The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

elmersalsa
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

oogiebe wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 18:26 What about his fighting style and things he did special in the ring?
I do not see much of his fighting style. The only footage I saw of him in YouTube was his second
fight with Johnny Kilbane.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by oogiebe »

watsupdoc87 wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 06:57
oogiebe wrote: 07 Jun 2020, 18:46 Attell was charged with game fixing in the Black Sox Scandal in 1919, but the charges were dismissed before trial. He also was suspected of other infractions including fixing fights, and using drugs during a fight.
What drugs?
Cocaine, diminishing his performance in the bout. Think it was vs Knockout Brown. He told the commission he had od'd on cocaine, thus his poor performance.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by watsupdoc87 »

oogiebe wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 16:10
watsupdoc87 wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 06:57

What drugs?
Cocaine, diminishing his performance in the bout. Think it was vs Knockout Brown. He told the commission he had od'd on cocaine, thus his poor performance.
How widespread was cocaine use in 1919?
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by oogiebe »

watsupdoc87 wrote: 10 Jun 2020, 11:58
oogiebe wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 16:10

Cocaine, diminishing his performance in the bout. Think it was vs Knockout Brown. He told the commission he had od'd on cocaine, thus his poor performance.
How widespread was cocaine use in 1919?
:maybe:
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

The great Eusebio Pedroza broke his record of interrupted title defenses at featherweight with 20.

But, the reason I have rated Abe Attell over Pedroza is because he had much more fights and fought much better competition. Having 154 contests is a lot.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Well, at #82, with no further delay is a member of the Black Murderers' Row: The great Holman Williams!

#82. Holman Williams:
Record: 146-31-11 (1NC) with 36KOs
KO Pct is 25%
Career: 1932-48
World Titles Held: None
Highlights:
Top welterweight and middleweight contender of the 1930s and 40s decade that fought over 189 professional bouts, winning 146 of them. Fought for 16 years as a pro. Lost twice in first 34 fights. From August 1933 to October 1935, went unbeaten in 27 straight bouts. Lost one fight in 31 bouts from July 1937 to December 1939. Record in that time frame was 26-1-3 with 5KOs. And from July 1944 to October 1945, had only 1 defeat in 23 fights. (Record: 18-1-4 with 1KO). Was Colored Lightweight and Middleweight Champion. Beat 5 out of 7 hall of fame boxers he faced. Record versus hall of famers is 10-16-2 with (1NC) and 0KOs. Beat 2 out of 4 world champions. Record versus world champions is 2-3, 0KOs. Although, a top contender, never received a title shot.

Historical Impact: Top welterweight and middleweight contender that was on the top of the rankings for at least 10 years. Not a big puncher, but gifted and slick technician. Was considered by the great late American trainer Eddie Futch as one of the best fighters that he ever seen. Futch said that he would rather watch Williams shadow box than see other fighters fight. A member of the Black Murderers' Row, fought the cream of the best black fighters of his era: Charley Burley, Archie Moore, Jack Chase, Cocoa Kid, Eddie Booker, Lloyd Marshall, and other black fighters that did not get an opportunity for a title shot.

Defining Fight: W15 Charley Burley (V)....October 16, 1942....."Beat his nemesis to win the Colored Middleweight Championship"
Other Defining Fights: W10 Tommy Paul, W10 Archie Moore, L10 Cocoa Kid, W12 Cocoa Kid (III), W10 Lloyd Marshall and L10 Jake LaMotta.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Holman Williams, fought hall of famers Charley Burley 7 times and Cocoa Kid 13 times!

Cocoa Kid like had his number. He beat Williams. 8 times!
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Did you know that the great Holman Williams was stopped only 3 times in 189 bouts? He must had a heck of a chin!
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Why this great fighter, Holman Williams, did not get a title shot? He was a top contender at welterweight and middleweight for 10 years!

Jack Chase couldn't beat him in 4 tries. He had Chase's number.

Williams also split with the great Charley Burley. They fought 7 times, and each split in 3 wins and a NC.

He also split with the great Archie Moore. They fought twice.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Well, we past the great Holman Williams. At #81, we got one of the most underrated fighters ever. He was an all-time great at featherweight and jr. lightweight. He is from Accra, Ghana, the Professor and great African warrior, Azumah Nelson!

#81. Azumah Nelson
Record: 39-6-2 with 28KOs.
KO Pct is 72%
Career: 1979-98; 2008
World Titles Held: WBC World Featherweight Champion (1984-88), WBC World Jr. Lightweight Champion (1988-94, 1995-97)
Highlights:
A two-division world champion that fought in 24 world championship fights. Has a record of 18-4-2 with 12KOs in world title engagements. Beat 7 out of 10 world champions he faced. Record versus world titlists is 9-6-2 with 4KOs. Beat 2 out of 4 hall of famers. Record vs hall of fame boxers is 2-3-1 with 2KOs. Won his first 13 pro bouts, in which he won the Ghanian Featherweight Crown (3rd pro fight), the African Continent Featherweight Title (6th pro fight), and the Commonwealth British Empire Featherweight Crown in his 10th pro fight. In his 14th pro bout, challenged the great legendary champ Salvador Sanchez for the WBC World Featherweight Title. He lost to Sanchez by TKO in the 15th and last round in an exciting and grueling battle. But rebounded from that loss and won his next 18 fights, winning the WBC World Featherweight and Jr. Lightweight crowns. Made 6 successful title defenses of the featherweight throne. Relinquished featherweight crown. Made 13 title defenses of the WBC World Jr. Lightweight title in two reigns. Made 11 of those title defenses in first reign and almost 6 years. Stopped once in 46 fights.

Historical Impact: Made history as one of the greatest featherweight and jr lightweight boxers ever. Was a late substitute for the WBC World title fight against champion Salvador Sanchez. He lost to Sanchez by a grueling 15th round TKO in New York City. It was Sanchez' last fight. One of African continent greatest fighters, is considered the best fighter ever of his country of Ghana.

Defining Fight: WTKO8 Jeff Fenech (II)....March 1, 1992...."In the Ring Magazine Upset of the Year, he proves that is the better man the second time around"
Other Defining Fights: LTKO15 Salvador Sanchez, WKO11 Wilfredo Gomez, WTKO12 Mario Martinez (II), L12 Pernell Whitaker, D12 Jeff Fenech and WTKO5 Gabriel Ruelas (II).
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by margaret thatcher »

Excited to see where Bert Gilroy will place :bag:
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

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margaret thatcher wrote: 18 Jun 2020, 01:37 Excited to see where Bert Gilroy will place :bag:
Sorry, not a fat chance!
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

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The FIRST TIME we ever saw Azumah Nelson in the US was on his late substitution call for the challenge of the WBC World Featherweight Crown owned by the great Salvador Sanchez of Mexico. Nelson only had 13 fights. And by that time, he was champion in 3 levels of competition: Ghanian (country), African (continent) and British Empire featherweight champ.

We never knew that he was going to give Sanchez a tough battle. But, he did. It was probably Sanchez' toughest fight of his entire career of 46 professional fights.

Nelson came out firing from the get go. Sanchez was a little confused at the start. But, the great champion settled down when he dropped Nelson on the 7th round with a beautiful timed left hook. Nelson got up in a hurry. And the war of attrition started.

In round 11, Nelson rocked Sanchez. Sanchez was hurt, but he did not showed it. If Nelson would?had a little more of?experience, he?would have found out that Sanchez was in queer street and would have gone for the kill. Sanchez' expressions never let you know how bad he was if he was hurt. Because he was always in great shape and had great concentration.

In the toe to toe exchanges, Sanchez excelled. He was better with crisp punching, meanwhile Nelson shots were wide open. He was very strong, but Sanchez was calm. He had the experience of the championship rounds.

In round 15th, Sanchez went for the kill. Both needed this round to win in their minds. Sanchez dropped Nelson again with the left hook. Nelson was spent and Sanchez went all out on attacking mode to finish him. Referee Tony Perez saw enough and stopped the contest. Sanchez retains his WBC featherweight crown. It was Sanchez' last fight of his career.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

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The FIRST TIME we ever saw Azumah Nelson in the US was on his late substitution call for the challenge of the WBC World Featherweight Crown owned by the great Salvador Sanchez of Mexico. Nelson only had 13 fights. And by that time, he was champion in 3 levels of competition: Ghanian (country), African (continent) and British Empire featherweight champ.

We never knew that he was going to give Sanchez a tough battle. But, he did. It was probably Sanchez' toughest fight of his entire career of 46 professional fights.

Nelson came out firing from the get go. Sanchez was a little confused at the start. But, the great champion settled down when he dropped Nelson on the 7th round with a beautiful timed left hook. Nelson got up in a hurry. And the war of attrition started.

In round 11, Nelson rocked Sanchez. Sanchez was hurt, but he did not showed it. If Nelson would?had a little more of?experience, he?would have found out that Sanchez was in queer street and would have gone for the kill. Sanchez' expressions never let you know how bad he was if he was hurt. Because he was always in great shape and had great concentration.

In the toe to toe exchanges, Sanchez excelled. He was better with crisp punching, meanwhile Nelson shots were wide open. He was very strong, but Sanchez was calm. He had the experience of the championship rounds.

In round 15th, Sanchez went for the kill. Both needed this round to win in their minds. Sanchez dropped Nelson again with the left hook. Nelson was spent and Sanchez went all out on attacking mode to finish him. Referee Tony Perez saw enough and stopped the contest. Sanchez retains his WBC featherweight crown. It was Sanchez' last fight of his career.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Bujia »

Nelson was something of an enigma. I really liked him in some fights and disliked him in others. He switched up his style and tactics a lot. He could bounce around the ring on his toes playing the matador behind the jab in one fight, then he would be the bull in his next. He could look very awkward in some fights, but superb technically in others. Hard to get a feel for. Which, I guess was his intention. However, it did make for some lackluster performances.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Azumah Nelson rebounded in the year 1983 when he was matched against top featherweight American contender Irving Mitchell.

Mitchell was anointed as one of the future stars of the 1980s decade. He was undefeated in 16 bouts. He was a lanky tall southpaw at 5'9".

He was outboxing Nelson in my view, for at least 3 straight rounds. In round 6, Nelson caught him with a hook and a right and that was it for Mitchell. He got up and the referee stopped the fight.

Nelson looked more polished and more calm than in the Sanchez' fight. He gained a lot of experience. And was in the way for another crack at the featherweight crown.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Bujia wrote: 21 Jun 2020, 15:48 Nelson was something of an enigma. I really liked him in some fights and disliked him in others. He switched up his style and tactics a lot. He could bounce around the ring on his toes playing the matador behind the jab in one fight, then he would be the bull in his next. He could look very awkward in some fights, but superb technically in others. Hard to get a feel for. Which, I guess was his intention. However, it did make for some lackluster performances.
That is what I saw myself on viewing him in his fights. I used to ask myself why he switch something that was working in the beginning anf then try other stuff. I guess he was trying to prove that he was a complete all around boxer.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Azumah Nelson second try for the WBC World Featherweight Crown owned by the great champion Wilfredo Gomez of Puerto Rico was a classic contest. The date was Saturday, December 8, 1984.

I was surprised at Gomez approach to the fight. He was always a an all-out warrior that could bang with either fist. But, it seems that at 126lbs, he lost the power in his punching. This was not the same guy that used to crack 122 pounders years earlier. Neither the same guy, although he got the beating of his life, against Salvador Sanchez. How then he win the WBC crown? He outpointed champion and countryman Juan LaPorte. It was a lackluster performance, but it got the job done.

In this fight with Nelson, Gomez was the boxer. Not the constant agressor that he always portrayed.

It was a great fight. Back and forth action by both men. By the 10th round, Gomez looked spent. He was winning the fight in two judges' scorecards. The third judge had it even. So, Nelson needed a knockout to win. The fight was in San Juan's Hiram Bithorn Stadium in Puerto Rico. They were exalting on their hero Gomez.

And Nelson without a hurry, put his punches together and stopped Gomez, dropping him twice in round 11 of 12. Nelson became the WBC World Featherweight Champion winning by knockout in the 11th round. He became Ghana's second world champion ever after countryman Davey Kotey did the trick against legendary champion Ruben Olivares in 1975. Nelson became the 6th world champion from the African continent.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

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Now as champion, Azumah Nelson first title defense was against Juvenal Ordenes of Chile. The fight was in Miami.

Ordenes was a pretty good boxer. A counter-puncher say at least. He had great movement and an excellent jab. And he was doing well for the first 4 rounds. He was ahead of Nelson up to the 5th round when The Professor started to unleash. A right uppercut to Ordenes' jaw and that was all she wrote. Nelson retains the WBC World Crown in his first defense.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

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It is IRONIC that Pat Cowdell from Birmingham, England fell to the great Azumah Nelson in one round for Nelson's second defense of his WBC World Featherweight Title.

Cowdell went the whole distance with the great Salvador Sanchez and lost by a split decision. A fifteen-year ring veteran, Cowdell achieved a lot in boxing. He was twice European featherweight champion and British Empire Featherweight champ. He had a lot of experience. But, I guess styles makes fights or Nelson was getting better? Or maybe it was Cowdell's time to retire?

Anyway, it was a precious left hook/uppercut on Cowdell's jaw and that was it. The referee counted to ten. He was knocked out!
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Jaywheel »

It's like rain on your wedding day. It's a free ride when you've already paid. It's the good advice that you just didn't take
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Azumah Nelson beats Marcos Villasana of Mexico for the second time. It was Nelson's 4th title defense.

His first fight with Villasana was available on YouTube 4 years ago. Now, it is nowhere to be found.

The Professor won with ring smarts. He showed the paying customers and promoters alike that he is indeed a complete fighter and not just a pressure fighter-brawler. He boxed some rounds floating like a butterfly a la Muhammad Ali and mixed it up well when sometimes he had to slug it out. He showed that he could win in different ways.

Villasana was on his 3rd try fighting for a world title. A veteran of over 40 fights, he hit Nelson low in the 5th and 11th rounds. The referee, John Thomas of California, deducted a point each round.

It was a comfortable win for The Professor. No doubt. There were rumours before the fight that Nelson had trouble making the weight of 126lbs.

Villasana, became champion when Nelson relinquished the WBC crown. This is how WBC president Jose Sulaiman of Mexico helped many his countrymen to become champions.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Nile4000 »

elmersalsa wrote: 21 Jun 2020, 15:51 Azumah Nelson rebounded in the year 1983 when he was matched against top featherweight American contender Irving Mitchell.

Mitchell was anointed as one of the future stars of the 1980s decade. He was undefeated in 16 bouts. He was a lanky tall southpaw at 5'9".

He was outboxing Nelson in my view, for at least 3 straight rounds. In round 6, Nelson caught him with a hook and a right and that was it for Mitchell. He got up and the referee stopped the fight.

Nelson looked more polished and more calm than in the Sanchez' fight. He gained a lot of experience. And was in the way for another crack at the featherweight crown.
Remember that fight. Thought Mitchell was going to be something. Come to think about it, wonder why Bernard Taylor didn't fight Azumah Nelson?
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Nile4000 wrote: 27 Jun 2020, 13:10
elmersalsa wrote: 21 Jun 2020, 15:51 Azumah Nelson rebounded in the year 1983 when he was matched against top featherweight American contender Irving Mitchell.

Mitchell was anointed as one of the future stars of the 1980s decade. He was undefeated in 16 bouts. He was a lanky tall southpaw at 5'9".

He was outboxing Nelson in my view, for at least 3 straight rounds. In round 6, Nelson caught him with a hook and a right and that was it for Mitchell. He got up and the referee stopped the fight.

Nelson looked more polished and more calm than in the Sanchez' fight. He gained a lot of experience. And was in the way for another crack at the featherweight crown.
Remember that fight. Thought Mitchell was going to be something. Come to think about it, wonder why Bernard Taylor didn't fight Azumah Nelson?
Bernard Taylor was not something to be awed about. He was not in The Professor's class.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Nile4000 »

elmersalsa wrote: 28 Jun 2020, 03:28
Nile4000 wrote: 27 Jun 2020, 13:10

Remember that fight. Thought Mitchell was going to be something. Come to think about it, wonder why Bernard Taylor didn't fight Azumah Nelson?
Bernard Taylor was not something to be awed about. He was not in The Professor's class.
True, and I think his failure to fight guys like Laporte, Lockridge, and Nelson hurt him in the long run.
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