Jack Johnson/London exhibition (1908)

[Caractacus]

I was reading the book Unforgivable Blackness the other day and came across something interesting.on page 108
It mentions that when Jack Johnson was in London England in 1908
he had done a public exhibition with an unnamed local heavyweight
at Hengler's Circus in Argyll Street. (where the London Palladium in Soho now stands)
The other HW could not land a glove on Johnson and then someone in the gallery shouted
"Go on,get at him !"
which the boxer yelled back
"Gawd blimey! You come and have ago"

Fred Dartnell the veteran referee had only said that it was a very good heavyweight.
anyone know who the other fighter was in the ring with Jack Johnson ?

[BitPlayer]

No, but I'll look

Edit: I found a report in The Sportsmen but it's basically unreadable
Edit 2: Might have been Jack Scales
Edit: 3: Looks like he had a good few exhibitions at that venue, do you know the specific date?

[Caractacus]

not sure,but it had to have been at least in June 1908 before he fought Ben Taylor.
BTW according to his fight record in his 1927 autobiography
he states he also fought Al McNamara in Plymouth around the same time he fought Ben Taylor,
but I don't see his fight with Al McNamara listed in his fight record here at Boxrec.
Jack Scales was from London and
Bethnal Green is definately in the East End of London.

http://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/40133


BTW also in IN THE RING AND OUT
Jack Johnson states in the text ( but not listed in his ring record in that book)that he had also fought Fred Drummond in Plymouth too.
Fred Drummond was from South London (Lambeth)
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/57728

[prewarboxing]

Jack Johnson arrived at Plymouth, Devon on Monday, April 27th 1908 from the States on board the German steamship, the Kronprinz Wilhelm. He arrived with his manager Sam Fitzpatrick. He then took a train from Plymouth to Paddington Station in London, checked into the Adelphi Hotel and then, in the evening, he went to the National Sporting Club, Covent Garden, to see the boxing. Top of the bill that night was a twenty round contest in which the New Zealander, Charlie Griffin, stopped the British bantamweight, Joe Bowker, in eight rounds.

Johnson was chasing Tommy Burns, who as also in London at the same time, with the intention of forcing him into a title defence which, as we all know, finally took place in Sydney, eight months later.

The two men traded words in the sporting press and Burns, who was staying at Jack Straw's Castle, a pub in Hampstead which is still there, although it is no longer a hostelry, immediately posted £1000 with the Sporting Life stating that if Johnson's camp would match this amount then the fight was on. Fitzpatrick objected to the terms that Burns was insisting on with regards to the arrangements for the proposed match and did not out up the money. Johnson then challenged Gunner Moir but this was rebuffed when Moir drew the colour bar and refused to meet the American.

On Monday May 11th, two weeks after his arrival in England, Johnson opened up his music hall exhibition tour at the Shoreditch Empire, sparring three rounds with Jewey Smith.

Over the next few months his tour included the following (with sparring opponents listed):

May 12 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jewey Smith
May 13 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 14 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 15 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 16 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 20 to May 23 Hengler's Circus - (unknown)
May 25 South London Palace - Gunner Hart (Borough), Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 26 South London Palace - Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 27 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone), Bombardier Mills (Royal Field Artillery) and Jim O'Connor
May 28 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
May 29 South London Palace - Tom Matthews (9th Lancers)
May 30 afternoon - Charles Urban's Photographic Studio, Wardour Street - Jem Styles - this was filmed
May 30 South London Palace - Fred Drummond (Lambeth)

Johnson then took some time off and moved to the Coach and Horses in Willesden, where the landlord, a big boxing man, who also weighed about 30 stone and was known as Jolly Jumbo, looked after him. This man was W T Ecclestone. This pub is sadly, gone. Sam Langford had also stayed at this pub when he was in the UK.

Jun 18 Coach and Horses - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
Jun 22 to 27 Paragon, Mile End - Johnson boxed exhibitions against many boxers. He also appeared at the Oxford Music Hall during the same week

By this time Johnson's main sparring partner was Fred Drummond, although he also crossed gloves with, amongst others, Jim Sullivan of Bermondsey, a middleweight who was British champion, Dick Bailey (Bethnal Green) and Harry Fowler (Bethnal Green) and Bert Smith (Custom House).

Jun 29 to Jul 4 Oxford Music Hall, Oxford Street, London - Drummond, Fowler and Smith

On July 12th Johnson was matched with Ben Taylor (Woolwich) for a contest at Plymouth. This bout took place on July 31st. Johnson trained for it at Regents Park, I am not sure exactly where.

I will come back with more on this tomorrow but in the meantime that takes things from April to July 1908

Miles Templeton

[evrenb]

Jack Johnson arrived at Plymouth, Devon on Monday, April 27th 1908 from the States on board the German steamship, the Kronprinz Wilhelm. He arrived with his manager Sam Fitzpatrick. He then took a train from Plymouth to Paddington Station in London, checked into the Adelphi Hotel and then, in the evening, he went to the National Sporting Club, Covent Garden, to see the boxing. Top of the bill that night was a twenty round contest in which the New Zealander, Charlie Griffin, stopped the British bantamweight, Joe Bowker, in eight rounds.

Johnson was chasing Tommy Burns, who as also in London at the same time, with the intention of forcing him into a title defence which, as we all know, finally took place in Sydney, eight months later.

The two men traded words in the sporting press and Burns, who was staying at Jack Straw's Castle, a pub in Hampstead which is still there, although it is no longer a hostelry, immediately posted £1000 with the Sporting Life stating that if Johnson's camp would match this amount then the fight was on. Fitzpatrick objected to the terms that Burns was insisting on with regards to the arrangements for the proposed match and did not out up the money. Johnson then challenged Gunner Moir but this was rebuffed when Moir drew the colour bar and refused to meet the American.

On Monday May 11th, two weeks after his arrival in England, Johnson opened up his music hall exhibition tour at the Shoreditch Empire, sparring three rounds with Jewey Smith.

Over the next few months his tour included the following (with sparring opponents listed):

May 12 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jewey Smith
May 13 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 14 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 15 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 16 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 20 to May 23 Hengler's Circus - (unknown)
May 25 South London Palace - Gunner Hart (Borough), Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 26 South London Palace - Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 27 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone), Bombardier Mills (Royal Field Artillery) and Jim O'Connor
May 28 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
May 29 South London Palace - Tom Matthews (9th Lancers)
May 30 afternoon - Charles Urban's Photographic Studio, Wardour Street - Jem Styles - this was filmed
May 30 South London Palace - Fred Drummond (Lambeth)

Johnson then took some time off and moved to the Coach and Horses in Willesden, where the landlord, a big boxing man, who also weighed about 30 stone and was known as Jolly Jumbo, looked after him. This man was W T Ecclestone. This pub is sadly, gone. Sam Langford had also stayed at this pub when he was in the UK.

Jun 18 Coach and Horses - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
Jun 22 to 27 Paragon, Mile End - Johnson boxed exhibitions against many boxers. He also appeared at the Oxford Music Hall during the same week

By this time Johnson's main sparring partner was Fred Drummond, although he also crossed gloves with, amongst others, Jim Sullivan of Bermondsey, a middleweight who was British champion, Dick Bailey (Bethnal Green) and Harry Fowler (Bethnal Green) and Bert Smith (Custom House).

Jun 29 to Jul 4 Oxford Music Hall, Oxford Street, London - Drummond, Fowler and Smith

On July 12th Johnson was matched with Ben Taylor (Woolwich) for a contest at Plymouth. This bout took place on July 31st. Johnson trained for it at Regents Park, I am not sure exactly where.

I will come back with more on this tomorrow but in the meantime that takes things from April to July 1908

Miles Templeton

This is superb. I know Willesden fairly well. I wonder where the pub was. Great stuff Miles.

[prewarboxing]

Ok lets continue.

In the week prior to his contest with with Taylor, Jack Johnson did some of his training in the gymnasium at the National Sporting Club in King Street, Covent Garden. He was watched by the editor of the Mirror of Life, J Frank Bradley, who, having been a boxer himself in his youth, then had three rounds of friendly sparring himself with Johnson.
Jack Johnson left London on the 10.45 am train from Waterloo Station to Plymouth on Thursday July 30th 1908 for his contest with Ben Taylor, due to take place the next day at the Cosmopolitan Gymnasium, Mill Street, Plymouth. His departure time was publicised in the Sporting Life and so one can imagine quite a crowd turning up at Waterloo Station to witness his departure.

For London fight fans wishing to witness the event there was a special saloon carriage added to the train that left Paddington Station at 1.00pm on the day of the contest, which was due in at Plymouth at 18.30. This saloon carriage was for use by fight fans travelling down. It must have been a great experience to leave Paddington behind an express steam train, in a carriage serving food and drink, sitting alongside fellow fight fans for five and a half hours, travelling to see Jack Johnson in the ring. I was born in the wrong era! Amongst those on the 1.00pm departure were J Frank Bradley and Peggy Bettinson of the National Sporting Club.

There was a large contingent of fight fans on the platform to welcome Johnson when he arrived at Plymouth station on July 30th. Johnson beat Taylor, the ‘Woolwich Infant’, in eight rounds and afterwards paid complement to his opponent stating that he had never met a gamer man during his whole career. After the contest had ended there was a gathering at the Mount Pleasant Hotel, in Plymouth, where Taylor had established his training camp. Johnson himself turned up at the hotel to give Taylor his congratulations on having put up such a good contest.
Johnson returned to Buckinghamshire, where he was now residing, shortly after the contest and took some time off from his busy schedule.

During the last week in August Johnson travelled to Dublin to attend Horse Show week and he gave a series of exhibitions at the Antient Concert Rooms, sparring partners unknown. He left Dublin on August 31st, and travelled to Bristol where he appeared that night, at the Empire, and sparred three rounds with Bert Smith (Custom House).

Johnson remained in Bristol all week and on Saturday, September 5th he attended the Bristol City v Everton game at Ashton Gate in what was stated to be the first Association Football match that he had ever seen. Everton won 2-0. By September 7th he was back in London and it was announced that he had been matched to box Mike Schreck at the National Sporting Club on October 19th. On September 14th is was announced by Schreck’s manager, Jimmy Kelly, that the fight was off as Schreck could not be relied upon to get into decent condition for the contest. Kelly then dumped Schreck, refusing to manage him from that point on. With Burns now in Australia, Johnson was left high and dry, without a meaningful contest, and the man he had been chasing on the other side of the world. A match was then made between Johnson and Sam Langford, due to take place at the National Sporting Club on November 9th
On September 15th Johnson appeared at the Empress Music Hall in Brixton sparring with Bert Smith (Custom House).
September 16 Empress Music Hall, Brixton - Bert Smith (Custom House) and Tony Waters (Royal Navy).
September 17 Empress Music Hall, Brixton - Bert Smith (Custom House)
September 18 Empress Music Hall, Brixton – Gunner Hart (Borough) and Bert Smith (Custom House)
September 19 Empress Music Hall, Brixton – Bert Smith (Custom House)

On Monday September 21st left London, departing from Charing Cross Station on the scheduled 1.20pm boat train across to France, to begin his long journey to Australia, where he finally met, and beat, Tommy Burns, three months later. Prior to his final Music hall appearance on the 19th he fulfilled two engagements. He attended the offices of the National Sporting Club and signed an undertaking to the club which said “Gentlemen, I undertake and agree to carry out my contest with Sam Langford on February 22 1909 on the same terms and conditions as already agreed with Langford. At the dame time, allow me to tender my thanks to you for the courtesy you have extended me whilst in this country. I am, gentlemen, yours faithfully, Jack Johnson”. He then went to the Tivoli Theatre, The Strand, to see the comedians Harry Lauder and George Robey, where he was recognised by the crowd and heartily cheered. That evening, as well as sparring at Brixton, he did the same at Clapham, I don’t know who with, but I feel certain it will have been Bert Smith. He left Clapham at 11.20pm, got into a car and charged over to Wonderland where he was due to give his farewell speech from the ring, but he arrived too late, as the customers were leaving the building with the night’s boxing completed.

On Monday, September 21st, the departure of the boat train was delayed by an hour and there was a very large crowd at Charing Cross Station to see him off. A privileged few were given access to the platform and, as the train departed, it did so to the strains of ‘For He’s A Jolly Good Fellow’.

Thus ended Jack Johnson’s Great Britain 1908 tour.

Miles Templeton

[orbtastic]

Comprehensive and interesting read, Miles. Thanks.

[Flump]

Fabulous read Miles.

[prewarboxing]

Thanks fellas. I love doing this sort of thing. Despite all my rambling I haven't answered the original question however.

[orbtastic]

I don't read Boxing News regularly enough now but randomly bought a copy last week - Do you have a regular column/page in it? Or was it a one-off.

[Onamastus]

Invaluable contribution from Miles, as always. Thank you!

[prewarboxing]

I don't read Boxing News regularly enough now but randomly bought a copy last week - Do you have a regular column/page in it? Or was it a one-off.

I do every other week. I share the column with Alex Daley. I wrote next week's article just this morning. It is about Eddie Hearn. Not that Eddie Hearn, but the 1952 ABA Heavyweight Champion and Helsinki Olympian from Battersea.

For any editors here his record on Boxrec is wrong. There was no such contest at Blackpool on Dec 31 1954. That is an error and it needs removing. His record was 13-7.

Miles Templeton

[prewarboxing]

Jack Johnson arrived at Plymouth, Devon on Monday, April 27th 1908 from the States on board the German steamship, the Kronprinz Wilhelm. He arrived with his manager Sam Fitzpatrick. He then took a train from Plymouth to Paddington Station in London, checked into the Adelphi Hotel and then, in the evening, he went to the National Sporting Club, Covent Garden, to see the boxing. Top of the bill that night was a twenty round contest in which the New Zealander, Charlie Griffin, stopped the British bantamweight, Joe Bowker, in eight rounds.

Johnson was chasing Tommy Burns, who as also in London at the same time, with the intention of forcing him into a title defence which, as we all know, finally took place in Sydney, eight months later.

The two men traded words in the sporting press and Burns, who was staying at Jack Straw's Castle, a pub in Hampstead which is still there, although it is no longer a hostelry, immediately posted £1000 with the Sporting Life stating that if Johnson's camp would match this amount then the fight was on. Fitzpatrick objected to the terms that Burns was insisting on with regards to the arrangements for the proposed match and did not out up the money. Johnson then challenged Gunner Moir but this was rebuffed when Moir drew the colour bar and refused to meet the American.

On Monday May 11th, two weeks after his arrival in England, Johnson opened up his music hall exhibition tour at the Shoreditch Empire, sparring three rounds with Jewey Smith.

Over the next few months his tour included the following (with sparring opponents listed):

May 12 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jewey Smith
May 13 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 14 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 15 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 16 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 20 to May 23 Hengler's Circus - (unknown)
May 25 South London Palace - Gunner Hart (Borough), Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 26 South London Palace - Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 27 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone), Bombardier Mills (Royal Field Artillery) and Jim O'Connor
May 28 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
May 29 South London Palace - Tom Matthews (9th Lancers)
May 30 afternoon - Charles Urban's Photographic Studio, Wardour Street - Jem Styles - this was filmed
May 30 South London Palace - Fred Drummond (Lambeth)

Johnson then took some time off and moved to the Coach and Horses in Willesden, where the landlord, a big boxing man, who also weighed about 30 stone and was known as Jolly Jumbo, looked after him. This man was W T Ecclestone. This pub is sadly, gone. Sam Langford had also stayed at this pub when he was in the UK.

Jun 18 Coach and Horses - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
Jun 22 to 27 Paragon, Mile End - Johnson boxed exhibitions against many boxers. He also appeared at the Oxford Music Hall during the same week

By this time Johnson's main sparring partner was Fred Drummond, although he also crossed gloves with, amongst others, Jim Sullivan of Bermondsey, a middleweight who was British champion, Dick Bailey (Bethnal Green) and Harry Fowler (Bethnal Green) and Bert Smith (Custom House).

Jun 29 to Jul 4 Oxford Music Hall, Oxford Street, London - Drummond, Fowler and Smith

On July 12th Johnson was matched with Ben Taylor (Woolwich) for a contest at Plymouth. This bout took place on July 31st. Johnson trained for it at Regents Park, I am not sure exactly where.

I will come back with more on this tomorrow but in the meantime that takes things from April to July 1908

Miles Templeton

This is superb. I know Willesden fairly well. I wonder where the pub was. Great stuff Miles.

evrenb - The pub was on the Harrow Road in Stonebridge.

Here is a picture of it before it was later rebuilt.



I wll post something about W T Ecclestone, "Jolly Jumbo" under a different thread shortly

Miles Templeton

[orbtastic]

I had respect for Rob Olver but his section (time for the old timers?) and the ama section I used to regularly skip past. I found myself skipping over the fight reports this time and going for the old timer stuff and interviews.

[Caractacus]

Jack Johnson and his manager seem to have arrived in England around the time for the official opening of the
stadium by King Edward IV for 1908 Olympics (April 27th 1908)
which was being held at White City Stadium.
with The opening ceremonies begining in July.

The Heavyweight Gold Medal Winner was a man named Albert Oldman.
discribed as a "East End Constable".
But he didn't win the medal until October.27th 1908 (a day when all the boxing events there happened)
Do you think Jack Johnson have done an exhibition with an amateur ?

[prewarboxing]

Jack Johnson and his manager seem to have arrived in England around the time for the official opening of the
stadium by King Edward IV for 1908 Olympics (April 27th 1908)
which was being held at White City Stadium.
with The opening ceremonies begining in July.

The Heavyweight Gold Medal Winner was a man named Albert Oldman.
discribed as a "East End Constable".
But he didn't win the medal until October.27th 1908 (a day when all the boxing events there happened)
Do you think Jack Johnson have done an exhibition with an amateur ?

Yes highly likely he sparred with an amateur. It would have been quite normal, back then, for him to have done so

Miles Templeton

[prewarboxing]

Just to show what a small world it is, my mate , who drinks in my local, and is a seriously good guitarist with no interest in boxing, his Great Grandad won a bronze medal in the boxing at the 1908 Olympics. His name was W Philo, and he boxed for the Gainsford AC

Miles Templeton

[Caractacus]

BTW make that King Edward VII who opened it on 27th April 1908.

[wouter]

For any editors here his record on Boxrec is wrong. There was no such contest at Blackpool on Dec 31 1954. That is an error and it needs removing. His record was 13-7.

Miles Templeton

[evrenb]

Jack Johnson arrived at Plymouth, Devon on Monday, April 27th 1908 from the States on board the German steamship, the Kronprinz Wilhelm. He arrived with his manager Sam Fitzpatrick. He then took a train from Plymouth to Paddington Station in London, checked into the Adelphi Hotel and then, in the evening, he went to the National Sporting Club, Covent Garden, to see the boxing. Top of the bill that night was a twenty round contest in which the New Zealander, Charlie Griffin, stopped the British bantamweight, Joe Bowker, in eight rounds.

Johnson was chasing Tommy Burns, who as also in London at the same time, with the intention of forcing him into a title defence which, as we all know, finally took place in Sydney, eight months later.

The two men traded words in the sporting press and Burns, who was staying at Jack Straw's Castle, a pub in Hampstead which is still there, although it is no longer a hostelry, immediately posted £1000 with the Sporting Life stating that if Johnson's camp would match this amount then the fight was on. Fitzpatrick objected to the terms that Burns was insisting on with regards to the arrangements for the proposed match and did not out up the money. Johnson then challenged Gunner Moir but this was rebuffed when Moir drew the colour bar and refused to meet the American.

On Monday May 11th, two weeks after his arrival in England, Johnson opened up his music hall exhibition tour at the Shoreditch Empire, sparring three rounds with Jewey Smith.

Over the next few months his tour included the following (with sparring opponents listed):

May 12 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jewey Smith
May 13 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 14 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 15 Shoreditch Empire - Trooper Cooke (Royal Horse Guards) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 16 Shoreditch Empire - (unknown)
May 20 to May 23 Hengler's Circus - (unknown)
May 25 South London Palace - Gunner Hart (Borough), Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 26 South London Palace - Tom Jones (Camberwell) and Jem Styles (Marylebone)
May 27 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone), Bombardier Mills (Royal Field Artillery) and Jim O'Connor
May 28 South London Palace - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
May 29 South London Palace - Tom Matthews (9th Lancers)
May 30 afternoon - Charles Urban's Photographic Studio, Wardour Street - Jem Styles - this was filmed
May 30 South London Palace - Fred Drummond (Lambeth)

Johnson then took some time off and moved to the Coach and Horses in Willesden, where the landlord, a big boxing man, who also weighed about 30 stone and was known as Jolly Jumbo, looked after him. This man was W T Ecclestone. This pub is sadly, gone. Sam Langford had also stayed at this pub when he was in the UK.

Jun 18 Coach and Horses - Jem Styles (Marylebone) and Fred Drummond (Lambeth)
Jun 22 to 27 Paragon, Mile End - Johnson boxed exhibitions against many boxers. He also appeared at the Oxford Music Hall during the same week

By this time Johnson's main sparring partner was Fred Drummond, although he also crossed gloves with, amongst others, Jim Sullivan of Bermondsey, a middleweight who was British champion, Dick Bailey (Bethnal Green) and Harry Fowler (Bethnal Green) and Bert Smith (Custom House).

Jun 29 to Jul 4 Oxford Music Hall, Oxford Street, London - Drummond, Fowler and Smith

On July 12th Johnson was matched with Ben Taylor (Woolwich) for a contest at Plymouth. This bout took place on July 31st. Johnson trained for it at Regents Park, I am not sure exactly where.

I will come back with more on this tomorrow but in the meantime that takes things from April to July 1908

Miles Templeton

This is superb. I know Willesden fairly well. I wonder where the pub was. Great stuff Miles.

evrenb - The pub was on the Harrow Road in Stonebridge.

Here is a picture of it before it was later rebuilt.



I wll post something about W T Ecclestone, "Jolly Jumbo" under a different thread shortly

Miles Templeton

Wow. Thats about a 15 minute walk from where my Auntie lives and I grew up for a while. More Pub History lost...

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Miles, I stand before you humbled, and most magnificently...

If Miles ain't already in the boxrec HOF, I hereby nominate him for his own category of the ONE and the onliest as Ali liked to say.

That was epic

[Caractacus]

hey, would you have any additional info on the boxing background of Albert Oldman (Miles End-East End)
(winner of the Gold medal heavyweight 1908 Olympics ?
did he receive his boxing training in the British Army ?
whom did he defeat to represent Great Britain ?

[prewarboxing]

hey, would you have any additional info on the boxing background of Albert Oldman (Miles End-East End)
(winner of the Gold medal heavyweight 1908 Olympics ?
did he receive his boxing training in the British Army ?
whom did he defeat to represent Great Britain ?

Oldham was a policeman, boxing for the London City Police AC. There were only six competitors at heavyweight in 1908, all of them English, and two of them policemen.

I am not sure what you mean by 'whom did he defeat to represent Great Britain?'. There was no qualifying tournament. The competition took the form of an open tournament. Anyone could enter, nine did, but the Dutch and French competitors withdrew, as did JWHT Douglas, who entered, and won, the Middleweight competition instead

Miles Templeton

[margaret thatcher]

An opportune time to be an Olympian!

[Flump]

hey, would you have any additional info on the boxing background of Albert Oldman (Miles End-East End)
(winner of the Gold medal heavyweight 1908 Olympics ?
did he receive his boxing training in the British Army ?
whom did he defeat to represent Great Britain ?

Oldham was a policeman, boxing for the London City Police AC. There were only six competitors at heavyweight in 1908, all of them English, and two of them policemen.

I am not sure what you mean by 'whom did he defeat to represent Great Britain?'. There was no qualifying tournament. The competition took the form of an open tournament. Anyone could enter, nine did, but the Dutch and French competitors withdrew, as did JWHT Douglas, who entered, and won, the Middleweight competition instead

Miles Templeton

The same JWHT Douglas who also played cricket for Essex and England! Slightly more accomplished in the ring than Freddie Flintoff then?