Kung Fu in the UFC

[goose 5]

Have Kung Fu techniques ever been used in the UFC ?

[Steveh583]

Well it could be argued that jeet June do (being one of the first 'popularised' versions of cross training) was considered a kung fu system. Tho historians will point to Barton e Wright's bartitsu hybrid pre dating it. Not to mention pankration.

Quite a few kung th systems prioritise following specific principles over physical techniques, so they will undoubtedly be on display.

All martial arts cross over to a certain degree. The oblique kick for example, is used a lot in wing chun. There are so many different styles of kung fu that it would be astounding if some techniques weren't used. Afterall, the human body only moves in so many different ways. What differentiates an elbow strike from muay thai from say, a silat elbow? Basically they aren't systems, an elbow is simply an elbow.

[goose 5]

What prompted my question was a discussion I had regarding Wing Chung and whether or not an "expert" in that style could beat pro boxer. Let's say a pro with ten round level experience, not a PFP guy or even a world champion. I'm talking on the street, no wraps or gloves.

[Wee Tommy]

What prompted my question was a discussion I had regarding Wing Chung and whether or not an "expert" in that style could beat pro boxer. Let's say a pro with ten round level experience, not a PFP guy or even a world champion. I'm talking on the street, no wraps or gloves.

No chance. They don’t have the full contact experience.

There’s a low level MMA guy in China goes round absolutely smashing dojo masters. It’s on YouTube.

If they were gonna do it they would have done it.

[Fray Bentos]

What prompted my question was a discussion I had regarding Wing Chung and whether or not an "expert" in that style could beat pro boxer. Let's say a pro with ten round level experience, not a PFP guy or even a world champion. I'm talking on the street, no wraps or gloves.

No chance. They don’t have the full contact experience.

There’s a low level MMA guy in China goes round absolutely smashing dojo masters. It’s on YouTube.

If they were gonna do it they would have done it.

That poor pudendum is getting some absolute heat over that

They come at him in fives or six in a group though, they don't take him on, on his own.

[Steveh583]

What prompted my question was a discussion I had regarding Wing Chung and whether or not an "expert" in that style could beat pro boxer. Let's say a pro with ten round level experience, not a PFP guy or even a world champion. I'm talking on the street, no wraps or gloves.

short answer, no a wing chun guy isn't going to beat a pro fighter in a match fight. But like anything in regards to these imaginary scenerios, it depends on context. Which wing chun guy vs which pro boxer? Where is the fight taking place? An open space? A elevator? Does the pro boxer have room to work in? Basically it's the person who wins fights, not systems. No style will do the actual fighting for you.

It is however worth considering that a) wing chun was designed primarily for women to stun and escape a violent assault, b)it was also adapted to be used in extremely close proximity where the long punches and movement of sport fighting aren't really an option. It's easy to dismiss traditional martial arts, but the tactile sensitivity learned in many wing chun drills can be extremely beneficial in the relevant situation. For example, when dealing with a tussling, pushy/grabby kind of drunk person. I trained with a very capable doorman who swore by it, especially as more and more restrictions are placed on door staff in regards to what they are legally allowed to do.

Also, how is a 'win' being defined? say if the wing chun practitioner eye jabbed the boxer Jon Jones style and legged it, is that considered a victory? Cos that's basically what the art was designed for. Quick blasts down the centreline followed by immediate escape.

[punchoutsb]

What prompted my question was a discussion I had regarding Wing Chung and whether or not an "expert" in that style could beat pro boxer. Let's say a pro with ten round level experience, not a PFP guy or even a world champion. I'm talking on the street, no wraps or gloves.

The answer to this comes from how much "real" combat experience the expert has. I love traditional martial arts, but simply learning a technique in a vacuum does not allow you to use that technique effectively if you've never actually used the technique.

The "problem" with many TMA's is that they offer very little in the way of training (or sparring) through a real life fight or self-defense scenario. This is often because the techniques are described as "too dangerous" to use on a real person, which unfortunately doesn't allow the practitioner any way of actually REALLY learning the technique. EDITED TO ADD: If your self defense art is "too dangerous" to practice on people, then it's likely pretty useless. Apart from not being able to really practice a technique, ripping someones eyeball out or disconnecting their scrotum from the rest of them isn't an appropriate response to most self-defense situations where a well placed punch, kick, or shove would have done the trick.

If you've only ever struck the mu ren zhuang then good luck not getting pieced up by anyone with even a little experience. It takes time and effort to become skilled at anything...even things like getting punched. If you watch some of the "masters getting exposed" videos coming out of the east that have been mentioned in this thread, you'll notice that the main issue is that these masters do not know what it feels like to actually be struck, and they are almost all terrible at judging distance. These aspects of fighting (whether in sport or in real life) only really come from hands on experience.

There's no way around it; practicing the thing you want to be good at is how you get better at that thing. If you've never sparred with another human, chances are you will not be good at fighting another human unless there are some other variables introduced.

As for Kung Fu in the UFC, Sanda is the form of Kung Fu most translatable to MMA since it includes full-contact. Cung Le, Muslim Salikhov and Zabit Magomedsharipov are probably the best examples of it's effectiveness.

[goose 5]

Great responses, guys. I was shown videos of a "Master Wong" and told that he would block and parry a pros punches and not get hit. He looks very impressive to me but he wasn't in with a pro fighter, to the best of my knowledge. This guy is all over youtube, as you guys know, I'm sure.

[punchoutsb]

Great responses, guys. I was shown videos of a "Master Wong" and told that he would block and parry a pros punches and not get hit. He looks very impressive to me but he wasn't in with a pro fighter, to the best of my knowledge. This guy is all over youtube, as you guys know, I'm sure.

Yeah "Master Wong" is a pretty controversial fellow simply because he's never shared his training lineage, which is pretty important in many Kung Fu styles. He looks very good at what he does though.

The problem with anyone making claims about beating so and so or being able to demonstrate a certain skill against anyone is that there are literally thousands upon thousands of avenues to prove this. To me when people make those claims I tend to lose a little respect for them. I knew a guy once who had just finished his army combatives course claim he would be able to kill Randy Couture in a street fight with his bare hands since Randy only fought within certain rulesets and there are no rules on the street...yet this guy had never been in any sort of fight under any ruleset in his life. I had a good laugh and moved on.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Well it could be argued that jeet June do (being one of the first 'popularised' versions of cross training) was considered a kung fu system. Tho historians will point to Barton e Wright's bartitsu hybrid pre dating it. Not to mention pankration.

Jeet Kune Do?

[Wee Tommy]

Great responses, guys. I was shown videos of a "Master Wong" and told that he would block and parry a pros punches and not get hit. He looks very impressive to me but he wasn't in with a pro fighter, to the best of my knowledge. This guy is all over youtube, as you guys know, I'm sure.

Yeah "Master Wong" is a pretty controversial fellow simply because he's never shared his training lineage, which is pretty important in many Kung Fu styles. He looks very good at what he does though.

The problem with anyone making claims about beating so and so or being able to demonstrate a certain skill against anyone is that there are literally thousands upon thousands of avenues to prove this. To me when people make those claims I tend to lose a little respect for them. I knew a guy once who had just finished his army combatives course claim he would be able to kill Randy Couture in a street fight with his bare hands since Randy only fought within certain rulesets and there are no rules on the street...yet this guy had never been in any sort of fight under any ruleset in his life. I had a good laugh and moved on.

I though Wong was a parody? Guys appears to be a comedy act...

[Wee Tommy]

What prompted my question was a discussion I had regarding Wing Chung and whether or not an "expert" in that style could beat pro boxer. Let's say a pro with ten round level experience, not a PFP guy or even a world champion. I'm talking on the street, no wraps or gloves.

No chance. They don’t have the full contact experience.

There’s a low level MMA guy in China goes round absolutely smashing dojo masters. It’s on YouTube.

If they were gonna do it they would have done it.

That poor pudendum is getting some absolute heat over that

They come at him in fives or six in a group though, they don't take him on, on his own.

Is that right mate poor guys just exposing them really.

[punchoutsb]

Great responses, guys. I was shown videos of a "Master Wong" and told that he would block and parry a pros punches and not get hit. He looks very impressive to me but he wasn't in with a pro fighter, to the best of my knowledge. This guy is all over youtube, as you guys know, I'm sure.

Yeah "Master Wong" is a pretty controversial fellow simply because he's never shared his training lineage, which is pretty important in many Kung Fu styles. He looks very good at what he does though.

The problem with anyone making claims about beating so and so or being able to demonstrate a certain skill against anyone is that there are literally thousands upon thousands of avenues to prove this. To me when people make those claims I tend to lose a little respect for them. I knew a guy once who had just finished his army combatives course claim he would be able to kill Randy Couture in a street fight with his bare hands since Randy only fought within certain rulesets and there are no rules on the street...yet this guy had never been in any sort of fight under any ruleset in his life. I had a good laugh and moved on.

I though Wong was a parody? Guys appears to be a comedy act...

I don't think HE believes he's a parody. He's the modern day equivalent of the back of the comic ads back in the day.

[margaret thatcher]

Interesting

One dude says he looks really good, the other says he's a laughable parody

[Wee Tommy]

Interesting

One dude says he looks really good, the other says he's a laughable parody

Have you watched him?

[margaret thatcher]

No, though anyone with master in their name I'm immediately suspicious of

[punchoutsb]

Interesting

One dude says he looks really good, the other says he's a laughable parody

To be fair I said he looks very good at what he does...which is not fighting, but rather selling himself as a mysterious product on the internet.

It's pretty undeniable that he is very good at selling his techniques with that "hidden mystic" background he's fabricated for himself. He has something like 2 or 3 million subscribers on youtube. I highly doubt he would even be considered a wing chun practitioner by anyone with real lineage in that specific art, and I sure as heck don't think he'd be winning any real fights against real combat sports athletes.

[Steveh583]

Well it could be argued that jeet June do (being one of the first 'popularised' versions of cross training) was considered a kung fu system. Tho historians will point to Barton e Wright's bartitsu hybrid pre dating it. Not to mention pankration.

Jeet Kune Do?

Yes you’ll have to forgive my auto correct function lol

[Wee Tommy]

Yeah "Master Wong" is a pretty controversial fellow simply because he's never shared his training lineage, which is pretty important in many Kung Fu styles. He looks very good at what he does though.

The problem with anyone making claims about beating so and so or being able to demonstrate a certain skill against anyone is that there are literally thousands upon thousands of avenues to prove this. To me when people make those claims I tend to lose a little respect for them. I knew a guy once who had just finished his army combatives course claim he would be able to kill Randy Couture in a street fight with his bare hands since Randy only fought within certain rulesets and there are no rules on the street...yet this guy had never been in any sort of fight under any ruleset in his life. I had a good laugh and moved on.

I though Wong was a parody? Guys appears to be a comedy act...

I don't think HE believes he's a parody. He's the modern day equivalent of the back of the comic ads back in the day.

Soon as I seen his first video I was like wtf am I watching...then I seen he had millions of views and subscribers and I remembered how fùcken fake the world is

[Fray Bentos]

No chance. They don’t have the full contact experience.

There’s a low level MMA guy in China goes round absolutely smashing dojo masters. It’s on YouTube.

If they were gonna do it they would have done it.

That poor pudendum is getting some absolute heat over that

They come at him in fives or six in a group though, they don't take him on, on his own.

Is that right mate poor guys just exposing them really.

They're a disgrace, most of them are shithouses, however great they are at their art, they're only brave if they have five mates backing them up .

Of course, Chinese MMA guy is an exception, he is Segal like.

[Tevfik1907]

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought (in real life and real fights, not movies) Kung Fu is useful because it has a lot of poking with fingers, poking eyes, poking ears, poking the throat, and other vital areas.

But since poking is illegal in UFC, Kung Fu is basically useless in there.

[Steveh583]

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought (in real life and real fights, not movies) Kung Fu is useful because it has a lot of poking with fingers, poking eyes, poking ears, poking the throat, and other vital areas.

But since poking is illegal in UFC, Kung Fu is basically useless in there.

Whilst it is true that a lot of the techniques in kung fu would get you disqualified in a sporting contest, you still have to be capable enough to set up the positions to land such as strike. I would also be hesitant to rely on such methods if it was a real life situation. An eye is an extremely small target that’s very easy to miss when your opponent is moving and you are in the throes of an adrenal dump. But yes, the dynamics of a fight certainly change when eye/groin/throat/spine strikes are permitted. There is a Filipino art based primarily on biting, that alone would flip the concept of having a ground game on its head. As with anything, you have to consider the context and environment.

[Fray Bentos]

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought (in real life and real fights, not movies) Kung Fu is useful because it has a lot of poking with fingers, poking eyes, poking ears, poking the throat, and other vital areas.

But since poking is illegal in UFC, Kung Fu is basically useless in there.

Whilst it is true that a lot of the techniques in kung fu would get you disqualified in a sporting contest, you still have to be capable enough to set up the positions to land such as strike. I would also be hesitant to rely on such methods if it was a real life situation. An eye is an extremely small target that’s very easy to miss when your opponent is moving and you are in the throes of an adrenal dump. But yes, the dynamics of a fight certainly change when eye/groin/throat/spine strikes are permitted. There is a Filipino art based primarily on biting, that alone would flip the concept of having a ground game on its head. As with anything, you have to consider the context and environment.

Just looked that up, kino mutai - fascinating stuff, every day is a school day.

Biting the nipple is allowed, fornicate sparring with that shit - you can have my dinner money.

[Tevfik1907]

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought (in real life and real fights, not movies) Kung Fu is useful because it has a lot of poking with fingers, poking eyes, poking ears, poking the throat, and other vital areas.

But since poking is illegal in UFC, Kung Fu is basically useless in there.

Whilst it is true that a lot of the techniques in kung fu would get you disqualified in a sporting contest, you still have to be capable enough to set up the positions to land such as strike. I would also be hesitant to rely on such methods if it was a real life situation. An eye is an extremely small target that’s very easy to miss when your opponent is moving and you are in the throes of an adrenal dump. But yes, the dynamics of a fight certainly change when eye/groin/throat/spine strikes are permitted. There is a Filipino art based primarily on biting, that alone would flip the concept of having a ground game on its head. As with anything, you have to consider the context and environment.

The point I was trying to make that, if poking is now allowed, then in terms of striking, boxing and kick-boxing is more useful than kung-fu punches and kicks. So trying to use kung-fu moves just get you knocked out.

Imagine trying Bruce Lee's flying kick in UFC



The only useful technique looks like this;



4:10 (eye poking, then attack the ear) and it's not allowed.

Also iirc, Bruce Lee said a guy who’s been wrestling and boxing for 1 year can beat a martial artist who’s been training for 15 years.

So the boxing + wrestling is far superior to other martial arts such as kung-fu, karate etc.

[Steveh583]

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought (in real life and real fights, not movies) Kung Fu is useful because it has a lot of poking with fingers, poking eyes, poking ears, poking the throat, and other vital areas.

But since poking is illegal in UFC, Kung Fu is basically useless in there.

Whilst it is true that a lot of the techniques in kung fu would get you disqualified in a sporting contest, you still have to be capable enough to set up the positions to land such as strike. I would also be hesitant to rely on such methods if it was a real life situation. An eye is an extremely small target that’s very easy to miss when your opponent is moving and you are in the throes of an adrenal dump. But yes, the dynamics of a fight certainly change when eye/groin/throat/spine strikes are permitted. There is a Filipino art based primarily on biting, that alone would flip the concept of having a ground game on its head. As with anything, you have to consider the context and environment.

The point I was trying to make that, if poking is now allowed, then in terms of striking, boxing and kick-boxing is more useful than kung-fu punches and kicks. So trying to use kung-fu moves just get you knocked out.

Imagine trying Bruce Lee's flying kick in UFC



The only useful technique looks like this;



4:10 (eye poking, then attack the ear) and it's not allowed.

Also iirc, Bruce Lee said a guy who’s been wrestling and boxing for 1 year can beat a martial artist who’s been training for 15 years.

So the boxing + wrestling is far superior to other martial arts such as kung-fu, karate etc.

like anything, it depends on the individual person and how they are training more so than what they are training in my opinion