Ratings - please read before commenting - Archived

[computerrank]

Did Lara losing points make Hurd and Williams lose points as well because now retroactively the Hurd win over Lara doesn't look as good?

Lara's loss of points had no impact to Hurd and Williams.

[jujigatame]

So basically this is my imagination.

[mike1989]

Saul Alvarez: The current rating from 2005 to 2012 increased to 895.8 points, although the maximum rating of the opposition during this period was Josecito Lopez 2012 57.74 points. The question is how the rating could grow so much if in 2020 the rating of the fighters drops with a smaller drop in points ???

[mike1989]

based on what I see before 2012-2014, the current rating was artificially wound and the fighters in the rating were placed manually. Then they launched the formula, only a problem, the formula will work to lower the overall rating and for a long time without correctives it will not exist, then it will greatly cut the point to the fighters.

[computerrank]

based on what I see before 2012-2014, the current rating was artificially wound and the fighters in the rating were placed manually. Then they launched the formula, only a problem, the formula will work to lower the overall rating and for a long time without correctives it will not exist, then it will greatly cut the point to the fighters.

The ratings are stable over times, be sure.
But the ratings are strongly influenced by former and later results. So an attempted explanation based on a too short time period around a certain date in not sufficient.

[JCS]

WHR is nearly impossible to explain to folks

[mike1989]

based on what I see before 2012-2014, the current rating was artificially wound and the fighters in the rating were placed manually. Then they launched the formula, only a problem, the formula will work to lower the overall rating and for a long time without correctives it will not exist, then it will greatly cut the point to the fighters.

The ratings are stable over times, be sure.
But the ratings are strongly influenced by former and later results. So an attempted explanation based on a too short time period around a certain date in not sufficient.

I write what I see clearly and what thoughts these ratings suggest. At the same time, I argue my point of view.

[computerrank]

based on what I see before 2012-2014, the current rating was artificially wound and the fighters in the rating were placed manually. Then they launched the formula, only a problem, the formula will work to lower the overall rating and for a long time without correctives it will not exist, then it will greatly cut the point to the fighters.

The ratings are stable over times, be sure.
But the ratings are strongly influenced by former and later results. So an attempted explanation based on a too short time period around a certain date in not sufficient.

I write what I see clearly and what thoughts these ratings suggest. At the same time, I argue my point of view.

If all big results of Golovkin after 2014 are neglected, his career rating would have peaked on 2013-11-02 against Curtis Stevens with 446.5 points.



So you can see the strong influence of his later results even to bouts of 2013.

[SportsRatings]

WHR is nearly impossible to explain to folks

Best to have them watch the 'Star Trek' where young Spock meets future Spock

[JCS]

Martin,

I have a question... Since WHR by nature, considers past and future performances... and that of boxer's opponents, etc.... how do you properly assess prediction rates when deciding on the parameters you use?

I have had a few ideas.. but they either seem incomplete or incredibly time & resource intensive.

[computerrank]

Martin,

I have a question... Since WHR by nature, considers past and future performances... and that of boxer's opponents, etc.... how do you properly assess prediction rates when deciding on the parameters you use?

I have had a few ideas.. but they either seem incomplete or incredibly time & resource intensive.

Following steps in my program using all bouts between 2009 and 2018 (10 years) for the prediction:
- calculate ratings on 2008-12-31 for all bouts from history start to 2008-12-31 (60 iterations)
- for each bout after that date
-- calculate 3 WHR iterations for the opponents involved in the bout without adding the bout to the collection
-- use the resulting ratings for bout prediction
-- add the bout to the collection
-- calculate another WHR iteration for the opponents involved in that bout
- when month of date changes additionally
-- calculate 1 WHR iteration for all boxers included until then


So I needed some 60 initial and 120 monthly iterations for all boxers, which took about 4 hours for all 2 million bouts and 600 thousand boxers.

[JCS]

Martin,

I have a question... Since WHR by nature, considers past and future performances... and that of boxer's opponents, etc.... how do you properly assess prediction rates when deciding on the parameters you use?

I have had a few ideas.. but they either seem incomplete or incredibly time & resource intensive.

Following steps in my program using all bouts between 2009 and 2018 (10 years) for the prediction:
- calculate ratings on 2008-12-31 for all bouts from history start to 2008-12-31 (60 iterations)
- for each bout after that date
-- calculate 3 WHR iterations for the opponents involved in the bout without adding the bout to the collection
-- use the resulting ratings for bout prediction
-- add the bout to the collection
-- calculate another WHR iteration for the opponents involved in that bout
- when month of date changes additionally
-- calculate 1 WHR iteration for all boxers included until then


So I needed some 60 initial and 120 monthly iterations for all boxers, which took about 4 hours for all 2 million bouts and 600 thousand boxers.

So you're essentially creating snapshots and using those... that was my time/resource intensive idea :)

[computerrank]

So you're essentially creating snapshots and using those... that was my time/resource intensive idea :)

I fear, that will be about the minimal effort to get it ... but you have less bouts and less years to test, isn't it

[mike1989]

the impact of past battles is more relevant to the All Time rating than to the current rating. This is due to the fact that on the example of Gennady Golovin, his peak strength dropped by 32-35 years and the maximum current rating by 35-38 years, although objectively it is now weaker ????

[computerrank]

the impact of past battles is more relevant to the All Time rating than to the current rating. This is due to the fact that on the example of Gennady Golovin, his peak strength dropped by 32-35 years and the maximum current rating by 35-38 years, although objectively it is now weaker ????

What do you mean with peak strength, please?

[mike1989]

the impact of past battles is more relevant to the All Time rating than to the current rating. This is due to the fact that on the example of Gennady Golovin, his peak strength dropped by 32-35 years and the maximum current rating by 35-38 years, although objectively it is now weaker ????

What do you mean with peak strength, please?

When a fighter is in top shape and career. a fighter at 32-35 years old is stronger than himself at 35-38 years old.

[mike1989]

the impact of past battles is more relevant to the All Time rating than to the current rating. This is due to the fact that on the example of Gennady Golovin, his peak strength dropped by 32-35 years and the maximum current rating by 35-38 years, although objectively it is now weaker ????

What do you mean with peak strength, please?

When a fighter is in top shape and career. a fighter at 32-35 years old is stronger than himself at 35-38 years old.

a fighter may have a higher rating at an older age in case of real victories over opponents and not subjective factors ???

[jujigatame]

Does the new system see fighter ages, or is it solely based on fight results?

[Manrae]

What's the update on updating the annual ratings?

[computerrank]

What's the update on updating the annual ratings?

within the next 14 days ...

[Manrae]

What's the update on updating the annual ratings?

within the next 14 days ...

Cool

[jujigatame]

There's definitely some lingering bug with the star ratings disappearing. Tonight's Marriaga/Gonzalez fight is missing stars now.

[computerrank]

There's definitely some lingering bug with the star ratings disappearing. Tonight's Marriaga/Gonzalez fight is missing stars now.

Gonzales' rating went to 0. Last change was fight weight. That has to be inspected ....

[marcianofan]

Hi computerrank, I normally make a list of fights involving top-50 fighters in certain divisions before they happen and the ranks of the fighters at the time, but I fell asleep this weekend and didn't get around to it in time. If you get a chance, would you mind telling me the rankings of the following fighters as of right before their fights (eg Friday morning) this past weekend?

Balasz Bacskei
Fedor Chudinov
Umar Sadiq
Mark Heffron
Denzel Bentley
Anthony Yarde
Dec Spelman
Ekow Essuman
Egidijus Kavaliauskas
Mikael Zewski

Much appreciated, if you can manage it.

[computerrank]

Hi computerrank, I normally make a list of fights involving top-50 fighters in certain divisions before they happen and the ranks of the fighters at the time, but I fell asleep this weekend and didn't get around to it in time. If you get a chance, would you mind telling me the rankings of the following fighters as of right before their fights (eg Friday morning) this past weekend?

Balasz Bacskei - result not in - was / is #31
Fedor Chudinov - was #5
Umar Sadiq - was #87
Mark Heffron - was #41
Denzel Bentley - was #98
Anthony Yarde - was #26
Dec Spelman - was #110
Ekow Essuman - was #84
Egidijus Kavaliauskas - was #17
Mikael Zewski - was #35

Much appreciated, if you can manage it.

I added the old ranks to you post.
Method: I just set the results to no contest in my test account and so got the old ranks.