Is Muhammad Ali in Everybody's 'Top 10'

[oogiebe]

But nobody else ever managed 26 title defenses did they?

Quality means a lot more to me. You know that Thai dude at 53-0 or whatever..

Stop it. Tally up all Louis' accomplishments and stop cherry picking points. Sheesh! I'm triggered.

[margaret thatcher]

I have, and I know who he fought. When you're talking about deciding the absolute highest tier of p4p atgs of course it's gonna get into fine details and picking, should be obvious

[oogiebe]

I have, and I know who he fought. When you're talking about deciding the absolute highest tier of p4p atgs of course it's gonna get into fine details and picking, should be obvious

What's obvious is that it's mostly subjective.

[margaret thatcher]

Of course

[oogiebe]

But nobody else ever managed 26 title defenses did they?

Quality means a lot more to me. You know that Thai dude at 53-0 or whatever..

Comparing Louis to "Mooney" is just silly. Show us your list.

[oogiebe]

I think once you get into the top 50, it's all subjective. So many all time greats. I could change mine next week. Depends on who I've been watching or reading about or whatever.

[gilgamesh]

But nobody else ever managed 26 title defenses did they?

Quality means a lot more to me. You know that Thai dude at 53-0 or whatever..

Like I said aside from the 26 title defenses he beat 3 former Champions who were the biggest names possible basically to beat at that time.

He had beaten numerous contenders to get a title shot in the first place as a Black Man would've had to in 1937 to get a title shot.

After retiring as Champion in 1949 he came back to challenge for the title in 1950 losing to Ezzard Charles, and then proceeded to go on an 8 bout winning streak before losing to Future Champion Rocky Marciano.

His 8 bout winning streak included a win over solid contender, and Hall of Famer Jimmy Bivins.

All told he beat 8 Hall of Famers I believe. Some of them twice. He faced 10, and was only ever beaten by Hall of Famers.

[margaret thatcher]

I wasn't comparing them directly, I was just citing Moony as an example of why quantity is a limited metric--a guy with great volume who obviously isn't in the discussion. That's hardly as if I'm saying he and Joe Louis are the same.

Wlad made like 20 defenses too, is he like the 2 atg hw?


Just quickly I'd agree with Gil havign all those guys above Joe, and then I'd add others too. Floyd I think rates higher for example. To me Louis would be no higher than Haggler too etc

[margaret thatcher]

Quality means a lot more to me. You know that Thai dude at 53-0 or whatever..

Like I said aside from the 26 title defenses he beat 3 former Champions who were the biggest names possible basically to beat at that time.

He had beaten numerous contenders to get a title shot in the first place as a Black Man would've had to in 1937 to get a title shot.

After retiring as Champion in 1949 he came back to challenge for the title in 1950 losing to Ezzard Charles, and then proceeded to go on an 8 bout winning streak before losing to Future Champion Rocky Marciano.

His 8 bout winning streak included a win over solid contender, and Hall of Famer Jimmy Bivins.

All told he beat 8 Hall of Famers I believe. Some of them twice. He faced 10, and was only ever beaten by Hall of Famers.

Lol, you were listing names like Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer, and LHW Billy Conn in his notable win stats. Now you're mentioning little Jimmy Bivins. Fine by most standards, but this type of stuff is nothing for a guy supposedly top 3-10 p4p atg.

When you mention actual names, and consider the weights, it's really not super convincing for top 3-10 atg p4p

[gilgamesh]

I wasn't comparing them directly, I was just citing Moony as an example of why quantity is a limited metric--a guy with great volume who obviously isn't in the discussion. That's hardly as if I'm saying he and Joe Louis are the same.

Wlad made like 20 defenses too, is he like the 2 atg hw?


Just quickly I'd agree with Gil havign all those guys above Joe, and then I'd add others too. Floyd I think rates higher for example. To me Louis would be no higher than Haggler too etc

Wlad had the 3rd longest reign in Heavyweight Championship history. You could make a case for him being all time Top 10, though for me he'd be Top 15.

At Heavyweight of course I mean, not Pound for Pound.

[oogiebe]

I wasn't comparing them directly, I was just citing Moony as an example of why quantity is a limited metric--a guy with great volume who obviously isn't in the discussion. That's hardly as if I'm saying he and Joe Louis are the same.

Wlad made like 20 defenses too, is he like the 2 atg hw?


Just quickly I'd agree with Gil havign all those guys above Joe, and then I'd add others too. Floyd I think rates higher for example. To me Louis would be no higher than Haggler too etc

Quantity to many is one box to check. One of many. Where's your list?

[oogiebe]

I wasn't comparing them directly, I was just citing Moony as an example of why quantity is a limited metric--a guy with great volume who obviously isn't in the discussion. That's hardly as if I'm saying he and Joe Louis are the same.

Wlad made like 20 defenses too, is he like the 2 atg hw?


Just quickly I'd agree with Gil havign all those guys above Joe, and then I'd add others too. Floyd I think rates higher for example. To me Louis would be no higher than Haggler too etc

Wlad had the 3rd longest reign in Heavyweight Championship history. You could make a case for him being all time Top 10, though for me he'd be Top 15.

At Heavyweight of course I mean, not Pound for Pound.

Agreed. Wlad doesn't "check enough boxes" to be a P4P all time great in the context we're discussing.

[gilgamesh]

Like I said aside from the 26 title defenses he beat 3 former Champions who were the biggest names possible basically to beat at that time.

He had beaten numerous contenders to get a title shot in the first place as a Black Man would've had to in 1937 to get a title shot.

After retiring as Champion in 1949 he came back to challenge for the title in 1950 losing to Ezzard Charles, and then proceeded to go on an 8 bout winning streak before losing to Future Champion Rocky Marciano.

His 8 bout winning streak included a win over solid contender, and Hall of Famer Jimmy Bivins.

All told he beat 8 Hall of Famers I believe. Some of them twice. He faced 10, and was only ever beaten by Hall of Famers.

Lol, you were listing names like Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer, and LHW Billy Conn in his notable win stats. Now you're mentioning little Jimmy Bivins. Fine by most standards, but this type of stuff is nothing for a guy supposedly top 3-10 p4p atg.

When you mention actual names, and consider the weights, it's really not super convincing for top 3-10 atg p4p

Carnera is not even one of the Hall of Famers. Just a Former World Champion he beat.

His resume is nothing to scoff at.

Obviously there are many fighters with great achievements, but Joe's reign and standing can't be denied.

Tell me who all you'd rank ahead of him, and tell me why you think they deserve such status.

[oogiebe]

Lol, you were listing names like Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer, and LHW Billy Conn in his notable win stats. Now you're mentioning little Jimmy Bivins. Fine by most standards, but this type of stuff is nothing for a guy supposedly top 3-10 p4p atg.

When you mention actual names, and consider the weights, it's really not super convincing for top 3-10 atg p4p

Carnera is not even one of the Hall of Famers. Just a Former World Champion he beat.

His resume is nothing to scoff at.

Obviously there are many fighters with great achievements, but Joe's reign and standing can't be denied.

Tell me who all you'd rank ahead of him, and tell me why you think they deserve such status.

Sorry Gil. Mags is the questioner in this forum.

[margaret thatcher]

Lol I'm not scoffing at his resume at all, obviously it's very good, but don't see how it's up there to get him these spots as high as #3

Seriously bruh just write all those names out instead of talking numbers, go for the actual substanse, it's not that great for p4p atg top 10

[margaret thatcher]

Carnera is not even one of the Hall of Famers. Just a Former World Champion he beat.

His resume is nothing to scoff at.

Obviously there are many fighters with great achievements, but Joe's reign and standing can't be denied.

Tell me who all you'd rank ahead of him, and tell me why you think they deserve such status.

Sorry Gil. Mags is the questioner in this forum.

You are weird about the question stuff, it's a boxing forum ffs

[margaret thatcher]

Why, for example, should Floyd be below Louis.

[oogiebe]

Post your f'n list already. You sit back and critique everyone else with your nervous little laughs ( /LOL). Give it up Jam. Put your list out there.

[margaret thatcher]

Lol read again

[margaret thatcher]

Heck, not just Floyd, you could put Manny higher too

[oogiebe]

Still no list by mags. LMFAO! Figures.

[margaret thatcher]

I already refered to more than 10 guys I'd rate higher, pay closer attention

[margaret thatcher]

Floyd > Joe easy

[oogiebe]

I already refered to more than 10 guys I'd rate higher, pay closer attention

LOL!!! Not that you twit! Top 10 P4P list. 1 through 10.

[margaret thatcher]

Hmm, not sure at the moment on the exact order in which I'd have those 10 fighters who rank above Louis, need to confirm a couple of placing. They all rate above Joe though