Post Your Scorecards

[Seamus]

The manager in question was Gerry Lenza. Real nice guy, who managed Craig Bodzianowski, Georgie Go Go Navarro and a few others. Pretty sure I heard a fight commentator or two over the years say the same exact thing, 10-7 is as low as it goes. I've also heard guys say things like "if you score more than 2 rounds even you shouldn't be scoring. WRONG !

[scartissue]

Watched a Lindell Holmes double-feature today. Not going to say you guys have to see these. Nothing really eventful.

Lindell Holmes v Sugarboy Malinga

Round 1: 10-9 Holmes
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Holmes
Round 4: 10-9 Malinga
Round 5: 10-9 Holmes
Round 6: 10-9 Holmes
Round 7: 10-9 Holmes
Round 8: 10-9 Holmes
Round 9: 10-9 Holmes
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Holmes
Round 12: 10-9 Holmes

Total: 119-111 Holmes (actual scores: 116-112, 116-112 and 117-113 all for Holmes)

I just felt Malinga fought the wrong fight fighting an inside fight with a noted banger instead of boxing.

Chris Eubank v Lindell Holmes

Round 1: 10-9 Holmes
Round 2: 10-9 Holmes
Round 3: 10-9 Eubank
Round 4: 10-9 Eubank
Round 5: 10-9 Eubank
Round 6: 10-9 Holmes
Round 7: 10-9 Eubank
Round 8: 10-9 Eubank
Round 9: 10-9 Eubank
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Eubank
Round 12: 10-9 Eubank

Total: 117-112 Eubank (actual scores: 120-109, 116-114 and 117-112 all for Eubank)

Holmes was creaking by this time at almost 36. He just kept getting slower and slower as the fight wore on. Still, he tagged Eubank a few times just to let him know he was there. Like I said earlier, both these fights are not on a 'must see' list.

[Counter-puncher]

Guty Espadas v Betulio Gonzalez

Round 1: 10-9 Espadas
Round 2: 10-9 Espadas
Round 3: 10-9 Espadas
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Espadas
Round 7: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 8: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 9: 10-9 Espadas
Round 10: 10-9 Espadas
Round 11: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 12: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 13: 10-10 Even
Round 14: 10-9 Gonzalez
Round 15: 10-9 Espadas

Total: 145-143 Espadas (actual scores: 144-142 and 148-144 both for Gonzalez and a 146-146 card for a majority win for Gonzalez)

First of all, although an excellent fight, I wish the image was a bit sharper. High-def it's not. Still, I enjoyed the fight. What frustrated me - as a Betulio Gonzalez fan - is why Gonzalez fought Espadas' fight when he had reach and excellent boxing ability. To go inside with such a hard, short puncher was ridiculous. It made for a very good fight, but made his work so difficult. I had heard at the time the decision was controversial and now seeing it I can see why. Close fight.

it seems we have fairly similar scores, mate

i only saw the first couple of rounds, and my eyes nearly popped out, mate

Wow, I hope I don't oversell this but I thought it was a really good fight

Gonzalez Espadas
9 10
9 10
9 10
9 10
10 9
I0 9
9 10
10 9
9 10
9 10
10 9
10 9
10 9
10 9
9 10

142-144 Espadas

I can't call it a robbery although the one judge giving it 148-144 Gonzalez is a little way out IMO, but there was a lot of close quarters action difficult to score, and four or five close rounds, plus I'm not usually unequivocal in scoring anyway.

I had a look at Betulios career, what an incredible run he had, losing titles and winning them back and still remaining competitive enough to get a SD loss against Laciar in the 80s a full decade after his first world title bouts. Gonzalez must have been an iron man to manage to stay at flyweight so long, and in this fight he shows his toughness to come through some serious fire.

Reminds me of little red vs Ayala somewhat, as the taller stiff guy gets blasted in two fisted attacks but his strength allows him to come on later. Still, it was Espadas who had the other guy hurt in the brilliant last round, as stirring a final round as you will see and astonishing in the context of the 15 round attritional war that preceded it
[/quote

[scartissue]

Lindell Holmes v Darrin Van Horn

Van Horn was so strong and unintimidated throughout the contest. It didn't seem like Holmes was doing too bad coming off great efforts in the previous few rounds. But the body shot was like you simply pulled the plug from him. Wouldn't have seen it coming had I not already knew the result.

Round 1: 10-9 Holmes
Round 2: 10-9 Holmes
Round 3: 10-9 Holmes
Round 4: 10-9 Van Horn
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Van Horn
Round 7: 10-9 Holmes
Round 8: 10-9 Holmes
Round 9: 10-9 Holmes
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: Van Horn stops Holmes

Total (through 10 completed rounds): 98-94 Holmes (actual scores: 96-94 twice for Holmes and 96-94 Van Horn)

[scartissue]

Watched a terrific lightweight encounter from the stacked 135 lb. division of the early 80s. Rockin Robin Blake v Harry Arroyo. Scored on NJ's rounds basis.

Round 1: Arroyo
Round 2: Arroyo
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Arroyo
Round 5: Arroyo
Round 6: Arroyo
Round 7: Blake
Round 8: Blake
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Blake

Total: 5-3-2 Arroyo (actual scores: 6-3-1 twice and 5-4-1 all for Arroyo)

Arroyo just picked off Blake in the first half of the fight with counters and those lead rights of his were spot-on, before Blake turned it on in the second half. It's good to see all the judges were watching the same fight and not some of the ludicrous decisions we see today.

[Seamus]

Maurice Blocker vs Marlon Starling

R1. MS 10-9
R2. MS 10-9
R3. MB 10-9
R4. MB 10-9
R5. MS 10-9
R6. Even 10-10
R7. MS 10-9
R8. MB 10-9
R9. MS 10-9
R10.Even 10-10
R11. MB 10-9
R12. MB 10-9

115-115 A Draw

Marlon Starling's last fight and he ended up with a badly cut left eye and didn't use his peek a boo defense enough. If not for the cut he probably takes the decision.

[Nile4000]

Watched an uneventful fight recently, basically because it was there and I hadn't seen it. It was the 1980 Clyde Gray v Roger 'The Dodger' Leonard fight fought on the undercard of the first Leonard-Duran fight. I knew Gray lost but I was a fan of Gray's back in the day and needed to see what he had lost. He was an old 33 with a ton of scartissue and this was his second to last fight. And every network was pushing anyone called Leonard. Scored on Canada's 5 point system.

Round 1: 5-5 Even
Round 2: 5-4 Leonard
Round 3: 5-4 Leonard
Round 4: 5-4 Leonard
Round 5: 5-5 Even
Round 6: 5-4 Gray
Round 7: 5-4 Leonard
Round 8: 5-4 Leonard
Round 9: 5-4 Leonard
Round 10: 5-4 Gray

Total: 48-44 Leonard (actual scores: 47-45 Gray, 48-45 Leonard and 48-46 Leonard for a split win for Leonard)

Again, this is a fight to miss. Nothing eventful really took place. I just needed to see Gray in action again. I will say though that if this was the 1974 version of Clyde Gray, he would have gone through Roger the Dodger like a knife through butter.

I was just getting ready to post this fight.Here is how I saw it.

1) Leonard 5-4
2)Leonard 5-4
3)Leonard 5-4
4)Leonard 5-4
5)Leonard 5-4
6)Leonard 5-4
7)Leonard 5-4
8)Leonard 5-4
9)Leonard 5-4
10)Leonard 5-4

At best, Gray may have won 2 rounds tops, and that's being generous. He had his moments, not enough to affect the fight. It also showed me with the right training and mentality, Roger Leonard could've been a world champion. He had the skills to beat Ayub Kalule and Maurice Hope.

[Nile4000]

Also saw Big John Tate vs Trevor Berbick. A totally a pretty good fight, but showed John took the fight too soon.

1) Berbick 5-4
2)Berbick 5-4
3)Tate 5-4
4) Tate 5-4
5) Tate 5-4
6)Berbick 5-4
7) Even 5-5
8) Berbick 5-4

Berbick 37-36. Shame Tate could not have taken this fight in September, probably a different result.

[Bujia]

Ricardo Lopez vs Rosendo Alvarez I

Been a while since I watched it. Still had Alvarez winning about the same as I recall. 67-65, even with the bogus point deduction in the 7th. Looked like he was really starting to take over in that round, too. No doubt the reason Lopez's handlers stopped it then.

[scartissue]

Here is an old MSG classic today. Henry Hank v Johnny Persol. Wasn't nail-biter stuff but it was a good fight. Scored on the NY rounds basis.

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Hank
Round 3: Persol
Round 4: Persol
Round 5: Persol
Round 6: Even
Round 7: Hank
Round 8: Persol
Round 9: Persol
Round 10: Persol

Total: 6-2-2 Persol (actual scores: 5-5 Draw twice and a 6-4 for Hank)

Maybe I was too generous to Persol but I thought much more highly of his jab and boxing ability than I did of Hank's hands-at-his-sides style of one shot at a time. And I liked Persol's willing to mix it when needed. Of course, this was an older Hank who had outgrown middle, which was evident in his attack. He was bigger and bulkier than the guy mixing it with Benton, Mims, Tiger and Giardello. He was faster and sharper at 160. But still, I do enjoy these old fights.

[scartissue]

Erik Morales v Manny Pacquiao I

I saw some activity on this fight recently and re-watched it. I saw it when it was televised live, but now pen to paper.

Round 1: 10-9 Pac
Round 2: 10-9 Morales
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Morales
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Pac
Round 7: 10-9 Morales
Round 8: 10-9 Morales
Round 9: 10-9 Pac
Round 10: 10-9 Morales
Round 11: 10-9 Morales
Round 12: 10-9 Pac

Total: 116-114 Morales (actual scores: 115-113 X 3 for Morales)

Terrific fight punctuated by a terrific rounds 11 and 12. Just left you wanting more, but they left nothing on the table. Two great warriors.

[scartissue]

Still on an Erik Morales kick, I checked out his bout at lightweight with David Diaz. I thought it was a good, close fight. Here is how I had it. BTW, this fight is a good test on one's scoring views.

Round 1: 10-8 Morales (scores a knockdown)
Round 2: 10-9 Diaz
Round 3: 10-9 Morales
Round 4: 10-9 Morales
Round 5: 10-9 Morales
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Diaz
Round 8: 10-9 Diaz
Round 9: 10-9 Morales
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-10 Even
Round 12: 10-9 Diaz

Total: 116-114 Morales (actual scores: 114-113, 115-112 and 115-113 all for Diaz)

Again, a good close fight, IMO, as one can see by my 3 even rounds. Morales was outstanding when he could keep the fight on the outside, but when Diaz tore inside he was clearly the boss, no matter how rough he was. A good fight, which I felt Morales won, albeit, closely.

[scartissue]

I checked out a couple more Juan Manuel Marquez bouts from a bit earlier in his career

Juan Manuel Marquez v Enrique Jupiter

I remember Jupiter from when he got a bit of a write-up in Ring mag as an upcoming hot prospect. He didn't do that bad in his career but lost his real big ones. He was actually coming off a 12 round loss for the world title against Vuyani Bungu when he fought Marquez. No need to run a card here, JMM won every round and dropped Jupiter in the 7th before an 8th round stoppage for a 60-53 score on my card. But the fight was competitive, which is more than I can say for the next match.

Juan Manuel Marquez v Derrick Gainer

How Gainer made it as far as he did I will never know...wait, I do know. Gainer was best friends with Roy Jones. Indeed, Jones even used to supplement Gainer's purses. If a promoter was only offering Gainer $20K, Jones would jump in with an additional amount of money to give his best friend a good purse. I also remember Jones always hyping up his friend on camera and always referring to him by his nickname 'Smoke' Gainer. A more misleading name you will never hear. I know I saw him fight before this encounter but obviously it was unmemorable because I just don't remember. And this fight was no different. It was stopped in the 7th due to an accidental headbutt that caused a cut to Gainer and it went to the technical scorecards. Again, no need to run a card, I had JMM winning every round for a 70-63 score (in Michigan or for whatever title they were fighting for, they scored the partial round as well that it was stopped in). Now, for one, Gainer really caused the butt when he lunged in but I was really amazed at the doctor who meekly asks Gainer, "Do you want to continue?" WTF! Either its bad enough to stop it or it isn't. You don't ask the combatant if he wants to continue. And Gainer, who looked like he was looking for a way out to begin with, with his constant complaints of low blows, of course said, no! If a fighter says no, it should be a retirement not a tech. decision. Somewhere after this fight I heard Jones and he had a falling out, which of course meant, no more big purses. Bad move, "Smoke!"

[scartissue]

I've been checking out a number of Frank Fletcher fights that are out there. A real nostalgia kick, as I recall - I think - in 81 or 82 he was never off the TV. He had a fast burn out rate but man, was he ever in a ton of barn-burners. Anyways, here is Frank 'The Animal' Fletcher v Clint Jackson and you'll rarely see a better 12 rounder. NJ rules on a rounds basis.

Round 1: FF
Round 2: FF
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Jackson
Round 5: FF
Round 6: FF
Round 7: Jackson
Round 8: FF
Round 9: FF
Round 10: Even
Round 11: Jackson
Round 12: FF

Total: 7-3-2 Fletcher (actual scores: 8-3-1, 7-4-1 and 7-5 all for Fletcher)

Just check it out. Man, did they go at it.

[Nile4000]

Howard Davis jr. Vs Vilomar Fernandez

Not really the robbery some say, but a good competitive fight, with a careless mistake which got Davis jr. floored early:

1) Davis 10-9
2)Fernandez 10-8
3)Fernandez 10-9
4)Fernandez 10-9
5)Davis 10-9
6)Fernandez 10-9
7)Davis 10-9
8)Davis 10-9
9)Davis 10-9
10)Davis 10-9
11)Davis 10-9
12)Davis 10-9

Davis 115-112. Fernandez hit with the stronger shots, but he was missing a lot due to Davis' defense. Davis hit more frequently and if he fought the rest of his career like he did in the 8th round, he would have been one of the greatest.

[margaret thatcher]

Marquez-Gainer is one of the sh!ttiest, steaming nutty turds of a fight I've seen, to put it politely. Gainer actually was a decent fighter, but he totally shat his undies there.

Davis had a solid career, there is too much of a unsuccess story tone used on him. Though for an American Olympic champ I guess not winning a world title is like a black mark on your career or something. Even just winning one of the belts vs some random cannon fodder would probably change the narrative big on him, even if it added no more real substance

[Nile4000]

Like KO said years ago, should have fought Billy Costello or Gene Hatcher. Howard needed to get rid of his Dad as his trainer.

[scartissue]

Continuing my Frank Fletcher fixation, here is his bout with Wilford Scypion. NJ rules on a rounds basis.

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Scypion
Round 3: Fletcher
Round 4: Scypion
Round 5: Fletcher
Round 6: Scypion
Round 7: Scypion
Round 8: Scypion
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Even
Round 11: Scypion
Round 12: Fletcher

Total: 6-3-3 Scypion (actual scores: 6-5-1, 7-4-1 and 8-3-1 all for Scypion)

Those last 4 rounds really became clinch/maul fests, most instigated by Scypion. But he was fighting a smart fight. Next up I gotta check out Fletcher's fight with Tony Braxton. BTW, does anyone know what happened to Fletcher? Didn't he end up back in the joint?

[scartissue]

Completing my Frank Fletcher fixation today with his 12 round bout for the USBA title against Tony Braxton. It wasn't Fletcher-Clint Jackson type of war, but it was still amazing watching the pure heart of Fletcher. NJ rules on a rounds basis.

Round 1: Fletcher
Round 2: Fletcher
Round 3: Fletcher
Round 4: Fletcher
Round 5: Fletcher
Round 6: Braxton
Round 7: Fletcher
Round 8: Fletcher
Round 9: Braxton
Round 10: Even
Round 11: Fletcher
Round 12: Fletcher

Total: 9-2-1 Fletcher (actual scores: 8-4, 6-5-1 and 9-3 all for Fletcher)

Braxton simply didn't have the kind of firepower to hold off Fletcher. He seemed to have some success when laying in wait with a lead right on the southpaw Fletcher, but not enough to turn the tide.

[scartissue]

Guys, I watched a fight that I missed back in the day, but knew it would be a tough fight. The 1980 Sean O'Grady v Gonzalo Montellano 12 rounder. I knew it would have been tough because I had been keeping up with west coast results and had heard some really good things on Montellano. So watching this didn't change things. Guys, treat yourselves today and believe me, I felt it was very close.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Montellano
Round 3: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 4: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 5: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 6: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 7: 10-9 Montellano
Round 8: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 9: 10-9 Montellano
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-10 Even
Round 12: 10-9 Montellano

Total: 116-115 O'Grady (actual scores: 118-118 a draw and 117-115, 116-115 both for O'Grady for a majority decision win)

I think the Omaha officials were quite impartial in this one. None of the crazy decisions you see today, they all had it close. This was down to the wire and I would have been happier to see it scored a draw, it was that tight. Montellano was a sharp as a razor combination puncher, but I gave O'Grady the edge on harder punching. But a terrific fight and I can't say enough about it. Again, treat yourselves to this one. It's a real sleeper

[scartissue]

I recently watched the first fight between Harold Brazier and Kevin Pompey for a USBA welterweight title over 12 rounds. Oh, man, 12 rounds of the most fast-paced clean-punching you will ever see. So many tissue-paper thin rounds. One could have easily had more than half the fight in even rounds. A scoring nightmare.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Brazier
Round 3: 10-9 Pompey
Round 4: 10-9 Brazier
Round 5: 10-9 Pompey
Round 6: 10-9 Brazier
Round 7: 10-9 Pompey
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Brazier
Round 11: 10-9 Brazier
Round 12: 10-9 Brazier

Total: 117-114 Brazier (actual scores: 115-113 Brazier and 116-113, 115-113 both for Pompey for a split win)

Despite my score I thought this fight was as good a 12 round Draw as I have seen. Again, tissue paper difference on each round.

[scartissue]

Has anyone here ever checked out the Pipino Cuevas v Roger Stafford bout? I remember well reading about it back when it occurred and was quite stunned at the result. However, this is clearly not the same machine that was pre-Hearns. Anyways, here we go.

Round 1: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 2: 10-8 Stafford (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 4: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 5: 10-9 Stafford
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Stafford
Round 8: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 9: 10-9 Stafford
Round 10: 10-8 Stafford

Total: 96-93 Stafford (actual scores 97-91, and 2 scores of 96-93 all for Stafford)

I have a rather conservative way of scoring fights, but I did feel the 10th round was a 10-8 for Stafford. He really battered Pipino for most of the round. I don't know how the announcers scored the fight, but it sure sounded like they gave Stafford almost every round. I thought Cuevas had his moments, but his best days were clearly behind him.

[scartissue]

I looked at the history on this thread and there doesn't look like anyone has checked this out. For whatever reason, here is Hasim Rahman v David Tua II

Round 1: 10-9 Rahman
Round 2: 10-9 Rahman
Round 3: 10-9 Rahman
Round 4: 10-9 Rahman
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Tua
Round 7: 10-9 Tua
Round 8: 10-9 Tua
Round 9: 10-9 Rahman
Round 10: 10-9 Rahman
Round 11: 10-9 Tua
Round 12: 10-9 Tua (KD scored by Rahman was after the bell and not counted)

Total: 115-114 Rahman (actual scores: 116-112 Tua, 116-112 Rahman and 114-114 Draw for a Draw decision)

I had Rahman barely scraping home. Tua simply didn't do enough to stem the tide of Rahman's jab, and while he was sleeping, Rahman made off with the first 4 rounds. The utmost drama was the waning seconds of the 12th when the bell rang ending the 12th and they continued on resulting in Rahman dropping Tua, which was not counted since it was after the bell. Very close fight.

[DrDuke]

Total: 115-114 Rahman (actual scores: 116-112 Tua, 116-112 Rahman and 114-114 Draw for a Draw decision)

I also remember it as the Rahman's fight, but probably I scored it wider.

[margaret thatcher]

Rahman got screwed both fights, especially the first one where he was boxing Tua's head off like8-0 or 9-0 or whatever it was till the blatant huge left after the bell. The second fight I thought Rahman clearly won, but I can see how someone would score it in the 115-113 range based on swing rounds, tbh both guys looked faded in the rematch