WHICH FOES WOULD BE BEST TO LOCK UP HOF SPOT FOR CALZAGHE?

[Axe]

the response to the original poll has been great!! and since most agree joe needs at least one more significant win to lock up a spot in HOF, what 1 or 2 foes would best achieve that goal for joe?

IMO a win over any ONE of the following would secure HOF berth for JC:

1. tomasz adamek=seems best at 175 with b-hop retiring
2. winky wright=would help joe's rep more at catchweight of 164, than if winky came up to 168
3. bernard hopkins (especially at 175)=seems to be unlikely with retirement
4. jermain taylor=only if joe went to 160 & beat current titlist...if JT had to move up a win for joe wouldnt mean as much. taylor at 168 would be in 2nd group

IMO it would take a win over TWO of these guys to get him in:

1. mikael kessler=only if he beats limited beyer
2. glen johnson=stock dropped when tarver got dominated
3. clinton woods=good fighter, but international win means more for HOF
4. zsolt erdei=soft schedule is what perpetuates wbo's 2nd-class rep
5. antonio tarver=only if tarver gets a decent win BEFORE he fights joe

i have purposely left out beyer, mundine, RJJ, because IMO they are another level below kessler, etc.

which fighters do YOU think would most likely secure JC's spot in HOF?

Totally agree with the list, word for word. Adamek, Hopkins, Winky and Taylor (at 160) would get Joe in.

Wins over Erdei, Kessler, etc would push him to the brink, in fact a farewell fight over a B level opponent following a win over these guys would get him in as well imo.

[shoutout]

Kessler needs Calzaghe more than Calzaghe needs him. Especially to make a name for himself and to get credit.

Calzaghe needs Kessler (or better: the winner of Kessler vs. Beyer) to establish himself as THE champion at 168. A precondition for HOF status, really.

Kessler will built his reputation further by beating Beyer. It's true that he would need to turn the tables on Calzaghe next to achieve dominance RIGHT NOW. But in contrast to Calzaghe he does not need to do it right now - he has still several years of time. He's fought for only two 2 years at the highest level, not 10.

Which means: at this juncture, Calzaghe needs Kessler more than Kessler needs Calzaghe.

well...i guess we'll have to take our AGREEMENT TO DIASGREE to another level, because IMO, the only way calzaghe "needs" kessler is as a POSSIBLE (but NOT needed) final step to HOF recognition, whereas kessler needs calzaghe in his quest for even BASIC LEGITIMACY on the world stage!!

while calzaghe is enuf of a name to command a marquee opponent like wright or taylor...kessler wont even get a sniff from top 5 P4Pers like them unless he has beaten a top 10 P4Per like joe to get himself some kind of significant NAME RECOGNITION beyond the confines of northern europe!! maybe a fight (vs top-notch opposition) or two (vs quality opposition) in USA will allow the little known kessler to get some name recognition, but outside of an american, joe is the BEST HOPE kessler has for status on world stage...overrated markus beyer surely wont get it for kessler!!

[shoutout]

the response to the original poll has been great!! and since most agree joe needs at least one more significant win to lock up a spot in HOF, what 1 or 2 foes would best achieve that goal for joe?

IMO a win over any ONE of the following would secure HOF berth for JC:

1. tomasz adamek=seems best at 175 with b-hop retiring
2. winky wright=would help joe's rep more at catchweight of 164, than if winky came up to 168
3. bernard hopkins (especially at 175)=seems to be unlikely with retirement
4. jermain taylor=only if joe went to 160 & beat current titlist...if JT had to move up a win for joe wouldnt mean as much. taylor at 168 would be in 2nd group

IMO it would take a win over TWO of these guys to get him in:

1. mikael kessler=only if he beats limited beyer
2. glen johnson=stock dropped when tarver got dominated
3. clinton woods=good fighter, but international win means more for HOF
4. zsolt erdei=soft schedule is what perpetuates wbo's 2nd-class rep
5. antonio tarver=only if tarver gets a decent win BEFORE he fights joe

i have purposely left out beyer, mundine, RJJ, because IMO they are another level below kessler, etc.

which fighters do YOU think would most likely secure JC's spot in HOF?

Totally agree with the list, word for word. Adamek, Hopkins, Winky and Taylor (at 160) would get Joe in.

Wins over Erdei, Kessler, etc would push him to the brink, in fact a farewell fight over a B level opponent following a win over these guys would get him in as well imo.

i guess it depends on who you consider B-level in that weight range, but if you mean beyer or mundine or faded RJJ, i would say that MIGHT be enuf IMO!!

to clarify one thing...i didnt put adamek with the 3 americans because i think he is anywhere near them in P4P sense, but obviously a move to a higher weight naturally brings more risk/reward!! he may not even be any better than unknown quantity kessler, but a MOVE UP in weight always adds more to your status if it is vs top dog of that division...

[pundit]

Kessler needs Calzaghe more than Calzaghe needs him. Especially to make a name for himself and to get credit.

Calzaghe needs Kessler (or better: the winner of Kessler vs. Beyer) to establish himself as THE champion at 168. A precondition for HOF status, really.

Kessler will built his reputation further by beating Beyer. It's true that he would need to turn the tables on Calzaghe next to achieve dominance RIGHT NOW. But in contrast to Calzaghe he does not need to do it right now - he has still several years of time. He's fought for only two 2 years at the highest level, not 10.

Which means: at this juncture, Calzaghe needs Kessler more than Kessler needs Calzaghe.

well...i guess we'll have to take our AGREEMENT TO DIASGREE to another level, because IMO, the only way calzaghe "needs" kessler is as a POSSIBLE (but NOT needed) final step to HOF recognition, whereas kessler needs calzaghe in his quest for even BASIC LEGITIMACY on the world stage!!

while calzaghe is enuf of a name to command a marquee opponent like wright or taylor...kessler wont even get a sniff from top 5 P4Pers like them unless he has beaten a top 10 P4Per like joe to get himself some kind of significant NAME RECOGNITION beyond the confines of northern europe!! maybe a fight (vs top-notch opposition) or two (vs quality opposition) in USA will allow the little known kessler to get some name recognition, but outside of an american, joe is the BEST HOPE kessler has for status on world stage...overrated markus beyer surely wont get it for kessler!!

So in your world Calzaghe gets "world recognition" by a cheap shot at Lacy, while Kessler needs to beat a top 10 pfp fighter (which means: not even Joe Calzaghe could ge thim there...).



Small hint: HOF elections are executed by experts.

P

[pundit]

Kessler needs Calzaghe more than Calzaghe needs him. Especially to make a name for himself and to get credit.

Calzaghe needs Kessler (or better: the winner of Kessler vs. Beyer) to establish himself as THE champion at 168. A precondition for HOF status, really.

Kessler will built his reputation further by beating Beyer. It's true that he would need to turn the tables on Calzaghe next to achieve dominance RIGHT NOW. But in contrast to Calzaghe he does not need to do it right now - he has still several years of time. He's fought for only two 2 years at the highest level, not 10.

Which means: at this juncture, Calzaghe needs Kessler more than Kessler needs Calzaghe.

Just to play devils advocate here Pundit: How can you be sure Kessler will build that reputation? He is, after all, older than Calzaghe was when he hit the world stage, and I'm pretty sure you can find fault with his reign.

I think (or at least hope) that he won't waste as much time as Joe, but who can say? I rate Kessler, highly. And, despite being a Brit, I'm not really a huge fan of Calzaghe. Here's hoping the two can meet, and the argument can be settled. For a few years at least.

You're of course entirely right - we can't know. S-m, a divions I always liked for the mix of fighters, has suffered for too long from beltholders who have shied away from the really big risks; we can only hope that Kessler, the most promising of the younger crop, would be different. One big question mark is Team Palle - do they have it what it takes to get a fighter to the world stage? Maybe, maybe not. Larsen for example never got the fights he deserved. Btw, I reckon that with a less risk averse manager - say, Hennessy - Calzaghe may have delivered the goods already.

P

[pundit]

Kessler wants too much money for Joe yet he'll take a low amount for Beyer whos on the slide.

Nah Kessler needs Joe more to build his name and for credit. Beyer is seen as by Yanks and Canadians as a fighter who lost to Lucas and Green the 1st time.

Only if you think intentional headbutting - or better head-ramming - should be introduced as a new legal punch in boxing.
One can argue the Lucas case, even though it was far from the clear-cut robbery that many here claim. Btw, Lucas would have gotten his re-fight had he not lost to Green.

It's only his WBC belt that matters.

Yep. And: unified WBC-WBA champ sounds somehow better and more meaningful than unified IBF-WBO champ, doesn't it?

[shoutout]

Calzaghe needs Kessler (or better: the winner of Kessler vs. Beyer) to establish himself as THE champion at 168. A precondition for HOF status, really.

Kessler will built his reputation further by beating Beyer. It's true that he would need to turn the tables on Calzaghe next to achieve dominance RIGHT NOW. But in contrast to Calzaghe he does not need to do it right now - he has still several years of time. He's fought for only two 2 years at the highest level, not 10.

Which means: at this juncture, Calzaghe needs Kessler more than Kessler needs Calzaghe.

well...i guess we'll have to take our AGREEMENT TO DIASGREE to another level, because IMO, the only way calzaghe "needs" kessler is as a POSSIBLE (but NOT needed) final step to HOF recognition, whereas kessler needs calzaghe in his quest for even BASIC LEGITIMACY on the world stage!!

while calzaghe is enuf of a name to command a marquee opponent like wright or taylor...kessler wont even get a sniff from top 5 P4Pers like them unless he has beaten a top 10 P4Per like joe to get himself some kind of significant NAME RECOGNITION beyond the confines of northern europe!! maybe a fight (vs top-notch opposition) or two (vs quality opposition) in USA will allow the little known kessler to get some name recognition, but outside of an american, joe is the BEST HOPE kessler has for status on world stage...overrated markus beyer surely wont get it for kessler!!

So in your world Calzaghe gets "world recognition" by a cheap shot at Lacy, while Kessler needs to beat a top 10 pfp fighter (which means: not even Joe Calzaghe could ge thim there...).



Small hint: HOF elections are executed by experts.

P

lacy was not even a top 25 P4P fighter...but the WAY calzaghe DOMINATED him is what got him the world recognition!! unfrotunately for kessler, now that lacy has been exposed, i dont think there are too many big name SMs to give kessler an easy win & similar recognition on the world level...

[Autobarn]

Problem is, boxing suffers from the Yank attitude of 'if it's not delivered to my living room, it didn't happen'. 'If I can't spell his name, fornicate him'. How many p4p lists was Veeraphol Sahaprom on? A guy who won a world bantam title in his 5th pro fight, lost it, won another which he defended 14 times, then lost in a controversial fight that was every bit as good as Corrales-Castillo I (same year). Cos he was in Thailand, he didn't get his dues, and he was ranked behind Rafael Marquez.

Kessler looks to have big fights. Beyer is an important fight. Does anyone think it won't be big in Denmark and Germany (where boxing is hugely popular), and does anyone think it won't have a massive bearing on the way the career of Britain's best since Lewis will go? Boxing is global. 'I'm an American, I'm taking what is mine' Lacy was unable to do just that. The US 'attempts' to showcase Kessler have been embarrassing - Showtime considering Kessler-Joppy, and why? Cos of Joppy's nationality. But this is a crime with all the good fighters around & we can't just judge s/m by standards held by Americans.

There's never been such a strong lineup at super middle that stretches beyond the top 5. Just look at the class, colour and variety in this division, Calzaghe (Wales), Kessler (Denmark), Beyer (Germany), Mundine (Oz), Lacy (States), Bute (Canada via Romania), Andrade (States), Green (Oz)

Calzaghe should fight the elite of the division. What if he fought Winky? How much credit do you get for beating a guy who can't crack an egg at 154? Winky is probably the fight that will hapen - most American fight scribes had Winky a clear winner v Taylor, which is fair enough. And I'd be excited about the fight. It would cross an international bridge & there'd be a market from it on both sides. But hey, Calzaghe has his frail hands full in his own division.

[Max Molyneux]

Kessler wants too much money for Joe yet he'll take a low amount for Beyer whos on the slide.

Nah Kessler needs Joe more to build his name and for credit. Beyer is seen as by Yanks and Canadians as a fighter who lost to Lucas and Green the 1st time.

Only if you think intentional headbutting - or better head-ramming - should be introduced as a new legal punch in boxing.
One can argue the Lucas case, even though it was far from the clear-cut robbery that many here claim. Btw, Lucas would have gotten his re-fight had he not lost to Green.

It's only his WBC belt that matters.

Yep. And: unified WBC-WBA champ sounds somehow better and more meaningful than unified IBF-WBO champ, doesn't it?

Under proper rules in the Green fight, it should of went to the scorecards but you know the Germans.

Calzaghe makes his WBO belt worthy since he's the best at SuperMiddle, Kessler and Beyer ain't far as experianced as him.

Least the IBF doesn't but Guinn at 11 for beating Audley yet it was Danny that did it first and did it when Audley was 14. Biased pudenda.

[pundit]

Under proper rules in the Green fight, it should of went to the scorecards but you know the Germans.

Bollocks. For an intentional headbutt of this quality and with these consequences there is only one possible outcome: disqualification. Green can be happy that he wan't suspended for an extended period.

Calzaghe makes his WBO belt worthy since he's the best at SuperMiddle, Kessler and Beyer ain't far as experianced as him.

This is why the put not once a decent mandatory up for him....
Worthy in my book looks differently.

[Max Molyneux]

Under proper rules in the Green fight, it should of went to the scorecards but you know the Germans.

Bollocks. For an intentional headbutt of this quality and with these consequences there is only one possible outcome: disqualification. Green can be happy that he wan't suspended for an extended period.

Calzaghe makes his WBO belt worthy since he's the best at SuperMiddle, Kessler and Beyer ain't far as experianced as him.

This is why the put not once a decent mandatory up for him....
Worthy in my book looks differently.

The rules state that Green should of got the win on the scorecards since it was apparently a punch that caused it, not a headbutt although he butted him.

That Ben dude would probably know more about that as I've only seen the pics! The cut was worse than Vitali's!

Well maybe there was no one decent enough to put as a mandatory in them times. Veit is probably better than people think though although fringe I guess.

The ones who wern't mandatory were decent though.

[pundit]

The rules state that Green should of got the win on the scorecards since it was apparently a punch that caused it, not a headbutt although he butted him.

Don't write about fight you haven't seen.
A punch ..... if you confuse Green's forehead with a glove, perhaps. But Green has too much hair and is too pale for this.

[Autobarn]

i wonder, maybe my argument about Winky not hitting hard enough to fight Calzaghe could be countered. Winky is incredibly accurate and brilliant at getting in & out of range. That makes up for a lot. His physical strength is also underrated - he backed up Trinidad and Taylor consistently.

[Max Molyneux]

The rules state that Green should of got the win on the scorecards since it was apparently a punch that caused it, not a headbutt although he butted him.

Don't write about fight you haven't seen.
A punch ..... if you confuse Green's forehead with a glove, perhaps. But Green has too much hair and is too pale for this.

I've seen pics and clips though. :P

Man he splattered Beyer though!

[jangeorg]

Kessler wants too much money for Joe yet he'll take a low amount for Beyer whos on the slide.

:

????

TeamPalle offered Beyer approx. 2.35 mill Euro (1.35 mill Euro + TV rights).Or 1.604.817 £

[shoutout]

Problem is, boxing suffers from the Yank attitude of 'if it's not delivered to my living room, it didn't happen'. 'If I can't spell his name, smeg him'. How many p4p lists was Veeraphol Sahaprom on? A guy who won a world bantam title in his 5th pro fight, lost it, won another which he defended 14 times, then lost in a controversial fight that was every bit as good as Corrales-Castillo I (same year). Cos he was in Thailand, he didn't get his dues, and he was ranked behind Rafael Marquez.

Kessler looks to have big fights. Beyer is an important fight. Does anyone think it won't be big in Denmark and Germany (where boxing is hugely popular), and does anyone think it won't have a massive bearing on the way the career of Britain's best since Lewis will go? Boxing is global. 'I'm an American, I'm taking what is mine' Lacy was unable to do just that. The US 'attempts' to showcase Kessler have been embarrassing - Showtime considering Kessler-Joppy, and why? Cos of Joppy's nationality. But this is a crime with all the good fighters around & we can't just judge s/m by standards held by Americans.

There's never been such a strong lineup at super middle that stretches beyond the top 5. Just look at the class, colour and variety in this division, Calzaghe (Wales), Kessler (Denmark), Beyer (Germany), Mundine (Oz), Lacy (States), Bute (Canada via Romania), Andrade (States), Green (Oz)

Calzaghe should fight the elite of the division. What if he fought Winky? How much credit do you get for beating a guy who can't crack an egg at 154? Winky is probably the fight that will hapen - most American fight scribes had Winky a clear winner v Taylor, which is fair enough. And I'd be excited about the fight. It would cross an international bridge & there'd be a market from it on both sides. But hey, Calzaghe has his frail hands full in his own division.

IMO usa prospect andrade is very overrated & nowhere near the MWs like sturm, abraham & miranda...unfortunately IMO so are mundine, green & beyer (a decent but not extraordinary trio whose main feats come vs each other)...IMO joe, maybe kessler & quite possibly bute in future are the only ones on a par with the 4-5 MWs i mentioned (taylor,wright,sturm,abraham...miranda still a ?)...wright is a good bout for joe & will tell us much...as for your statement re: Yank attitude...definitely SOME truth to that!! altho i would say that is changing to a NORTH AMERICAN BIAS with occasional canadian cards on US tv, increasing number of mexican shows on spanish US channels & most top mexicans now based in US...

[pundit]

i wonder, maybe my argument about Winky not hitting hard enough to fight Calzaghe could be countered. Winky is incredibly accurate and brilliant at getting in & out of range. That makes up for a lot. His physical strength is also underrated - he backed up Trinidad and Taylor consistently.

Spot on.

"X would walk through Y's punches" is one of most popular but also dumbest claims in boxing.

[Autobarn]

Problem is, boxing suffers from the Yank attitude of 'if it's not delivered to my living room, it didn't happen'. 'If I can't spell his name, smeg him'. How many p4p lists was Veeraphol Sahaprom on? A guy who won a world bantam title in his 5th pro fight, lost it, won another which he defended 14 times, then lost in a controversial fight that was every bit as good as Corrales-Castillo I (same year). Cos he was in Thailand, he didn't get his dues, and he was ranked behind Rafael Marquez.

Kessler looks to have big fights. Beyer is an important fight. Does anyone think it won't be big in Denmark and Germany (where boxing is hugely popular), and does anyone think it won't have a massive bearing on the way the career of Britain's best since Lewis will go? Boxing is global. 'I'm an American, I'm taking what is mine' Lacy was unable to do just that. The US 'attempts' to showcase Kessler have been embarrassing - Showtime considering Kessler-Joppy, and why? Cos of Joppy's nationality. But this is a crime with all the good fighters around & we can't just judge s/m by standards held by Americans.

There's never been such a strong lineup at super middle that stretches beyond the top 5. Just look at the class, colour and variety in this division, Calzaghe (Wales), Kessler (Denmark), Beyer (Germany), Mundine (Oz), Lacy (States), Bute (Canada via Romania), Andrade (States), Green (Oz)

Calzaghe should fight the elite of the division. What if he fought Winky? How much credit do you get for beating a guy who can't crack an egg at 154? Winky is probably the fight that will hapen - most American fight scribes had Winky a clear winner v Taylor, which is fair enough. And I'd be excited about the fight. It would cross an international bridge & there'd be a market from it on both sides. But hey, Calzaghe has his frail hands full in his own division.

IMO usa prospect andrade is very overrated & nowhere near the MWs like sturm, abraham & miranda...unfortunately IMO so are mundine, green & beyer (a decent but not extraordinary trio whose main feats come vs each other)...IMO joe, maybe kessler & quite possibly bute in future are the only ones on a par with the 4-5 MWs i mentioned (taylor,wright,sturm,abraham...miranda still a ?)...wright is a good bout for joe & will tell us much...as for your statement re: Yank attitude...definitely SOME truth to that!! altho i would say that is changing to a NORTH AMERICAN BIAS with occasional canadian cards on US tv, increasing number of mexican shows on spanish US channels & most top mexicans now based in US...

Hope no one takes my statement the wrong way - but it's what someone actually said to me when I suggested they watch V Sahaprom-Hasegawa I, the response being not unlike what I wrote above lol. Been itching to see Andrade fight, not had the chance yet, but a one-sided win over Otis is good. Doesn't seem to be rushing in there to face Beyer.

Anyhow, I think North American 'scepticism' isn't really appropriate for the super middles (& even middles/light heavies). There have been great Americans at s/m (Toney, Jones), some very good ones (Liles, Nunn, Littles), but there have been some excellent Europeans at the weight: Graciano Rocchigiani (one of my faves), Eubank, Collins, Benn, Watson, Ottke, Calzaghe, Kessler and (yes) Beyer.

Problem with all that global mix, is that guys from different countries aren't always fighting each other. Worst case being Calzaghe-Ottke. (However, Calzaghe-Lacy and Kessler-Beyer is making up for that). But I guess if it was in America, the HBO/Showtime split can be a real big fight killer

[Autobarn]

Problem is, boxing suffers from the Yank attitude of 'if it's not delivered to my living room, it didn't happen'. 'If I can't spell his name, smeg him'. How many p4p lists was Veeraphol Sahaprom on? A guy who won a world bantam title in his 5th pro fight, lost it, won another which he defended 14 times, then lost in a controversial fight that was every bit as good as Corrales-Castillo I (same year). Cos he was in Thailand, he didn't get his dues, and he was ranked behind Rafael Marquez.

Kessler looks to have big fights. Beyer is an important fight. Does anyone think it won't be big in Denmark and Germany (where boxing is hugely popular), and does anyone think it won't have a massive bearing on the way the career of Britain's best since Lewis will go? Boxing is global. 'I'm an American, I'm taking what is mine' Lacy was unable to do just that. The US 'attempts' to showcase Kessler have been embarrassing - Showtime considering Kessler-Joppy, and why? Cos of Joppy's nationality. But this is a crime with all the good fighters around & we can't just judge s/m by standards held by Americans.

There's never been such a strong lineup at super middle that stretches beyond the top 5. Just look at the class, colour and variety in this division, Calzaghe (Wales), Kessler (Denmark), Beyer (Germany), Mundine (Oz), Lacy (States), Bute (Canada via Romania), Andrade (States), Green (Oz)

Calzaghe should fight the elite of the division. What if he fought Winky? How much credit do you get for beating a guy who can't crack an egg at 154? Winky is probably the fight that will hapen - most American fight scribes had Winky a clear winner v Taylor, which is fair enough. And I'd be excited about the fight. It would cross an international bridge & there'd be a market from it on both sides. But hey, Calzaghe has his frail hands full in his own division.

IMO usa prospect andrade is very overrated & nowhere near the MWs like sturm, abraham & miranda...unfortunately IMO so are mundine, green & beyer (a decent but not extraordinary trio whose main feats come vs each other)...IMO joe, maybe kessler & quite possibly bute in future are the only ones on a par with the 4-5 MWs i mentioned (taylor,wright,sturm,abraham...miranda still a ?)...wright is a good bout for joe & will tell us much...as for your statement re: Yank attitude...definitely SOME truth to that!! altho i would say that is changing to a NORTH AMERICAN BIAS with occasional canadian cards on US tv, increasing number of mexican shows on spanish US channels & most top mexicans now based in US...

I like Bute. This guy is going places. he has some real composure. Never seems to be rushing.

[Max Molyneux]

Kessler wants too much money for Joe yet he'll take a low amount for Beyer whos on the slide.

:

????

TeamPalle offered Beyer approx. 2.35 mill Euro (1.35 mill Euro + TV rights).Or 1.604.817 £

You misread my post.

Kessler apparently wanted a big payday to fight Calzaghe but he;s apparently getting less to fight Beyer.

[shoutout]

Problem is, boxing suffers from the Yank attitude of 'if it's not delivered to my living room, it didn't happen'. 'If I can't spell his name, smeg him'. How many p4p lists was Veeraphol Sahaprom on? A guy who won a world bantam title in his 5th pro fight, lost it, won another which he defended 14 times, then lost in a controversial fight that was every bit as good as Corrales-Castillo I (same year). Cos he was in Thailand, he didn't get his dues, and he was ranked behind Rafael Marquez.

Kessler looks to have big fights. Beyer is an important fight. Does anyone think it won't be big in Denmark and Germany (where boxing is hugely popular), and does anyone think it won't have a massive bearing on the way the career of Britain's best since Lewis will go? Boxing is global. 'I'm an American, I'm taking what is mine' Lacy was unable to do just that. The US 'attempts' to showcase Kessler have been embarrassing - Showtime considering Kessler-Joppy, and why? Cos of Joppy's nationality. But this is a crime with all the good fighters around & we can't just judge s/m by standards held by Americans.

There's never been such a strong lineup at super middle that stretches beyond the top 5. Just look at the class, colour and variety in this division, Calzaghe (Wales), Kessler (Denmark), Beyer (Germany), Mundine (Oz), Lacy (States), Bute (Canada via Romania), Andrade (States), Green (Oz)

Calzaghe should fight the elite of the division. What if he fought Winky? How much credit do you get for beating a guy who can't crack an egg at 154? Winky is probably the fight that will hapen - most American fight scribes had Winky a clear winner v Taylor, which is fair enough. And I'd be excited about the fight. It would cross an international bridge & there'd be a market from it on both sides. But hey, Calzaghe has his frail hands full in his own division.

IMO usa prospect andrade is very overrated & nowhere near the MWs like sturm, abraham & miranda...unfortunately IMO so are mundine, green & beyer (a decent but not extraordinary trio whose main feats come vs each other)...IMO joe, maybe kessler & quite possibly bute in future are the only ones on a par with the 4-5 MWs i mentioned (taylor,wright,sturm,abraham...miranda still a ?)...wright is a good bout for joe & will tell us much...as for your statement re: Yank attitude...definitely SOME truth to that!! altho i would say that is changing to a NORTH AMERICAN BIAS with occasional canadian cards on US tv, increasing number of mexican shows on spanish US channels & most top mexicans now based in US...

I like Bute. This guy is going places. he has some real composure. Never seems to be rushing.

i like bute too...we are very fortunate to have one of europe's best prospects fighting in north america & hope that will help get him on usa tv more in future!!

[Deram]

Kessler wants too much money for Joe yet he'll take a low amount for Beyer whos on the slide.

:

????

TeamPalle offered Beyer approx. 2.35 mill Euro (1.35 mill Euro + TV rights).Or 1.604.817 £

You misread my post.

Kessler apparently wanted a big payday to fight Calzaghe but he;s apparently getting less to fight Beyer.

Joe wants to make a lot of money himself if he is to fight Kessler (offering Kessler only 50.000$) but was willing to forfit alot of earning to instead get the limited Lacy into the ring (paying Lacy 1.5 mill).

In the long run Kessler would have been a much better name to get on the CV than Lacy was. In 10 years who do you think will be looked upon as the better SMW - Kessler or Lacy?

[Autobarn]

????

TeamPalle offered Beyer approx. 2.35 mill Euro (1.35 mill Euro + TV rights).Or 1.604.817 £

You misread my post.

Kessler apparently wanted a big payday to fight Calzaghe but he;s apparently getting less to fight Beyer.

Joe wants to make a lot of money himself if he is to fight Kessler (offering Kessler only 50.000$) but was willing to forfit alot of earning to instead get the limited Lacy into the ring (paying Lacy 1.5 mill).

In the long run Kessler would have been a much better name to get on the CV than Lacy was. In 10 years who do you think will be looked upon as the better SMW - Kessler or Lacy?

why, Lacy of course. Don't you remember, he's "Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield in one"

[yiddo14]

Joe will convince himself that Peter Manfredo jnr is the key to immortality......

Caqlzaghe is a MASSIVE waste of talent.

Why he did'nt go to America and try to claim a REAL belt years ago I don't know.
He would be retired by now,counting his millions,with his legacy and HOF place guarenteed.

Instead,he is planning a 'homecoming' fight in Cardiif.(was'nt his last fight in Manchester???hardly the other side of the world is it?)

Look for such great names as Green,Manfredo jnr or even Veit(again)to cement his legacy as Britains greatest fighter(HA HA HA HA HA)

[Max Molyneux]

Joe will convince himself that Peter Manfredo jnr is the key to immortality......

Caqlzaghe is a MASSIVE waste of talent.

Why he did'nt go to America and try to claim a REAL belt years ago I don't know.
He would be retired by now,counting his millions,with his legacy and HOF place guarenteed.

Instead,he is planning a 'homecoming' fight in Cardiif.(was'nt his last fight in Manchester???hardly the other side of the world is it?)

Look for such great names as Green,Manfredo jnr or even Veit(again)to cement his legacy as Britains greatest fighter(HA HA HA HA HA)

fornicate America, there contradicting bastards when some say or the experts think a non yank needs to go there. The Opp matters more than where you go.

He's already made millions though.

He has another injury and then most you guys start claiming the bullshit again that he's going to duck again like in the past.

Least Warren wasn't trying to get a joke name before he pulled out so they are showing they want the names.

Whats a real belt?