiffs from Panama that nobody ever heard of. That is what is missing on Leonard's career. How damning.

[elmersalsa]

Sugar Ray Leonard is not top 10. Maybe top 20. Stop it!

Guess he should have fought and beaten 30 stiffs from Panama that nobody ever heard of. That is what is missing on Leonard's career. How damning.

I guess he should have had more longevity?
I guess he should have fought more often?
I guess he should have given quick rematches?
Maybe he should have called it quits in 1982 and never come back? Because after 1982, his career was a TOTAL JOKE.

[Ambling Alp II]

He should have had more longevity? Well he had a lot more huge wins than some quitters I know.
Sure he could have fought more often. If Leonard would 30 more automatic wins over stiffs nobody ever hear of, proved anything?
Quick rematches? Well if the guys he beat at welter would not have left the division they would have got quick rematches.

After 1982 his career was a joke? Well he did come back even though he had nothing to prove. Beat Marvin somebody or another. Had a draw with Thomas something or another. But yeah, it's not like he beat some stiffs from Panama that nobody ever heard of. Guess that is what the great ones do.

[oogiebe]

He should have had more longevity? Well he had a lot more huge wins than some quitters I know.
Sure he could have fought more often. If Leonard would 30 more automatic wins over stiffs nobody ever hear of, proved anything?
Quick rematches? Well if the guys he beat at welter would not have left the division they would have got quick rematches.

After 1982 his career was a joke? Well he did come back even though he had nothing to prove. Beat Marvin somebody or another. Had a draw with Thomas something or another. But yeah, it's not like he beat some stiffs from Panama that nobody ever heard of. Guess that is what the great ones do.

Never hid my dislike of SRL, but geez...Elmer is off the rails. He was one of the best fighters I've ever seen with a solid resume of HOF'ers and Champs and former champs. I hate him.

[Ambling Alp II]

elmer off the rails? Never!!

Never understood why people hate Leonard. But at least you admit. elmer pretends that he likes him because he hopes people will think he is being objective when he rips him.

[elmersalsa]

To say that the great Sugar Ray Leonard is a top 10 of all time pound per pound could be that you're EXTREMELY BIASED, don't know the history of great fighters or is NOT A JUST PERSON.

There are plenty of boxers that should be DESERVING top 10 pound per pound all time in my view ahead of Leonard.

Guys like the great Tony Canzoneri is one. He should be ahead of Leonard miles ahead.

Archie Moore is another deserving great that should be top 10 in many writer's books.

Willie Pep. How can a man that has won 230 fights should be beneath Leonard? He did not fight stiffs all his life. He beat greats like Sandy Saddler and Manuel Ortiz. Should Leonard be ahead of him because he beat 4 greats? I didn't see a bantamweight whupping him? But a lightweight beat Leonard.

Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson, Carlos Monzon, Bob Fitzsimmons, Floyd Mayweather, Jr, Joe Louis. They didn't beat 4 great ones. But, look at their resume. They were constantly fighting. They had more longevity than Leonard. They even beat more top contenders and champions than Leonard did. Some of them had more championship fights.

Did the great Sam Langford beat 4 great ones? Why he isn't lower than Leonard?
How about Muhammad Ali? How many of them he beat in his opponent's prime?

From 1977 to 1982, Sugar Ray was awesome. He only had 3 years of complete prime (1979-82). And he should be top 10? No way! His career after 1982 was a COMPLETE JOKE! You know what happened. Or do we have to revisit his career? Shall we?

[oogiebe]

To say that the great Sugar Ray Leonard is a top 10 of all time pound per pound could be that you're EXTREMELY BIASED, don't know the history of great fighters or is NOT A JUST PERSON.

There are plenty of boxers that should be DESERVING top 10 pound per pound all time in my view ahead of Leonard.

Guys like the great Tony Canzoneri is one. He should be ahead of Leonard miles ahead.

Archie Moore is another deserving great that should be top 10 in many writer's books.

Willie Pep. How can a man that has won 230 fights should be beneath Leonard? He did not fight stiffs all his life. He beat greats like Sandy Saddler and Manuel Ortiz. Should Leonard be ahead of him because he beat 4 greats? I didn't see a bantamweight whupping him? But a lightweight beat Leonard.

Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson, Carlos Monzon, Bob Fitzsimmons, Floyd Mayweather, Jr, Joe Louis. They didn't beat 4 great ones. But, look at their resume. They were constantly fighting. They had more longevity than Leonard. They even beat more top contenders and champions than Leonard did. Some of them had more championship fights.

Did the great Sam Langford beat 4 great ones? Why he isn't lower than Leonard?
How about Muhammad Ali? How many of them he beat in his opponent's prime?

From 1977 to 1982, Sugar Ray was awesome. He only had 3 years of complete prime (1979-82). And he should be top 10? No way! His career after 1982 was a COMPLETE JOKE! You know what happened. Or do we have to revisit his career? Shall we?

Who said SRL is top 10 P4P of all time?

[elmersalsa]

He should have had more longevity? Well he had a lot more huge wins than some quitters I know.
Sure he could have fought more often. If Leonard would 30 more automatic wins over stiffs nobody ever hear of, proved anything?
Quick rematches? Well if the guys he beat at welter would not have left the division they would have got quick rematches.

After 1982 his career was a joke? Well he did come back even though he had nothing to prove. Beat Marvin somebody or another. Had a draw with Thomas something or another. But yeah, it's not like he beat some stiffs from Panama that nobody ever heard of. Guess that is what the great ones do.

He didn't give Benitez a rematch.
He didn't give Hearns a rematch until 8 years later.
He didn't give Duran a rematch. Duran gave it to him.

His career was A FARCE after 1982. The ONLY GOOD thing he did after 1982 was to beat a FADING MARVELOUS when the fight was supposed to be, guess what year? 1982.

And he supposed to be top 10? Gimme a break!

[elmersalsa]

To say that the great Sugar Ray Leonard is a top 10 of all time pound per pound could be that you're EXTREMELY BIASED, don't know the history of great fighters or is NOT A JUST PERSON.

There are plenty of boxers that should be DESERVING top 10 pound per pound all time in my view ahead of Leonard.

Guys like the great Tony Canzoneri is one. He should be ahead of Leonard miles ahead.

Archie Moore is another deserving great that should be top 10 in many writer's books.

Willie Pep. How can a man that has won 230 fights should be beneath Leonard? He did not fight stiffs all his life. He beat greats like Sandy Saddler and Manuel Ortiz. Should Leonard be ahead of him because he beat 4 greats? I didn't see a bantamweight whupping him? But a lightweight beat Leonard.

Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson, Carlos Monzon, Bob Fitzsimmons, Floyd Mayweather, Jr, Joe Louis. They didn't beat 4 great ones. But, look at their resume. They were constantly fighting. They had more longevity than Leonard. They even beat more top contenders and champions than Leonard did. Some of them had more championship fights.

Did the great Sam Langford beat 4 great ones? Why he isn't lower than Leonard?
How about Muhammad Ali? How many of them he beat in his opponent's prime?

From 1977 to 1982, Sugar Ray was awesome. He only had 3 years of complete prime (1979-82). And he should be top 10? No way! His career after 1982 was a COMPLETE JOKE! You know what happened. Or do we have to revisit his career? Shall we?

Who said SRL is top 10 P4P of all time?

Ambling Alp. Really? Should he be? Can we do a thread about him if he should be top ten all time when there were more deserving fighters?

[Ambling Alp II]

Name me 10 guys who had wins over four different guys that were better than Wilfred Benitez?