Matthew Saad Muhammads missing fights

[dawudboxer]

Hi, according to boxrec Matthew Saad Muhammad had 10 extra wins. But it doesn't mention the dates or results or location. Does anyone know these?

Serge Bolivard, Reggie Neal and Jorge Espin in 1986, Kid Freeport, Ezeke Minus and Junior McKenzie in 1987, and Joao Cabreiro, Rafael Marin, Jose Ramon Zalazar and Eduardo Antonio Carranza in 1991.

Thanks

[wouter]

Short story: none of these fights ever happened.

[dawudboxer]

According to boxrec they did

[margaret thatcher]

Where does BoxRec say he had these fights?

[dawudboxer]

Where does BoxRec say he had these fights?

Margaret, it says it in the bio section. Its says Cyber boxing zone doesn't accept those fights but boxrec does, yet boxrec hasn't included them on the record. So he should be 49-16-3 not 39-16-3.

[wouter]

OK the site you’re currently on is Boxrec and we don’t list these fights. The comment in the Wiki has now been taken out. I’ve been an editor for Boxrec for about 20 years and you have to trust me on this one

[dawudboxer]

OK the site you’re currently on is Boxrec and we don’t list these fights. The comment in the Wiki has now been taken out. I’ve been an editor for Boxrec for about 20 years and you have to trust me on this one

Funnily enough I know what site I'm on, I also know that Boxrec has a tendency to exclude fights that happened for silly reasons as I've seen this recently with Danny Williams, Ashley Theophane and Prince Patel. All of whom boxed abroad but have had their fights excluded from their records because Boxrec has an issue with the sanctioning board the fights happened under.

MSM was likely 49-16, I'll have to find the dates and results elsewhere.

[dawudboxer]

Most media report him as being 49-16 too

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/spor ... -dead.html

ESPN mention the difference of opinion

https://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/i ... mp-dies-59

[dawudboxer]

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/bo ... 9/9612351/

https://www.ringtv.com/340285-matthew-s ... is-a-game/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-con ... story.html

[wouter]

This has nothing to do with any fights being sanctioned or not. Saad Muhammad’s record WAS listed here for a short while as 49-16 and that’s also the reason that the sources you mention report his record as such. The source that provided these extra bouts to Boxrec could not be trusted however and when these fights were found out to be completely fictional they were immediately taken off his record. All the links provided by you that mention the 49-16 record are based on that shortlived Boxrec error.

[margaret thatcher]

You'd think with how big a name Saad was, a famous and very fan friendly former champ, that at least some of those fights would be on video if they actually happened, or at least some detailed write ups

Who provided that misinfo btw?

[dawudboxer]

By then he was a journeyman boxing all over the world. Most of the fights he had at that period weren’t recorded.

[margaret thatcher]

Any fight writeups? anything?

[dawudboxer]

Any fight writeups? anything?

Not sure, wouldn’t know where to look

[dawudboxer]

If the fights happened they were probably in places like Bahamas. According to those that say he was 49-16, he had 35 ko’s, and those who say he was 39-16 he had 29 ko’s. So that means of the extra 10 wins, 6 were by knockout.

[Onamastus]

Those fights were likely invented to pad the horrendous losing record he had by that point, but the commissions clearly didn't buy them. In his penultimate bout, versus Andrew Maynard, his record was announced as 39-14-3, which is in accord with Boxrec. If those fights were real, they would have shown up on someone's computer at the time. I'm trying to remember if it was Fight Fax in those days. Wouter will probably know.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, and I mean I would think with a guy like Saad there would be at least some account of at least 1 of those fights. Evidence isnt exactly convincing is it

[dawudboxer]

Hi,

I’ve just found a website that actually gives the dates, venues and/or countries as well as the results for the additional 10 fights.

http://www.phillyboxinghistory.com/reco ... hammad.htm

I’ve emailed them to see what they can tell me.

[dawudboxer]

The fights were all abroad and he was known to box abroad at that time in his career. These fights aren’t far fetched. Let’s hope there is some record of these fights in the countries they are said to have happened in such as the Bahamas.

[wouter]

The fights were all abroad and he was known to box abroad at that time in his career. These fights aren’t far fetched. Let’s hope there is some record of these fights in the countries they are said to have happened in such as the Bahamas.

Once and for all... these fights were actually once listed at Boxrec and that's the ONLY reason why some other sites still list them. The source is actually Boxrec itself!! However, they never ever took place as already has been explained a few times.

[dawudboxer]

The opponent names were listed in his bio but not on his record and no dates were included. They are included on his record on the website I sent

[Controversial]

The opponent names were listed in his bio but not on his record and no dates were included. They are included on his record on the website I sent

I think what wouter is trying to explain to you is this site (boxrec) had bouts incorrectly listed for him. That incorrect list (or his overall record) was then copied by other sites. Boxrec has since discovered those fights never actually happened so they deleted those bouts from his record. So if you are seeing other fights elsewhere (or his record recorded differently) they probably got those stats from boxrec in the first place before boxrec removed them. So basically his current boxrec record is more accurate that whatever you are looking at on other sites.

[dawudboxer]

I understand what he is saying, but I’ve seen boxrec leave fights off of fighters records for many silly reasons, so to me real research has to be done to see if they happened or not. I’ve got footage of fights that boxrec won’t accept due to commissions they have issues with. Yet they accept other known corrupt commissions. Just cos boxrec says it didn’t happen doesn't mean it’s 100% true.

[goose 5]

Why don't you contact J Russell Peltz ? He's very friendly and a great source of knowledge, especially about Philly boxers. I bet he can satisfy your curiosity about this.

[wouter]

I understand what he is saying, but I’ve seen boxrec leave fights off of fighters records for many silly reasons, so to me real research has to be done to see if they happened or not. I’ve got footage of fights that boxrec won’t accept due to commissions they have issues with. Yet they accept other known corrupt commissions. Just cos boxrec says it didn’t happen doesn't mean it’s 100% true.

I also understand what you are saying, but that is not the case here. These fights never happened and it is a shame they are still listed elsewhere.