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[oogiebe]

Round 1: 10-6 Pac
Round 2: 10-9 Pac
Round 3: 10-9 Pac
Round 4: 10-9 JMM
Round 5: 10-9 JMM
Round 6: 10-9 JMM
Round 7: 10-9 Pac
Round 8: 10-10 JMM
Round 9: 10-9 JMM
Round 10: 10-9 Pac
Round 11: 10-9 JMM
Round 12: 10-9 Pac

114-111 Pac

Too bad Clements didn't know you could have a 10-6 round.

[margaret thatcher]

Dude in a fight at that level should really know that sh!t

[Seamus]

I actually once had an argument with a pro fight manager about the Paez v Grove fight and he told me "You can't score a round 10-6"

[oogiebe]

Dude in a fight at that level should really know that sh!t

You'd think. You'd also think that the commission would have done something about it. The judge that scored it for Marquez should have been drawn and quartered.

[oogiebe]

I actually once had an argument with a pro fight manager about the Paez v Grove fight and he told me "You can't score a round 10-6"

Ugh!

[Nile4000]

The Milton McCrory-Roger Stafford "title eliminator" matchup which determined the top dog for a shot at the belt that the Sugarman would eventually abort.

Round 1: 10-9 McCrory
Round 2: 10-9 McCrory
Round 3: 10-9 McCrory
Round 4: 10-9 McCrory
Round 5: 10-9 McCrory
Round 6: 10-9 McCrory
Round 7: 10-9 McCrory
Round 8: 10-9 McCrory
Round 9: 10-9 Stafford
Round 10: 10-9 McCrory

99-91 Milton McCrory. He used his jab, defense, and movement to keep Stafford in check. I only gave Roger the 9th because he was more active, and you could make a case for Milton pulling that round. Impressive performance by McCrory.

[scartissue]

Fighting Harada v Bernardo Caraballo

Really enjoyed this until the 14th and 15th rounds which became clinch-fests. But here we go, 5 point must system in effect.

Round 1: 5-4 Harada (scores a knockdown)
Round 2: 5-5 Even
Round 3: 5-4 Caraballo
Round 4: 5-4 Caraballo
Round 5: 5-4 Harada
Round 6: 5-5 Even
Round 7: 5-4 Harada
Round 8: 5-4 Caraballo
Round 9: 5-4 Caraballo
Round 10: 5-4 Harada
Round 11: 5-3 Harada (Caraballo loses a point for excessive holding)
Round 12: 5-4 Caraballo
Round 13: 5-4 Harada
Round 14: 5-4 Harada
Round 15: 5-4 Harada

Total: 70-66 Harada

Good tactical fight until the late rounds, which as I said became a bit of a clinchfest. The first round is the only one where I really have to explain. Harada scored a knockdown late in the round, which may have some scoring it as a 2 point round for Harada. However, I felt that was arguably the best round of Caraballo (even though he lost it) after having stunned Harada about three times during the round. I just could not give Harada a 2-pointer. I gave him the round, but just.

[scartissue]

Watched a true classic between Kid Gavilan and Gil Turner. Wow! These two really let it rip for the paying audience. Scored on a rounds basis.

Round 1: Turner
Round 2: Gavilan
Round 3: Turner
Round 4: Turner
Round 5: Gavilan
Round 6: Turner
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Turner
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Gavilan
Round 11: Gavilan stops Turner

Total (through 10 completed rounds): 5-3-2 Turner (actual scores were one score of 6-4 for Gavilan and two scores of 5-5 Even)

This was a terrific fight with several wild exchanges during the 5th and 6th especially. With both heads of processed hair flying and both throwing flashy bolos, these two went at it good. Gavilan suddenly found a home for his sharp left hook in the 10th round and it was like a light bulb went off. He realized he couldn't miss with it, never let up with it and rattled Gil in the 10th and finished him in the 11th. Incidentally, I read after viewing it that the ref cited Turner for a low blow in the 5th. They had an odd way of dealing with deductions back then. They would simply take the round away from the offender and give it to the recipient of the foul. In this case I had Gavilan winning the 5th, so nothing else is done because he won the round anyway. Strange looking at it without a point deduction from the total but that is how it was done back then

[scartissue]

Guty Espadas v Betulio Gonzalez

Round 1: 10-9 Espadas
Round 2: 10-9 Espadas
Round 3: 10-9 Espadas
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Espadas
Round 7: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 8: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 9: 10-9 Espadas
Round 10: 10-9 Espadas
Round 11: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 12: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 13: 10-10 Even
Round 14: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 15: 10-9 Espadas

Total: 145-143 Espadas (actual scores: 144-142 and 148-144 both for Gonzalez and a 146-146 card for a majority win for Gonzalez)

First of all, although an excellent fight, I wish the image was a bit sharper. High-def it's not. Still, I enjoyed the fight. What frustrated me - as a Betulio Gonzalez fan - is why Gonzalez fought Espadas' fight when he had reach and excellent boxing ability. To go inside with such a hard, short puncher was ridiculous. It made for a very good fight, but made his work so difficult. I had heard at the time the decision was controversial and now seeing it I can see why. Close fight.

[Ambling Alp II]

Watched a true classic between Kid Gavilan and Gil Turner. Wow! These two really let it rip for the paying audience. Scored on a rounds basis.

Round 1: Turner
Round 2: Gavilan
Round 3: Turner
Round 4: Turner
Round 5: Gavilan
Round 6: Turner
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Turner
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Gavilan
Round 11: Gavilan stops Turner

Total (through 10 completed rounds): 5-3-2 Turner (actual scores were one score of 6-4 for Gavilan and two scores of 5-5 Even)

This was a terrific fight with several wild exchanges during the 5th and 6th especially. With both heads of processed hair flying and both throwing flashy bolos, these two went at it good. Gavilan suddenly found a home for his sharp left hook in the 10th round and it was like a light bulb went off. He realized he couldn't miss with it, never let up with it and rattled Gil in the 10th and finished him in the 11th. Incidentally, I read after viewing it that the ref cited Turner for a low blow in the 5th. They had an odd way of dealing with deductions back then. They would simply take the round away from the offender and give it to the recipient of the foul. In this case I had Gavilan winning the 5th, so nothing else is done because he won the round anyway. Strange looking at it without a point deduction from the total but that is how it was done back then

Good pick. Gavilan was a great fighter and fun to watch. Turner was really good and would have been a champ in many eras.

[Counter-puncher]

Guty Espadas v Betulio Gonzalez

Round 1: 10-9 Espadas
Round 2: 10-9 Espadas
Round 3: 10-9 Espadas
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Espadas
Round 7: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 8: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 9: 10-9 Espadas
Round 10: 10-9 Espadas
Round 11: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 12: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 13: 10-10 Even
Round 14: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 15: 10-9 Espadas

Total: 145-143 Espadas (actual scores: 144-142 and 148-144 both for Gonzalez and a 146-146 card for a majority win for Gonzalez)

First of all, although an excellent fight, I wish the image was a bit sharper. High-def it's not. Still, I enjoyed the fight. What frustrated me - as a Betulio Gonzalez fan - is why Gonzalez fought Espadas' fight when he had reach and excellent boxing ability. To go inside with such a hard, short puncher was ridiculous. It made for a very good fight, but made his work so difficult. I had heard at the time the decision was controversial and now seeing it I can see why. Close fight.

great last round

[gilgamesh]

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 2
January 28, 1974

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Ali
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Ali
Round 6: Ali
Round 7: Frazier
Round 8: Ali *
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Frazier
Round 11: Ali *
Round 12: Ali

I never realized how comfortably Ali controlled this one. Mostly shutting down Frazier at every turn with the clinching. He takes some good shots in there, but mostly is able to shut down the offense of Joe.

The * indicates rounds I feel could be argued the other way.

[Seamus]

Graciano Rocchigiani vs Michael Nunn

R1.10-9 MN
R2.10-9 MN
R3.10-9 GR
R4.10-9 GR
R5.10-9 GR
R6.10-9 GR
R7.10-9 GR
R8.10-9 GR
R9.10-9 GR
R10.10-9 GR
R11.10-9 GR
R12.10-9 MN

Graciano Rocchigiani 117-111

A good example of the guy with all the skill advantages just not being able to win, because he couldn't adapt his strategy to the man in front of him. Nunn wins the first minute of almost every round just by being busy, but a high pct of what he's throwing is getting blocked, then after a ridiculous amount of blocked jabs and futile flurries, Rocchigiani lands enough to win most of the rounds. I think better strategy for Nunn would have been to throw far fewer jabs while concentrating on hooks to the body to bring Rcoky's guard down. Not a great fight by the way.

[oogiebe]

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 2
January 28, 1974

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Ali
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Ali
Round 6: Ali
Round 7: Frazier
Round 8: Ali *
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Frazier
Round 11: Ali *
Round 12: Ali

I never realized how comfortably Ali controlled this one. Mostly shutting down Frazier at every turn with the clinching. He takes some good shots in there, but mostly is able to shut down the offense of Joe.

The * indicates rounds I feel could be argued the other way.

10-2? Geez, are you really gonna make me watch this again? I don't remember it being an exceptional fight.

[gilgamesh]

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 2
January 28, 1974

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Ali
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Ali
Round 6: Ali
Round 7: Frazier
Round 8: Ali *
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Frazier
Round 11: Ali *
Round 12: Ali

I never realized how comfortably Ali controlled this one. Mostly shutting down Frazier at every turn with the clinching. He takes some good shots in there, but mostly is able to shut down the offense of Joe.

The * indicates rounds I feel could be argued the other way.

10-2? Geez, are you really gonna make me watch this again? I don't remember it being an exceptional fight.

It wasn't exceptional, I just didn't think Frazier was ever able to really get going in this bout. Ali just kinda grabbed him every time he started getting some offense going.

Some rounds he might land 1 good, snappy shot, but he'd mostly be outworked.

Rounds 7 and 10 were the only clear rounds for Frazier. There were others where you could make the argument for him, but this is easily his weakest effort of the 3 bouts.

[DrDuke]

I had Ali-Frazier 2 much closer.

[Woldemar]

Meldrick Taylor vs Irleis Perez

Taylor wins in all 10 rounds (100-90)

Taylor outclass Cubanito and landing many big shots.Perez tried to answer but Taylor's hand speed and defense was too good for Cuban.

[Ambling Alp II]

10-2? Geez, are you really gonna make me watch this again? I don't remember it being an exceptional fight.

It wasn't exceptional, I just didn't think Frazier was ever able to really get going in this bout. Ali just kinda grabbed him every time he started getting some offense going.

Some rounds he might land 1 good, snappy shot, but he'd mostly be outworked.

Rounds 7 and 10 were the only clear rounds for Frazier. There were others where you could make the argument for him, but this is easily his weakest effort of the 3 bouts.

It was a good fight; it just fails in comparison to the 3rd one.
I had Ali winning 8 rounds to 4, which is about what most people thought.
Ali didn't clown much in this fight, he was sharp and just went upon his business and did what he needed to do to win.

[scartissue]

Watched an uneventful fight recently, basically because it was there and I hadn't seen it. It was the 1980 Clyde Gray v Roger 'The Dodger' Leonard fight fought on the undercard of the first Leonard-Duran fight. I knew Gray lost but I was a fan of Gray's back in the day and needed to see what he had lost. He was an old 33 with a ton of scartissue and this was his second to last fight. And every network was pushing anyone called Leonard. Scored on Canada's 5 point system.

Round 1: 5-5 Even
Round 2: 5-4 Leonard
Round 3: 5-4 Leonard
Round 4: 5-4 Leonard
Round 5: 5-5 Even
Round 6: 5-4 Gray
Round 7: 5-4 Leonard
Round 8: 5-4 Leonard
Round 9: 5-4 Leonard
Round 10: 5-4 Gray

Total: 48-44 Leonard (actual scores: 47-45 Gray, 48-45 Leonard and 48-46 Leonard for a split win for Leonard)

Again, this is a fight to miss. Nothing eventful really took place. I just needed to see Gray in action again. I will say though that if this was the 1974 version of Clyde Gray, he would have gone through Roger the Dodger like a knife through butter.

[gilgamesh]

It wasn't exceptional, I just didn't think Frazier was ever able to really get going in this bout. Ali just kinda grabbed him every time he started getting some offense going.

Some rounds he might land 1 good, snappy shot, but he'd mostly be outworked.

Rounds 7 and 10 were the only clear rounds for Frazier. There were others where you could make the argument for him, but this is easily his weakest effort of the 3 bouts.

It was a good fight; it just fails in comparison to the 3rd one.
I had Ali winning 8 rounds to 4, which is about what most people thought.
Ali didn't clown much in this fight, he was sharp and just went upon his business and did what he needed to do to win.

Yeah I had a few asterix rounds next to Ali that you could've argued for Joe so I can see 8 rounds to 4. Not any closer than that though.

[gilgamesh]

Dude in a fight at that level should really know that sh!t

You'd think. You'd also think that the commission would have done something about it. The judge that scored it for Marquez should have been drawn and quartered.

I don't think it's exactly outrageous to have had Marquez winning, but what was outrageous was the judge who didn't realize that you scored a round with 3 knockdowns 10-6 because "He didn't now a round could be scored any wider than 10-7".

If I were the head of the commission I'd have fired him on the spot when he uttered that excuse. If you're judging a Championship fight, and you don't know how to judge, that's a black eye for the whole sport.

[gilgamesh]

I actually once had an argument with a pro fight manager about the Paez v Grove fight and he told me "You can't score a round 10-6"

Terrible. I'd have been trying to get ahold of his clients to be like "You sure you want this guy managing you? He literally doesn't know how the sport works"

[oogiebe]

You'd think. You'd also think that the commission would have done something about it. The judge that scored it for Marquez should have been drawn and quartered.

I don't think it's exactly outrageous to have had Marquez winning, but what was outrageous was the judge who didn't realize that you scored a round with 3 knockdowns 10-6 because "He didn't now a round could be scored any wider than 10-7".

If I were the head of the commission I'd have fired him on the spot when he uttered that excuse. If you're judging a Championship fight, and you don't know how to judge, that's a black eye for the whole sport.

I was referring to the mistake.

[gilgamesh]

I don't think it's exactly outrageous to have had Marquez winning, but what was outrageous was the judge who didn't realize that you scored a round with 3 knockdowns 10-6 because "He didn't now a round could be scored any wider than 10-7".

If I were the head of the commission I'd have fired him on the spot when he uttered that excuse. If you're judging a Championship fight, and you don't know how to judge, that's a black eye for the whole sport.

I was referring to the mistake.

The guy that had the 10-7 round had it even I think. He was the reason for it being a draw. One judge actually had Marquez losing the first round 10-6 and still winning overall.

Personally I did think he won 7 rounds to Pac's 5 in the fight, but because Pac won the first round so emphatically with the 3 knockdowns I still wound up having him ahead by 1 point at the end.

Great fight. The 2nd best of their series, and honestly we may have all been lucky about the mistake because if not for the first bout being a draw who knows if they would've ever had the rematches.

[oogiebe]

I was referring to the mistake.

The guy that had the 10-7 round had it even I think. He was the reason for it being a draw. One judge actually had Marquez losing the first round 10-6 and still winning overall.

Personally I did think he won 7 rounds to Pac's 5 in the fight, but because Pac won the first round so emphatically with the 3 knockdowns I still wound up having him ahead by 1 point at the end.

Great fight. The 2nd best of their series, and honestly we may have all been lucky about the mistake because if not for the first bout being a draw who knows if they would've ever had the rematches.

you're right.