Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark

[Noxy]

So the one thing we can state with certainty is that it still gets up Froch's (ample) hooter that he didn't get to fight Calzaghe and he is never going to stop the sniping.

And DeGale wanted to fight Froch but he retired instead.

He did and all! I’d forgotten about that. Froch has zero interest in it.

[Ruthless-RKO]

And DeGale wanted to fight Froch but he retired instead.

He did and all! I’d forgotten about that. Froch has zero interest in it.

He did to DeGale what he claims Calzaghe did to him.

[Boxerbeetle]

Calzaghe was miles better than Froch; he would have embarrassed him far worse than Ward did.

[rio]

Froch wanting to fight Calzaghe is fake news. He wanted nothing to do with Joe, hence the reason why he turned down the fight twice. He forgets to mention that when saying he always wanted that fight.

[Glass Joe]

Shame Calzaghe - Otke never happened, would have in this day and age of boxing, Joe would have schooled and stopped Ottke.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Shame Calzaghe - Otke never happened, would have in this day and age of boxing, Joe would have schooled and stopped Ottke.

Ottke was a slippery bugger. I think it would have been a dull affair.

[Roco]

Froch wanting to fight Calzaghe is fake news. He wanted nothing to do with Joe, hence the reason why he turned down the fight twice. He forgets to mention that when saying he always wanted that fight.

Not aware of this, can you elaborate.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Froch wanting to fight Calzaghe is fake news. He wanted nothing to do with Joe, hence the reason why he turned down the fight twice. He forgets to mention that when saying he always wanted that fight.

Not aware of this, can you elaborate.

X2

[Coco]

While I believe that Froch would have been schooled by JC, it never happened, IMO due to the fact that JC had bigger fish to fry.
Nevertheless it is the story of his sicknote WBO stanza that the question will always be asked.
For me he always did the business in style and was the best out there but his resume is hardly the who's who.
Some people say he ducked Froch as Collins ducked Calzaghe but at the end of the day you are looking for the big paydays in the twilight of your career, rather than to take on the unprove young lions for chump change.

[GPTM1403]

I think there is a case for saying Froch simply wasn't at Calzaghe's level at that time so he wasn't going to be value. I mean supposed he comfortably beats Froch, like 118s or 119s, maybe shut outs, (realistically considering at this stage and further down the line Kessler beats Froch and that's not the Kessler that Calzaghe beat) and Froch basically offers his chin, people would be saying it was another soft defence.

[Boxerbeetle]

Interesting to think what might have happened to Froch if he’d actually fought Calzaghe when it was being mooted. I’d say there’s a decent chance it turns into a Lacy-esq schooling and ruins the rest of his career.

[GPTM1403]

Interesting to think what might have happened to Froch if he’d actually fought Calzaghe when it was being mooted. I’d say there’s a decent chance it turns into a Lacy-esq schooling and ruins the rest of his career.

Strong chance he's not in the super 6 off the back of it. And that made him.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Interesting to think what might have happened to Froch if he’d actually fought Calzaghe when it was being mooted. I’d say there’s a decent chance it turns into a Lacy-esq schooling and ruins the rest of his career.

Strong chance he's not in the super 6 off the back of it. And that made him.

Wasn't Froch red hot at the time. Would he not have given Joe a good fight?

[Controversial]

It such a shame JC had such brittle hands, even before he turned pro his hands were a problem. He often couldn't spar due to hand injuries, just think how much better he would have been.

When I saw JC in his early career he was a huge puncher.
One of the biggest one-punch fighters I’ve seen.
Then the hands became a complete mess.
The fact he was able to change his style completely and become of the Greatest ever British volume punchers deserves huge credit.
If that style change came from Enzo then he needs huge credit to.
I’d love if Enzo was to be entered in the Hall of Fame some day.

were the bad hands caused by his tendency to punch with the inside Iof his glove / incorrect technique?

Or was his incorrect technique a result of having brittle hands?

I never quite knew the answer to this one.

JC was advised by a doctor to stop boxing when he was an amateur as his hands were so knackered. It was a huge problem throughout his career and would go through entire camps without sparring or doing bag work.

[smiling assassin]

Interesting to think what might have happened to Froch if he’d actually fought Calzaghe when it was being mooted. I’d say there’s a decent chance it turns into a Lacy-esq schooling and ruins the rest of his career.

Strong chance he's not in the super 6 off the back of it. And that made him.

Wasn't Froch red hot at the time. Would he not have given Joe a good fight?

I honestly think Froch would of got made to look foolish against Calzaghe. I agree that it could of Been ‘Lacy-esq’ but then Froch needs credit for his mental toughness, something Lacy didn’t look like having

[Steveh583]

Froch wanting to fight Calzaghe is fake news. He wanted nothing to do with Joe, hence the reason why he turned down the fight twice. He forgets to mention that when saying he always wanted that fight.

Not aware of this, can you elaborate.

X2

FW "claimed" he turned the fight down. I can't think on any subject so much faith has been put in that man

[knockout]

Calzaghe was the better fighter than Froch (both were great) - in the time machine scenario where a fight happened with both at their peak. I would give Joe a points win.

Resume wise, Froch is in a different league to Calzaghe.

Carl fought high level opponents one after the other, probably the best resume in modern British boxing.

Calzaghe (largely due to FW influence & possible due to having a caring father as a trainer) wasted his mid career and his late career wins against legends in Hopkins and RJJ were tarnished as RJJ was an aged fighter and although Hopkins was fresher than RJJ he was fighting 15lbs over his best weight.

Calzaghe could have fought Ottke, Beyer, he could have gone up and fought Clinton Woods or Dariusz for 175lb world titles.

He could have fought RJJ earlier, he could have rematched Robin Reid, he could have rematched Eubank even.

Intead after winning the title in a great performance against Eubank he had fights with :

Branko Sobot, 14-1 (but who had been stopped at middleweight in an EBU challenge)
JC Gimenez, a 38 year old who Nigel Benn had beat 4 years
Robin Reid - Great fight, close fight, controversial result... rematch must have been a money spinner but never happened
Rick Thornton - beaten by Henry Wharton 4 years earlier
Dave Starie - good domestic level/euro level fighter
Omar Sheika - Beaten by legend Journeyman Tony Booth 2 years earlier
Richie Woodhall - Great pedigree, great guy but really a middleweight who had already been dropped several times at supermiddle. So fairly low risk at this stage
Mario Veit - undefeated in 30 fighter but never beaten anyone of note.
Will McIntyre - already been beaten by Mr Sheika
Charles Brewer - ex world champ, but had already been beaten by Ottke and Antwun Echols in recent fights

Ok I am bored now.. .but you get the drift, every opponent was safe and had been exposed previously.

Such as waste of an amazing talent, I like Joe a lot but his career is an example to all fighters out there... step out of your comfort zone if you want to be internationally considered an all time great.

[dookus]

I never realised till watching the documentary what a huge part the hand injuries played in his bumbling mid-career. How good could he have been without them?

[dookus]

Carl fought high level opponents one after the other, probably the best resume in modern British boxing.

I agree. Probably only behind Lewis for 21st century British fighters.

[THEBUTCH]

Lewis and Froch stand head & shoulders above the rest when it comes down to the quality of opposition faced.

[stujones]

Genuinely believe he was one of the best managed fighters in this country ever. Undoubtedly a great, the Lacy win will always be up there amongst the finest displays in a british boxing ring - whatever we might think of Lacy as an after timer - it was an incredible performance..... BUT - what would have happened and how would Ricky Hatton be ranked had he not fought Mayweather and Pacquiao - I really cannot see Joe beating a prime Hopkins or Roy Jones - and he could have fought these at their prime. I think Roy would have embarrased him really. Actually, I would go further - if Roy has any ambition when they actually fought - he should have beaten him then - Joe was badly hurt IMO when he was floored and Roy almost apologised.

[margaret thatcher]

Lewis and Froch stand head & shoulders above the rest when it comes down to the quality of opposition faced.

if it's simply faced, then khan is right around there with the likes of froch etc

[coghaugen11]

Myth on Froch’s opp. Pascal and Dirrell lacked basic old school boxing fundamentals (as did Froch for that matter). Embarrassing what a near 50 year old Bernard did to Pascal (push-ups between rounds or something).

Taylor, Johnson and Abraham were shot to bits and none were super-middles. Kessler was not the same man who faced Calzaghe.

The Super Six forced him to fight these fighters, win, lose or draw! Paid very handsomely. Why wouldn’t he.....

Lennox Lewis’ opp is genuinely mental - all the old school high class fighters by the boatload.

[JC]

Lewis and Froch stand head & shoulders above the rest when it comes down to the quality of opposition faced.

if it's simply faced, then khan is right around there with the likes of froch etc

Hatton too on that criteria.

[Deserter]

Genuinely believe he was one of the best managed fighters in this country ever. Undoubtedly a great, the Lacy win will always be up there amongst the finest displays in a british boxing ring - whatever we might think of Lacy as an after timer - it was an incredible performance..... BUT - what would have happened and how would Ricky Hatton be ranked had he not fought Mayweather and Pacquiao - I really cannot see Joe beating a prime Hopkins or Roy Jones - and he could have fought these at their prime. I think Roy would have embarrased him really. Actually, I would go further - if Roy has any ambition when they actually fought - he should have beaten him then - Joe was badly hurt IMO when he was floored and Roy almost apologised.

Sorry Stu, but have to disagree with you here. I could see a prime Joe beating a prime B-Hop, purely because I think his style would always be a bit of kryptonite for Hopkins in terms of work-rate etc. With Roy, I'm with you completely in terms of prime for prime, but disagree on their actual fight - far too many people forget that the shot that dropped Joe was to all intents and purposes a forearm smash - it wasn't actually Roy's glove that connected, so was a bit of a freak shot.

There's also a tendency when doing these things to talk as if Calzaghe was a constant rather than actually assessing where he was relative to his prime when he took these fights himself.