Today VS Yesteryear: Has HW Punching Power Increased?

[Jaywheel]

Yeah surely Liston could never replicate what an overweight semi-retired golfer did to Wlad.

[oogiebe]

Yeah surely Liston could never replicate what an overweight semi-retired golfer did to Wlad.

LMFAO!
I agree we've had enough of this.

[Duran1970]

Not this crap again...
So a 205lb Ernie Shavers would not have the power to stop these boys today?
Rocky Marciano hit hard enough to put anyone to sleep no matter the size..a chin is a chin no matter the weight

If what I’ve written really is "crap", pick one of the paragraphs and critique it. Explain the reason why you disagree?

I’ll tell you what, I'll even help you... let’s discuss what I wrote about Rocky Marciano, shall we? And then we'll move onto the other fighters I mentioned...

For instance: Many believed that Rocky Marciano possessed “freakish” punching power, which he may have done during his own era, but he was only the same size as a modern-day light heavyweight. He was almost 100lbs lighter and a foot shorter than Tyson Fury.

So it wouldn’t make any sense for anyone to compare Marciano’s punching power to a modern-day heavyweight, because he often entered the ring lighter than the likes of Isaac Chilemba, Eleider Alvarez, Sergey Kovalev, Tony Bellew, Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson etc. did when they all competed at light heavyweight.

Well for starters, cruiserweight Steve Cunningham put fury on his ass and I believe Marciano would've kept him there cuz anyone with vision would agree Rocky hits much harder than Cunningham..that's just one example..
Next.

If you honestly believe that a left hook from 200 lb Frazier, a right hand from Marciano that crumpled Walcott, a bomb from Shavers, a hook from Tyson, would have no effect on these chinny behemoths today only because it wasn't against a 6'9 270 lb opponent is unsound judgement in my opinion..
This has been done to death.
Peace.

[Ambling Alp II]

Amen.
Obviously there are big punchers and light punchers and everything in between in every era.

There are many factors in power. Strength is one of them. However so is speed. so is technique. And some guys for whatever reason have more power than you would think. And there are guys who you would think would punch hard who didn't.

[margaret thatcher]

Amen.
Obviously there are big punchers and light punchers and everything in between in every era.

There are many factors in power. Strength is one of them. However so is speed. so is technique. And some guys for whatever reason have more power than you would think. And there are guys who you would think would punch hard who didn't.

Whattya say Alpy, is a classic 6 foot 1, 190 body like Dempsey or Johnson a better size than these 6'6 240 pounds lumps today

[gilgamesh]

Amen.
Obviously there are big punchers and light punchers and everything in between in every era.

There are many factors in power. Strength is one of them. However so is speed. so is technique. And some guys for whatever reason have more power than you would think. And there are guys who you would think would punch hard who didn't.

Whattya say Alpy, is a classic 6 foot 1, 190 body like Dempsey or Johnson a better size than these 6'6 240 pounds lumps today

There isn't exactly an ideal size for a Heavyweight. The 6'1, 190 pound guys often had better definitely skill sets.

In the modern era being about 220 pounds would probably give you the best of both worlds in terms of being physically strong enough to hold your own with the bigger guys while still being athletically built enough to have better stamina and speed, and all that.

Though I don't think a well put together 210 pounder is necessarily at a major disadvantage either.

The height differentials probably plays a part more than the weight differentials do.

[Ambling Alp II]

It is a bit small for a heavyweight. Most guys that size would not be able to beat very good heavyweight that weighed an ideal weight.

However there are rare exceptions. One can only wonder what Dempsey would have done against a guy who weighs 240 or so. Is there any way to look up what happened in real life when Dempsey fought a guy around that weight?
If so, it might tell us something.

[Yuzo]

The height differentials probably plays a part more than the weight differentials do.

that is true. big men have to punch down and when you punch down you can be hit by punches coming over the top of your arm.

[margaret thatcher]

Another reason why the HW ideal is the Dempsey or Johnson 6'1 190 body...well, okay, if dudes love size and think that's too small, how about 6'1.5 197

At least not 5'7 165 or 5'6 155 lol

[margaret thatcher]

The height differentials probably plays a part more than the weight differentials do.

that is true. big men have to punch down and when you punch down you can be hit by punches coming over the top of your arm.

Wasn't that the 7'0 dude

He sure was no Wilt

[Ghost Town Ghost]

Years ago I believe I heard some respected people in boxing say they felt LH were more dangerous than Heavies, that they were able to hurt you almost equally but were usually faster. Anyone remember this? It may have been someone like a Futch or a Dundee, maybe?

[Onetimeonly]

Laughable to suggest modern training methods are better.

Laughable to suggest that they are not.

They clearly aren't.

[oogiebe]

Years ago I believe I heard some respected people in boxing say they felt LH were more dangerous than Heavies, that they were able to hurt you almost equally but were usually faster. Anyone remember this? It may have been someone like a Futch or a Dundee, maybe?

Sounds like something Gil Clancy would say.

[Ghost Town Ghost]

Ty oogie. I recall hearing it also from a popular older fighter that I can't remember.

As a quick aside, I met Emile Griffith at a fund raiser some years ago ago (he bummed a couple smokes off me and we hung out and chatted, and me being a ball-breaker, asked to make sure he wasn't in training before I gave him one ) Emile was a super friendly guy and chatted quite a bit about Gil Clancy, said how much he loved him and still kept in touch. I always enjoyed Clancy as a commentator.

[oogiebe]

Ty oogie. I recall hearing it also from a popular older fighter that I can't remember.

As a quick aside, I met Emile Griffith at a fund raiser some years ago ago (he bummed a couple smokes off me and we hung out and chatted, and me being a ball-breaker, asked to make sure he wasn't in training before I gave him one ) Emile was a super friendly guy and chatted quite a bit about Gil Clancy, said how much he loved him and still kept in touch. I always enjoyed Clancy as a commentator.

Clancy was an everyday dude.

[gilgamesh]

Laughable to suggest modern training methods are better.

Laughable to suggest that they are not.

Athletic conditioning may have improved

Study, and learning of the craft seems to have dropped. That's why a few guys are lauded when they come along who possess the ability to use the "old school tricks", because there's not that many of 'em anymore.

It's the guy that really take the time to study their craft.

[Yuzo]

Wasn't that the 7'0 dude

He sure was no Wilt

thats mike white.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Whattya say Alpy, is a classic 6 foot 1, 190 body like Dempsey or Johnson a better size than these 6'6 240 pounds lumps today

There isn't exactly an ideal size for a Heavyweight. The 6'1, 190 pound guys often had better definitely skill sets.

In the modern era being about 220 pounds would probably give you the best of both worlds in terms of being physically strong enough to hold your own with the bigger guys while still being athletically built enough to have better stamina and speed, and all that.

Though I don't think a well put together 210 pounder is necessarily at a major disadvantage either.

The height differentials probably plays a part more than the weight differentials do.

Lewis at his peak, around 235 had the perfect physique, tall, rangy, long reach, fluid and mobile.

A shorter fighter around 6 foot to 6 2 needs to have pretty devastating punch power and speed to really be able to compete as well as a good chin and/or defence.

[Onetimeonly]

Laughable to suggest that they are not.

Athletic conditioning may have improved

Study, and learning of the craft seems to have dropped. That's why a few guys are lauded when they come along who possess the ability to use the "old school tricks", because there's not that many of 'em anymore.

It's the guy that really take the time to study their craft.

How is athletic conditioning better when heavyweights like bowe and evander fought at a faster pace than bantamweights today? Not even getting into 15 RDS.

[Jaywheel]

The punch output of 99% of HW today is terrible. Old Fat George threw 450 punches against Holyfield while prime Joshua threw 375 in the rematch against Ruiz FFS.

[Ghost Town Ghost]

So it wouldn’t make any sense for anyone to compare Marciano’s punching power to a modern-day heavyweight, because he often entered the ring lighter than the likes of Isaac Chilemba, Eleider Alvarez, Sergey Kovalev, Tony Bellew, Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson etc. did when they all competed at light heavyweight.

Numbers/weight/stats are alright to discuss, but ultimately boring to me. The conversation just sputters out after those things are stated, whereas imagining fights across eras can lead to more interesting chats.

I know you said you don't like to compare, but entertain me for a moment if you will: who would you guess hit harder, Fury or Foreman?

[margaret thatcher]

The punch output of 99% of HW today is terrible. Old Fat George threw 450 punches against Holyfield while prime Joshua threw 375 in the rematch against Ruiz FFS.

Arreola threw 1125 and Konacki 1047 vs each other, maybe the fat is the key

[brilo33]

I always enjoy the fantasy matchups, and have been reading debates here about modern heavies being too big and strong for the older greats like Frazier, Marciano, etc.

Is it just me, or do these pro-gargantuan types tend to leave punching power out of the equation too often? I've heard the phrase "too big and strong" repeated over and over like a mantra, but not "they hit too hard".

Is Wilder's right hand harder than Marciano's? They look equally as hard to me. If anyone reading this is convinced he does, then pick any right hand of his on film and compare it to the first Walcott KO and show me what I'm missing.

I do believe Wilder probably has more one punch power than Marciano, but that's because his power is basically literally all he has. It's the one and only thing that's gotten him where he's gotten.

Marciano had other good qualities, and yes a thudding right hand to go along with it didn't hurt.

I don't think Tyson Fury punches any harder than Marciano, and he's nearly 80 pounds bigger.

To me the noticeable thing with the bigger guys as opposed to the Ali's and the Joe Louis' of the world, is a lack of technique, and combination punching. Seems like there's a lot more one shot at a time, and leaning on guys with your size, and just a different approach to the game from these bigger guys.

The smaller guys at Heavyweight, and the old timers (at least the best of 'em) often had much more polished technique and often better technique will produce better power.

So basically I think Wilder probably punches harder than Marciano, but that alone don't make him a better fighter. There's lots to study and take in from the legends of the past.

imagine fury throwing shots like rocky mac, he would take heads of. i think fury can bang harder than aj, fury is a deffenisve fighter his chin dont go over his knee when he throws, but look when he went on the attack he batterd wilder

[gilgamesh]

He did. Still wasn't a case of big punching power though exactly. Just a systematic beatdown over the course of several rounds.

[Heretic]

The punch output of 99% of HW today is terrible. Old Fat George threw 450 punches against Holyfield while prime Joshua threw 375 in the rematch against Ruiz FFS.

Arreola threw 1125 and Konacki 1047 vs each other, maybe the fat is the key

Well they both are arm punchers.