Larry Holmes laughs off suggestions Anthony Joshua would’ve beaten him

[Ruthless-RKO]

In a recent social media debate it was decided that Anthony Joshua would’ve beaten Larry Holmes if both men faced one another when they were in their prime.

When asked by proboxing-fans.com how he would fare against the champions of today, Holmes initially indicated he would be at a disadvantage, “Well, I’m 70 years old, so…” One of the greatest jabs in the sport may have deteriorated, but his sense of humour hasn’t.

“Yeah, well this isn’t my time, you wouldn’t hear of these guys.

“We’d beat these guys up, we’d beat them up. They don’t have the abilities that we have, but they would’ve given us a pretty good fight. But, when you got guys like Kenny Norton, Joe Frazier, Muhammad Ali, Ron Lyle, Larry Holmes, we got a lot of good fighters out there when I was fighting.”

Holmes went on further, outside of the Heavyweight division and indicated even today’s pound-for-pound stars Saul ‘Canelo’ Alvarez and Terence Crawford would also have stood “no chance” in his era.

“They couldn’t stand a chance when I was fighting. When I was fighting, Sugar Ray Leonard was out there, Marvin Hagler was out there, [it’s] no contest.”

Larry Holmes also revealed to proboxing-fans.com what it was like to firstly learn from, ’The Greatest’, Muhammad Ali and then how it felt to beat him too.

“Yeah, well you want to learn how to fight, you got to start with the best. So I asked Ali to give me a job as his sparring partner, and he said to me, ‘Can you take it?’ I said, ‘Yeah, I can take it.’

“So he gave me a job to test me out for a couple of weeks, and then I was okay for him.

“And that was it, and then next thing you know, I had a job and same thing with Joe Frazier. The word was out that I was a good boxer, and I worked with Ali and then Joe Frazier.

“My intention was not to be a good sparring partner. My intention was to make some money, and box with the best fighters, and learn from them as I can. And that’s what I did.”

The lessons learnt years before were to be taught once more. This time it was the student delivering the schooling.

Ali came out of retirement in the hope he would become the first-ever four-time Heavyweight champion on October 2, 1980.

It all went to plan… for Holmes. Dominating proceedings from the first bell, fans endured a painful viewing of ‘The Greatest of All Time,’ as he was dismantled before, finally, Angelo Dundee, trainer to Ali, put an end to the display.

“It felt good boxing Ali because I knew what he could do. I knew because I sparred with him, I knew what he could do.

“And his jab was like my jab, his jab was fast, my jab was a little bit faster.

“I didn’t take punches, that would be him that took the punches.

“And I was doing that while I was training with him, but when I got in the fight, I had to do the same thing.

“You learn how to jab, you learn how to duck punches, and learn just watching them. Ali used to do a rope-a-dope. I learned how not to do that, because I didn’t want to stay up on the ropes to get hit.

“But I just learned everything I can learn from Muhammad Ali, I stayed at his camp. I ate there, he took care of me and that was okay.”

[Enlightened-One]

I read this article earlier this morning, and it was pretty interesting.

I fully understand the reason why Holmes feels he’d beat Anthony Joshua in his prime. He’s supposed to think that way. He is a legendary competitor where defeat wasn’t considered an opinion during his heyday.

And he’s right, many of the old-timers were better schooled than today’s big men,

However, the superior size and athleticism of fighters like AJ and Tyson Fury would have been massive obstacles to overcome.

Let’s not forget that the 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs, which is basically the same as modern-day cruiserweights (based on rehydrated ring-weights).

Larry Holmes was also decked numerous times throughout the course of his career, being floored by the likes of Tyson, Shavers, Butterbean, Snipes, Isaac etc. He was hurt several times as well.

Honestly, I just don’t know.

For sure, Holmes is a great fighter, but having to overcome a considerable size handicap would be a massive issue for him.

Holmes would stand a chance of beating AJ, but I don’t think he’d beat Fury – the Brit is just far too big and has moderately comparable skill levels and athleticism.

[Flump]

Fury would be difficult for anyone because of his long levers and good movement, but I don't see Joshua beating Holmes.

Larry is just a different level, and he's also taller, quicker and with a longer reach than Andy Ruiz jr who didn't have much trouble finding AJ's chin. I don't think it was Ruiz's blubber that knocked Joshua out, it was his timing, which Holmes had in abundance.

And with regards to knockdowns, Joshua has been down 5 times in 23 fights. You wouldn't bet your house on his chin would you. And one more comparison, Holmes MSG headlining debut had him in what turned out to be a very tough fight with a huge underdog who was better than anyone thought (Weaver). Holmes rallied and stopped him. In AJ's case, he got bounced off the floor 4 times and quit.

I like AJ in spite of pulling him apart here, but he isn't big enough to make the disparity in levels count, IMO.

[nobleart1978]

Holmes would beat Joshua.
Larry was a good mover and had a great jab. Not to mention superb recuperitive instinct.

For me, Holmes by RSF (round 11)

[Jaywheel]

Holmes being decked by Butterbean. Great point.

[ldlamb]

Today’s guys are physically bigger and have better nutritional training.....previous generations were higher skilled (on average) and fought more often Sharpening those skills....it’s a debate we will never know the answer to.

I can’t speak for other countries....but in the US, the best young athletes Growing up in the 40s, 50s, 60s often went into boxing, over other sports....That is certainly not the case now.

There are a lot of potential good heavyweights playing middle linebacker and power forward....and a lot of good potential middleweights playing wide receiver or soccer, most likely.

[oogiebe]

I knew this would rekindle the 'size matters' debate.

Back to the thread. Holmes was an all time great and would beat AJ.

[oogiebe]

Today’s guys are physically bigger and have better nutritional training.....previous generations were higher skilled (on average) and fought more often Sharpening those skills....it’s a debate we will never know the answer to.

I can’t speak for other countries....but in the US, the best young athletes Growing up in the 40s, 50s, 60s often went into boxing, over other sports....That is certainly not the case now.

There are a lot of potential good heavyweights playing middle linebacker and power forward....and a lot of good potential middleweights playing wide receiver or soccer, most likely.

Yup. and I'm sure someone will mock this. But you are absolutely correct sir.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Today’s guys are physically bigger and have better nutritional training.....previous generations were higher skilled (on average) and fought more often Sharpening those skills....it’s a debate we will never know the answer to.

I can’t speak for other countries....but in the US, the best young athletes Growing up in the 40s, 50s, 60s often went into boxing, over other sports....That is certainly not the case now.

There are a lot of potential good heavyweights playing middle linebacker and power forward....and a lot of good potential middleweights playing wide receiver or soccer, most likely.

Yup. and I'm sure someone will mock this. But you are absolutely correct sir.

Very true.

[margaret thatcher]

lol, so it's even stretched to soccer now , gonna hear soon that women's softball is taking away some serious yank talents too, speaking of good laughs

the country with by far the most hws still has by far the most excuses about not having enough of them , maybe these dudes are actually just too busy painting their nails or something

[Duran1970]

Holmes would stop AJ inside 7 rounds and beats Fury no problem as well..and nails it by saying Canelo etc could never hang with Hagler or Ray.

[bobcatbox]

Holmes would handle Joshua, especially prime Holmes. I don’t agree with him that Alvarez couldn’t have competed in the 70s-80s. Canelo could box with any middleweight of any era.

[lazboy]

Holmes would handle Joshua, especially prime Holmes. I don’t agree with him that Alvarez couldn’t have competed in the 70s-80s. Canelo could box with any middleweight of any era.

More or less I share these thoughts.

[bobcatbox]

Holmes would handle Joshua, especially prime Holmes. I don’t agree with him that Alvarez couldn’t have competed in the 70s-80s. Canelo could box with any middleweight of any era.

More or less I share these thoughts.

I’d be willing to accept that Leonard probably beats him, but he’s toe-to-toe with Hagler and takes 2/3 in my opinion. He definitely beats Duran at 160. I don’t know about Hearns. He’s the one I’m least confident on.

[oogiebe]

lol, so it's even stretched to soccer now , gonna hear soon that women's softball is taking away some serious yank talents too, speaking of good laughs

the country with by far the most hws still has by far the most excuses about not having enough of them , maybe these dudes are actually just too busy painting their nails or something

Sometimes you don't sound very smart. Just smart "alechy."

[lazboy]

Holmes would handle Joshua, especially prime Holmes. I don’t agree with him that Alvarez couldn’t have competed in the 70s-80s. Canelo could box with any middleweight of any era.

More or less I share these thoughts.

I’d be willing to accept that Leonard probably beats him, but he’s toe-to-toe with Hagler and takes 2/3 in my opinion. He definitely beats Duran at 160. I don’t know about Hearns. He’s the one I’m least confident on.

I agree with your comments that he could box with any middleweight of any era, although my understanding of eras pre 1980 is limited. I understood your comment to mean, he could be competitive, at the least. As oppose to what Larry Holmes had said.

I have a thing for Hagler and Leonard (a non-sexual thing lol) and I don't think either would have lost to him, although I do see a competitive fight. I'm really not sure about Duran either, other than it would be competitive. Duran could make things really ugly and really put Canelo to work. If I really had to chose, I would pick all four of the fab four/four kings to beat Canelo at this stage. I've been very impressed with Canelo lately but I need to see more from him. I'd like him to take on more fighters in their prime rather than these passing of the torch/old guard types fights.

[DrDuke]

Holmes was better than Joshua. His boxing IQ, movement and jab were superior. He also was better in the exchanges and could take a punch better. I had Joshua losing on points to Klitschko and Povetkin before stoppages. In the exchanges against Ruiz Joshua was crushed. Joshua showed up improved in the Ruiz rematch, but Ruiz seemed too unmotivated. Gotta see more Joshua for being more sure, but with what he has shown up to the date, he isn't of the Holmes' level.

[Enlightened-One]

To be honest, it seems a bit silly to compare the legacy of a Hall-of-Famer, who typically faced small cruiserweights during his physical prime and also enjoyed a career spanning 29½ years, to someone like AJ who still has a very long journey ahead of him.

Larry Holmes won his first world title after he’d been competing as a pro for almost 5½ years (28 bouts), coupled with being Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali's sparring partner, with Joshua achieving the same feat within 2½ years (16 bouts).

And by comparing the dates of his pro debut to his most recent outing, Anthony Joshua’s career currently only spans six years and two months.

I don’t feel that any of the names on Larry Holmes’ resume, after 24 bouts, is particularly impressive, with the same applying if we compared both of their careers based on the equivalent ages.

By the time Larry Holmes became the same age as AJ is right now, he still had forty fights and 22½ years of his career ahead of him.

So any comparison of the legacies of Holmes and Joshua seems a tad unfair to me.

Up until the Ruiz Jr. defeat, AJ had continuously shown signs of improvement. He even drastically adapted his fighting style to avenge that loss. So whose to say how good Anthony Joshua could eventually become?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a die-hard fan of AJ’s, because I feel that Tyson Fury is a country mile ahead of him in terms of talent and I was also happy to see him lose against Ruiz Jr., but I do appreciate how quickly Joshua’s career has progressed in such a short timeframe.

He deserves kudos for that.

[DrDuke]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a die-hard fan of AJ’s, because I feel that Tyson Fury is a country mile ahead of him in terms of talent and I was also happy to see him lose against Ruiz Jr., but I do appreciate how quickly Joshua’s career has progressed in such a short timeframe.

He deserves kudos for that.

I'm not trying to desecrate Joshua's achievements, but he was promoted too good all the way. Since he was awarded a hometown decision in the Olympic final and got signed by Eddie, he was efficiently lead to the championship bout. No other current top boxer had such good promotion.

[Enlightened-One]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a die-hard fan of AJ’s, because I feel that Tyson Fury is a country mile ahead of him in terms of talent and I was also happy to see him lose against Ruiz Jr., but I do appreciate how quickly Joshua’s career has progressed in such a short timeframe.

He deserves kudos for that.

I'm not trying to desecrate Joshua's achievements, but he was promoted too good all the way. Since he was awarded a hometown decision in the Olympic final and got signed by Eddie, he was efficiently lead to the championship bout. No other current top boxer had such good promotion.

I agree, AJ benefited from being promoted excellently. He received a lot of hype and praise, during a time when he was only a novice wearing an alphabet title.

The thing is though... he's the real deal. If Fury hadn't beat Wilder and Klitschko, he'd have the best resume out there.

And you can't accomplish that sort feat without fighting the fights. And let's face it, barring one bump in the road, he's shown continual signs of improvement throughout his career.

[DrDuke]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a die-hard fan of AJ’s, because I feel that Tyson Fury is a country mile ahead of him in terms of talent and I was also happy to see him lose against Ruiz Jr., but I do appreciate how quickly Joshua’s career has progressed in such a short timeframe.

He deserves kudos for that.

I'm not trying to desecrate Joshua's achievements, but he was promoted too good all the way. Since he was awarded a hometown decision in the Olympic final and got signed by Eddie, he was efficiently lead to the championship bout. No other current top boxer had such good promotion.

I agree, AJ benefited from being promoted excellently. He received a lot of hype and praise, during a time when he was only a novice wearing an alphabet title.

The thing is though... he's the real deal. If Fury hadn't beat Wilder and Klitschko, he'd have the best resume out there.

And you can't accomplish that sort feat without fighting the fights. And let's face it, barring one bump in the road, he's shown continual signs of improvement throughout his career.

Yes, Joshua has been showing improvements. I also gave a hint to that above. His resume is very good. Indeed, without the Wilder win Fury's resume wouldn't have been superior. And Joshua would have been still favored over Fury by many. However, I've always been telling, that Fury is better, since the moment I've appeared on this forum, when Joshua was a unified champion, while Fury was a fat man in a hiatus of his career.

[Enlightened-One]

I'm not trying to desecrate Joshua's achievements, but he was promoted too good all the way. Since he was awarded a hometown decision in the Olympic final and got signed by Eddie, he was efficiently lead to the championship bout. No other current top boxer had such good promotion.

I agree, AJ benefited from being promoted excellently. He received a lot of hype and praise, during a time when he was only a novice wearing an alphabet title.

The thing is though... he's the real deal. If Fury hadn't beat Wilder and Klitschko, he'd have the best resume out there.

And you can't accomplish that sort feat without fighting the fights. And let's face it, barring one bump in the road, he's shown continual signs of improvement throughout his career.

Yes, Joshua has been showing improvements. I also gave a hint to that above. His resume is very good. Indeed, without the Wilder win Fury's resume wouldn't have been superior. And Joshua would have been still favored over Fury by many. However, I've always been telling, that Fury is better, since the moment I've appeared on this forum, when Joshua was a unified champion, while Fury was a fat man in a hiatus of his career.

I've always been big on Fury. He doesn't physically look the part, but he is the part. It's just a shame he has a tendency of being consistently inconsistent, due to fighting at a level according to the type of threat he perceives he's facing.

So 'The Gypsy King' will look subpar and feather-fisted against a journeyman or fringe contender, but he's a completely different fighter when he faces one of the top-dogs of the division.

[bigjack]

Holmes being decked by Butterbean. Great point.

not a clean knockdown and Holmes was ancient

[bigjack]

I read this article earlier this morning, and it was pretty interesting.

I fully understand the reason why Holmes feels he’d beat Anthony Joshua in his prime. He’s supposed to think that way. He is a legendary competitor where defeat wasn’t considered an opinion during his heyday.

And he’s right, many of the old-timers were better schooled than today’s big men,

However, the superior size and athleticism of fighters like AJ and Tyson Fury would have been massive obstacles to overcome.

Let’s not forget that the 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs, which is basically the same as modern-day cruiserweights (based on rehydrated ring-weights).

Larry Holmes was also decked numerous times throughout the course of his career, being floored by the likes of Tyson, Shavers, Butterbean, Snipes, Isaac etc. He was hurt several times as well.

Honestly, I just don’t know.

For sure, Holmes is a great fighter, but having to overcome a considerable size handicap would be a massive issue for him.

Holmes would stand a chance of beating AJ, but I don’t think he’d beat Fury – the Brit is just far too big and has moderately comparable skill levels and athleticism.

And only a rampaging,peak Tyson kept him down though.

[Tony1244]

Holmes being decked by Butterbean. Great point.

If age and time didn't exist, it would be.