If Rocky Balboa Existed...

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 21 Jun 2006, 18:03

Would you consider him to be the greatest Heavyweight champion? I know this sounds ridiculous in some ways, but I watched a show a few years back and these historians were asked who they thought was the greatest Heavyweight champion, and they joked saying "Rocky Balboa".

So I have "compiled" Balboa's record, I watched the first to the fifth, and I can't really judge the out-come of the upcoming new Rocky movie, so I will leave that blank. Here is the "Italian Stallian's" record:

"Big Baby" Krenshaw- L
Spider Rico- KO2
(are the only known fights he had before Apollo Creed)

Had a record of 44 wins, 20 losses with 38 KO's, was a 50-1 underdog against Creed

Apollo Creed- L15
Apollo Creed-WKO15

(10 title defenses, one was a German champion)

Clubber Lang (undefeated #1 contender)- LKO2
Clubber Lang-WKO3

(Is stripped of title as he choses to face Ivan Drago)

Ivan Drago is 0-0-0, as his match with Apollo Creed was simply an exhibition bout, which he won by KO2 and Creed died from injuries. Drago was the world Amatuer champion, supposedly losing early in his amatuer carrer, which lead Creed to believe he could beat him.

Ivan Drago-WKO15

Retires despite being challenged by Union Kane, a contender under the promotion of George Washington Duke.

Engages in a street fight with champion Tommy "The Machine" Gunn, who was originally Balboa's protege, but opted to sign on with Duke, getting a title shot against Union Kane, who became the recognised champion, and won by KO1st. Balboa knocked out Gunn in the street brawl.

Comes out of retirement, after seeing a computer-simulated Heavyweight match-up between himself and current champion Mason Dixon, in which he wins. As broadcast from an ESPN show.

Mason "The Line" Dixon- outcome unknown

So more or less Balboa was a 2x Heavyweight champion. His career before Creed is sketchy, but you have to figure he was a clubfighter and despite having well over 60 fights he wasn't that great defensively. Rocky claimed he didn't get a "shot" at the big time because he was a south-paw, cus "nobody wants to fight no south-paw".

If you count the street fight with Gunn, you could say Balboa was a 3x champion. But even though his title was stripped off him when he faced Ivan Drago, like Spinks and Foreman in real life, he would still be considered by and large the lineal title holder.

What's your thoughts?

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 22 Jun 2006, 11:38

Rocky Balboa wouldn't have been that great a champion then would he? With that many losses to his name, the unsuccessful title defence + the unrealised challenges he left behind (Union Cane).

HOWEVER

I remember hearing somewhere that Balboa was loosely based on and inspired by the fighting spirit of the real "Rock", Rocky Marciano...

Although to compare them, would be an insult to Marciano's memory...

barry · Post by **barry** » 22 Jun 2006, 12:13

The way that Rocky Balboa took punches clean in the movies he wouldn't be much more than a record-padding type of fighter...George Foreman hit a lot harder than either Clubber Lang, or Ivan Drago!

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 22 Jun 2006, 12:59

I agree, if Balboa was real and he came up against the like of Foreman or Ali, he'd be done for...

1. If he fought Big George, he would need to go out and buy himself a new chin.

2. Ali would cut him ribbons, he just wouldn't catch him...

barry · Post by **barry** » 22 Jun 2006, 13:33

I've heard that the Rocky character was based after Chuck Wepner and I've heard that it was based after Gus Dorazio...probably Wepner though.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 22 Jun 2006, 22:58

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:What's your thoughts?

Too many sequals.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 23 Jun 2006, 23:33

....he'd be really old now. :)

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 25 Jun 2006, 09:51

The timeline in Rocky movies is really weird

Age 30: Record of 44-20-0 (38ko). Loses by SD15 to Apollo Creed the undisputed champ with a record of 46-0-0 who had previously never been knocked down.

Age 31: Knocks Creed out in a rematch, KO15. Was well beind on points.

Over a period of about 3 years he successfully defends his title 10 times, although not against anyone all that great (As admitted by trainer Micky).

Age 33/34: Loses by KO2 to undefeated Clubber Lang.

Age 34: Impressively beats Lang by KO3 in rematch.

Age ? (at least 36 judging by how old his son is): Has not defended his title in about 2 years, but still champ for some reason (wouldn't he have been stripped?). Fights seemingly invincible Ivan Drago (1-0-0 1 by KO, former world amateur champ) and wins by KO15, being outboxed and knocked down about 8 times in the process. Retired from professional boxing.

Most bizarrely of all, his son is at least 12 when he gets back from Russia, despite being no more than 7 when he left. This would indicate that Rocky is about 43 in Rocky 5.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 25 Jun 2006, 12:13

barry wrote:I've heard that the Rocky character was based after Chuck Wepner and I've heard that it was based after Gus Dorazio...probably Wepner though.

I've heard this too but I have a book that describes in detail how and why they based it off of Wepner, pretty cool idea I think.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 25 Jun 2006, 18:00

http://www.combus.net/combus/drago.jpg

http://www.dvdfever.co.uk/reviews/rocky1a.jpg

"If he dies, he dies."

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 29 Jun 2006, 19:50

Who was the ref for his fights? Ruby Goldstein?

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 29 Jun 2006, 20:04

Wouldnt the referee have waved most of Rocky's fights off in real life? There was too much sistained offence from guys.

Its almost impossible to make a good boxing movie from an action standpoint.

joe kurtz · Post by **joe kurtz** » 02 Jul 2006, 02:19

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Would you consider him to be the greatest Heavyweight champion? I know this sounds ridiculous in some ways, but I watched a show a few years back and these historians were asked who they thought was the greatest Heavyweight champion, and they joked saying "Rocky Balboa".

So I have "compiled" Balboa's record, I watched the first to the fifth, and I can't really judge the out-come of the upcoming new Rocky movie, so I will leave that blank. Here is the "Italian Stallian's" record:

"Big Baby" Krenshaw- L
Spider Rico- KO2
(are the only known fights he had before Apollo Creed)

Had a record of 44 wins, 20 losses with 38 KO's, was a 50-1 underdog against Creed

Apollo Creed- L15
Apollo Creed-WKO15

(10 title defenses, one was a German champion)

Clubber Lang (undefeated #1 contender)- LKO2
Clubber Lang-WKO3

(Is stripped of title as he choses to face Ivan Drago)

Ivan Drago is 0-0-0, as his match with Apollo Creed was simply an exhibition bout, which he won by KO2 and Creed died from injuries. Drago was the world Amatuer champion, supposedly losing early in his amatuer carrer, which lead Creed to believe he could beat him.

Ivan Drago-WKO15

Retires despite being challenged by Union Kane, a contender under the promotion of George Washington Duke.

Engages in a street fight with champion Tommy "The Machine" Gunn, who was originally Balboa's protege, but opted to sign on with Duke, getting a title shot against Union Kane, who became the recognised champion, and won by KO1st. Balboa knocked out Gunn in the street brawl.

Comes out of retirement, after seeing a computer-simulated Heavyweight match-up between himself and current champion Mason Dixon, in which he wins. As broadcast from an ESPN show.

Mason "The Line" Dixon- outcome unknown

So more or less Balboa was a 2x Heavyweight champion. His career before Creed is sketchy, but you have to figure he was a clubfighter and despite having well over 60 fights he wasn't that great defensively. Rocky claimed he didn't get a "shot" at the big time because he was a south-paw, cus "nobody wants to fight no south-paw".

If you count the street fight with Gunn, you could say Balboa was a 3x champion. But even though his title was stripped off him when he faced Ivan Drago, like Spinks and Foreman in real life, he would still be considered by and large the lineal title holder.

What's your thoughts?

Ha!
I KNEW it!
There actually IS ( are ) other record fanatics out there like me obsessive-compulsive enough to go through the trouble to compile the records of fictional charecters.
I came up with the same calculations & timeline as you did a while back & posted it on another site & was told that I was a sick individual for doing so. LOL

Great job though. You actually did me one better by listing another pre-Creed opponent than me. The only one I had was his KO2 over Spider Rico from the original's opening scene.

joe kurtz · Post by **joe kurtz** » 02 Jul 2006, 02:57

jezzamundo wrote:The timeline in Rocky movies is really weird

Age 30: Record of 44-20-0 (38ko). Loses by SD15 to Apollo Creed the undisputed champ with a record of 46-0-0 who had previously never been knocked down.

Age 31: Knocks Creed out in a rematch, KO15. Was well beind on points.

Over a period of about 3 years he successfully defends his title 10 times, although not against anyone all that great (As admitted by trainer Micky).

Age 33/34: Loses by KO2 to undefeated Clubber Lang.

Age 34: Impressively beats Lang by KO3 in rematch.

Age ? (at least 36 judging by how old his son is): Has not defended his title in about 2 years, but still champ for some reason (wouldn't he have been stripped?). Fights seemingly invincible Ivan Drago (1-0-0 1 by KO, former world amateur champ) and wins by KO15, being outboxed and knocked down about 8 times in the process. Retired from professional boxing.

Most bizarrely of all, his son is at least 12 when he gets back from Russia, despite being no more than 7 when he left. This would indicate that Rocky is about 43 in Rocky 5.

Yeah, the continuity in the series is DEFINITELY whacked!

I mean, I can suspend my disbelief just as well as the next guy when it comes to stuff like the HALLOWEEN series or FRIDAY THE 13TH...
But, c'mon, there are instances when some of those films try harder & are more accurate than the ROCKY films!

Take for instance the supposedly career ending, blindness threatening eye injury from ROCKY II. The Rock must have had SOME doctor, because by ROCKY III it's a complete non-factor & is never mentioned again.

Then there's the pugilistic dementia that he's suffering so badly from in ROCKY V. Something tells me that it's miraculously going to be a non-issue in the forthcoming sixth film...

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 02 Jul 2006, 05:01

Good series, but the Rocky movies are based on who out trains the other. The theme of the movies are if you go through the more greuling training sessions...you'll win. It's like 10% mental and 90% physical...kinda makes me mad

So in the Rocky movies, Balboa could beat Ali or Foreman or whoever he is supposed to fight.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Jul 2006, 12:20

Boxbuzz,Creed,UD

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 02 Jul 2006, 14:37

Most bizarrely of all, his son is at least 12 when he gets back from Russia, despite being no more than 7 when he left. This would indicate that Rocky is about 43 in Rocky 5.

i know thats so ridiculous

also in rocky IV before apollo fought drago, rocky said "take it easy appollo, u havnt been in the ring in about 5 years"

now since the last time appollo fought was rocky II when rocky was 31, that would mean rocky IV took place when rocky was 36 five years later

when exactley was rockys prime?? u could make a case his peak was at 36 vs ivan drago.

or u could make a case his peak was 34 when he was 190lb vs clubber lang, or perhaps when he was 30 vs appollo creed when he had more youthness.

fact is balboa was very good against the big men........

KO 3 237lb clubber lang - balboa only 191lb

KO 15 6'2 202lb appolo creed

KO 15 6'6 260lb ivan drago

spider rico in real life is pedro lovell and in 1975 pedro lovell was 6'3 212lb so thats another win vs a big man

balboa was a giant killer!

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 02 Jul 2006, 14:39

lang does not match up well vs creed, u saw wut a speedy 34 year old balboa did to lang in the rematch. creed would box circles around lang and let lang punch himself out and creed will finish him off around 7th or 8th round

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 02 Jul 2006, 15:15

HEY! YOU FORGOT THUNDERLIPS THE ULTIMATE MALE, 7FT +!!!

stallone valuev is in the making.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 03 Jul 2006, 03:11

Wow, Stallone must be short if Mr T is only 5'9, because he looks about 2 inches shorter than Clubber Lang in the film.

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 03 Jul 2006, 10:05

All the middleweights from the contender towered above him. As did the sugarman if i remember correctly.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:30

earnie shavers talked about how in real life, stallone was much shorter and smaller than he appeared to be on tv

also in rocky III they announced thunderlips as 7'

joe kurtz · Post by **joe kurtz** » 03 Jul 2006, 20:46

Yeah, I believe Stallone is only my height, which is 5'8".
I remember reading about a cover shoot for either SI or Time magazine with him & Gerry Cooney ( I have the issue somewhere in storage, but I'm too lazy to search for the damned thing, but now that I think of it was definitely Time... ) on it from May of '82 & how the photographer had to have Stallone stand on a box in order to get him in the same shot as Cooney.

joe kurtz · Post by **joe kurtz** » 03 Jul 2006, 20:55

Also in '82, I remember ESPN showing footage of him "sparring" with both Joe Frazier & Earnie Shavers in test footage while Stallone was still trying to cast the roll of Clubber Lang & they both towered over him & looked massive in the ring with him & neither one of them were "big" heavies at 5'11" & 6' even...
Though I've always thought it was silly that he was seriously considering Frazier for the role when he'd already had him appear as himself in the first film.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 04 Jul 2006, 01:43

From what Hogan says in his biography, Stallon is only like Middleweight-Super Middleweight in real life and about 5'6"

Course Hogan to his own admission says at his peak height he was 6'7", which I would believe to be more accurate than 6'8"-6'9", as Dennis Rodman towered over him---but Hogan was taller than Foreman and Ali, as they all did either exhibitions or pictures together.

I think what is ironic Stallone hired athletes to do the movies with him, as Carl Weathers was a football player, Mr. T was a former Toughman champion, Dolph Lungren I believe was a European Kick Boxing champion or judo (?) and Tommy Morrison was a WBO titllist and now he's using Antonio Tarver for the new one.

I recall Shavers once did an interview where Stallone asked Shavers to hit him full power, like he would any other boxer, and Earnie protested, but gave in to Stallone's pleading and hit Stallone in the gut about 25% and Stallone was about puking on the floor---and later Shavers was told they couldn't use him for the movie.

Ironically, Hogan told a similar story, as Stallone wanted to be slammed and hit like a any other wrestler---and Hogan said he hit Stallone with a fore arm to the back about 75% and he hit to the floor.

Also, I think in the movie "Ivan Drago" was billed at 290 pounds...and Thunderlips was 361 pounds----about a 30% exaggeration as Hogan was probably 280 pounds in real life, and Lungren was prolly 240 pounds.

AND....Drago's record was NOT 1-0-0 (1)...the match he had with Creed was an EXHIBITION----that is probably why Balboa could not get a sanctioned fight in the USA against Drago and had his title taken away when he chose to face Drago, who had no professional record.

And YES...in Rocky 4 Balboa's title was stripped, because look at the magazines appearing and disappearing off the screen and one of them says that his title was stripped----so when he retired in Rocky 5, his "title" had to have been just a "lineal" title, like Foreman had in the 90's when he refused to face Tucker (IBF belt was stripped) and Axl Schulz a second time (WBA belt was stripped)...thus leaving him as a lineal champion, until Briggs took his "title" in 97.

If Rocky Balboa Existed...

If Rocky Balboa Existed...

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