Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 10:19
It's clear you guys aren't really interested in facts, stats, evidence or anything that doesn't adhere to your preferred perception of reality.
It's clear we aren't interested in you. Beyond entertainment.
I'm not interested and not entertained.
Was Foreman better @ 260 than 217? No.
Was Holmes better @ 230 than 211? No.
Was Ali better @ 230 than 210? No.
Would Cleveland Williams have been better at a fat 245 than 215? No.
Would Cleveland Williams have been better at a fat 245 than 215? No.
Just saying, that George was better at 260 but not because of the weight.
He was more patient and I used to agree with what you said but I think it was wishful thinking because we were all blown away by GF's amazing comeback.
But....no I do not think the Foreman of the 1990s could beat the Foreman from 1973.
People are fatter now and nutritionalists have said that food has changed. The way wheat is made is different. The Liston's and Clays would all be 20 pounds heavier. And that's not effective weight.
You think the George that Evander widely beat was the best George? Inspirational comeback and all but don't agree he was better then. Even in his famous Moorer win he was getting totally clowned for pretty much all of it.
"Goofs" "No respect for the sport" "Go to hell". Sounds like someone needs to go to his local gym to prove his greatness in the ring.
Trying to start a flame war or something?
You certainly are escalating any arguement here telling people these things, making fun of them and calling them names from behind the heroic keyboard. Are threats the next step?
I don't threaten people online or challenge them to fights.
I do however mock them if I feel like their idea is incredibly stupid or as in this case a direct insult to the World's greatest sport.
I would be pretty much fighting mad if somebody ever formed a Super Heavyweight or Super Cruiserweight division. Problem is, there'd be nobody to fight.
Just a handful of people responsible for the sports ruin.
Cool. You are gonna call people names and tell them to go to hell so I will do the same you fool.
Did you know that there is a guy that pretty much nobody is interested in that goes by the name Jerwin Ancajas and that he is the IBF jr bantamweight champion. So here we have someone that nobody is interested in, in a division that nobody cares about and is therefor Ruining the sport that your little ass loves so much. Should Canelo send him a bill for lowering his purses? Do you want to send him some hatemail there bigguy?
P.s go to hell idiot.
Perhaps this mocking, name calling and telling people to go to hell isnt so helpful when it comes to having a conversation?
gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 13:19
Most combat sports don't even bother with 10 weight classes right?
In MMA as far as I know there is Heavyweight, Light Heavyweight, Middleweight, Welterweight, Lightweight, Featherweight, Bantamweight and Flyweight, mostly in Asia.
That's 8 weight classes.
If I'm not mistaken Kickboxing only has the same 8 weight classes
With Boxing weight classes I wouldn't mind keeping Strawweight and Cruiserweight for the particularly undersized guys or particularly big Light Heavyweights.
That being said, I think if somebody is 189 or 190 pounds, and WANTS to compete as a Heavyweight, they should be allowed to.
gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 13:19
Most combat sports don't even bother with 10 weight classes right?
In MMA as far as I know there is Heavyweight, Light Heavyweight, Middleweight, Welterweight, Lightweight, Featherweight, Bantamweight and Flyweight, mostly in Asia.
That's 8 weight classes.
If I'm not mistaken Kickboxing only has the same 8 weight classes
With Boxing weight classes I wouldn't mind keeping Strawweight and Cruiserweight for the particularly undersized guys or particularly big Light Heavyweights.
That being said, I think if somebody is 189 or 190 pounds, and WANTS to compete as a Heavyweight, they should be allowed to.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 14:22
You think the George that Evander widely beat was the best George? Inspirational comeback and all but don't agree he was better then. Even in his famous Moorer win he was getting totally clowned for pretty much all of it.
What do you mean? In the past you have ignored the stage of a fighter's career. The word prime was not in your vocabulary. Have you seen the light?
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 14:22
You think the George that Evander widely beat was the best George? Inspirational comeback and all but don't agree he was better then. Even in his famous Moorer win he was getting totally clowned for pretty much all of it.
George's power saved him vs Moorer. We never got to see a prime George. I think he would have blossomed age 30-35.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 14:22
You think the George that Evander widely beat was the best George? Inspirational comeback and all but don't agree he was better then. Even in his famous Moorer win he was getting totally clowned for pretty much all of it.
What do you mean? In the past you have ignored the stage of a fighter's career. The word prime was not in your vocabulary. Have you seen the light?
Oh I know about primes bruh, I just don't try to throw silly fanny excuses out there which aren't true
gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 13:43
Hell when Roy Jones won his WBA title from John Ruiz he entered the bout weighing 193.
The Cruiserweight division was moved up to 200 about 5 years or so after that.
So unless it ever changes back, Roy will be the last Heavyweight Titleholder under 200 pounds, but it's ironic that in the modern era where so many act as if the undersized guys just can't possibly compete anymore that Roy achieved it in the last 20 years while not even weighing the current Cruiserweight limit.
And first guy since Ruby Robert to get middle to heavyweight. Does guys don't come around often. Somebody will go from middle to heavyweight again... but not for a long time.
Tony1244 wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 15:33
You know we could end this whole debate if we could go back in time and put an extra 20 LBS of Blubber on Ali, Frazier, Liston, Tyson, Holyfield etc.
I don't see anyone bringing up jabs or reach, just weight.
All guys with a long reach automatically have a great jab. What else is there to talk about?
Tony1244 wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 15:33
You know we could end this whole debate if we could go back in time and put an extra 20 LBS of Blubber on Ali, Frazier, Liston, Tyson, Holyfield etc.
I don't see anyone bringing up jabs or reach, just weight.
All guys with a long reach automatically have a great jab. What else is there to talk about?
Even guys like AJ and Fury, who are by no means obese, have a much higher % of body fat than say Ali and Frazier in their 1971 "fight of the Century." I think they were 215 and 204 respectively, something like that. Add 10-20 lBS and they'd have the % of body fat that AJ and Fury have.
Oh I know about primes bruh, I just don't try to throw silly fanny excuses out there which aren't true
Like if a guy you don't like is in his late 30s, he is still in his prime. Got it.
It depends on each fighter, more likely in some cases you have someone who was reigning champ and used to beating tiny 160ish guys (5'7 165, now there's your hw ideal LOL) or teenagers and was simply overwhelmed when he tried hugging a biig full grown man too strong for him
The HW division has seen plenty of guys still getting good wins then too, I mean the guy we were talking about did it at 45. But now late 40s, theres another thing, not even the masterfully brilliant defensive moves of someone like Slick Clev Williams or the hugs of JJ could keep someone near their best at that age
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020, 17:13
All guys with a long reach automatically have a great jab. What else is there to talk about?
Even guys like AJ and Fury, who are by no means obese, have a much higher % of body fat than say Ali and Frazier in their 1971 "fight of the Century." I think they were 215 and 204 respectively, something like that. Add 10-20 lBS and they'd have the % of body fat that AJ and Fury have.
Maybe EO would respect them then.
Really? AJ looks to have a much higher fat percentage? If anyone looks soft out of the 3 it's not AJ.....
I don't threaten people online or challenge them to fights.
I do however mock them if I feel like their idea is incredibly stupid or as in this case a direct insult to the World's greatest sport.
I would be pretty much fighting mad if somebody ever formed a Super Heavyweight or Super Cruiserweight division. Problem is, there'd be nobody to fight.
Just a handful of people responsible for the sports ruin.
Cool. You are gonna call people names and tell them to go to hell so I will do the same you fool.
Did you know that there is a guy that pretty much nobody is interested in that goes by the name Jerwin Ancajas and that he is the IBF jr bantamweight champion. So here we have someone that nobody is interested in, in a division that nobody cares about and is therefor Ruining the sport that your little ass loves so much. Should Canelo send him a bill for lowering his purses? Do you want to send him some hatemail there bigguy?
P.s go to hell idiot.
Perhaps this mocking, name calling and telling people to go to hell isnt so helpful when it comes to having a conversation?
I know who Jerwin Ancajas is
I wasn't so much insulting any poster as I was insulting what I consider to be a god awful idea of adding weight classes to an already overloaded sport when it comes to weight classes, and with that being said it's a subject I feel passionate enough about that chances are I'd always wind up cussing out somebody that's advocating for more weight classes because it's a stupid idea, and one that harms the sport.
Yes, the fact of the matter is other than Boxing super nerds like us nobody gives a f*ck about or has ever heard of Ancajas. I doubt that would change if he were a Bantamweight instead of a Jr. Bantamweight honestly, but it'd be easier to recognize Champions if there wasn't 60+ of them.
