Canelo

JimJim2009
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Re: Canelo

Post by JimJim2009 »

Boxing Prospect wrote: 10 Sep 2020, 03:12 Whoever signed that deal (and Eddie Hearn's $1bn one) needs taking out back and shooting.

At $40m fight (his purse + $5m) they needed around 2m people to tune in at $20 a pop. The global viewer base for DAZN currently stands at about 8m.

Completely idiotic business.

I get loss leaders, and how they entice people in etc etc, or they act as a marketing tool etc. Completely get it. But they are meant to be manageable losses, affordable losses, losses that open the door to a profit. I also accept there were more in the way of incoming money (advertising, international rights where DAZN aren't currently in action etc, etc), but that was still a completely ridiculous sum of money for a 2-time a year participant in a niche sport, with an aging fan base, on a niche new service.

I can't help but repeatedly think that DAZN though their competition was ESPN/Showtime/Fox ETC, when really it was Netflix/Amazon Prime/Hulu. They marketed as if they were in the sports field, but really their competition was the streaming rivals, and they offer so much more, with flexibility.

Streaming in sport IS the way forward IMO, but it needs to be built up gradually, rather than have money men spunking all over the walls. The big splash of new media rarely pans out well. See Quibi as another example.
Great post :TU: I think Dazn were realising that their boxing output at the time was not bringing in any new subscribers, it wasn't "moving the needle" as Arum said, so they "spunked" money ( :lol: ) all over Canelo as a statement signing possibly to show some of the more stubborn big names in the sport that its fine to switch over to Dazn. The worldwide economic effects of covid will be felt for years and years to come and I can't see Dazn's business model ever paying off, it won't even be down to them, it'll be down to the money providers and the question of whether or not they want to keep funding it at this sort of rate, clearly that decision has been made, hence not wanting to pay Canelo forty million a pop.

Looking at all the argy bargy over who'll fight Canelo next over the past few months, to me it has been a case of everyone looking at the total prize money and they all want a bigger slice. From the reports etc I think BJS was offered six million and Eddie wanted about ten, which means Canelo taking less, and nobody does that in boxing (as far as we know) except Lomachenko. Its just pure greed, there is a set amount of money and if you think you can beat Canelo, take the six million and have a crack at it. You then get Oscar trying to test the waters with worse opponents who'll take less money, just to wind up the others and apply pressure. It's a bit childish really because they can go running to the media to put across their side of the story yet don't just come out with the figures. People could make a proper view if it was a case of, ok total purse money is forty million, and Canelo won't (for example) split it $30m to $10m with BJS and wants it more $34m to $6m. Don't hide behind generic comments like "if you want to make champion money, beat the champion", just come out with the figures and then there is nowhere to hide.

Canelo is now between a rock and a hard place, his broadcaster wants to squeeze him, and his potential opponents do as well, and his relationship with Oscar is not great either according to reports. I know boxing is a business but they all need to grow up, appreciate times have changed and get an opponent picked and agree on the money. If it ends up in court who knows when Canelo will next get in the ring. We're in Sept so there is only so many weeks before you either rule in or rule out a fight by the end of this year. I'd love to see Smith and BJS unify before the end of the year, in the absence of Canelo actually fighting the winner of that fight would take centre stage at 160/168lbs and be the overwhelming choice to face Canelo next May and by holding two belts they'd have a strong hand in negotiations.
Onetimeonly
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Re: Canelo

Post by Onetimeonly »

Canelo isn't at fault for dazn's miscalculation that Americans have even a slight interest in boxing. I'm not a fan, but he clearly isn't afraid of a challenge.
jameswilson
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Re: Canelo

Post by jameswilson »

He also has said he thinks any legal problems will be sorted within a few months? Is he having a laugh? How long has Frampton v McGuigan dragged on for.
coneye
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Re: Canelo

Post by coneye »

Its interesting ,,, But i really think a lot will hinge on wether the contract was x amount for 11 fights or x amount per fight , what is it 360 million or something for 11 fights , that could well mean some fights Dazn can say no , and no means no ,, They perhaps could say Smith is'nt a premier fighter so he's only worth 10 mill out of the total amount , but GGG is a premier fighter and we will pay 50 mill .

Really interesting times ahead for Canelo , he could well be tied up for a long time , I just cannot believe DAZN did not have all the T's crossed and the I's dotted ,,, we don't know whats in the contract , but i highly doubt it would of been the same amount for every fight regardless of who ,,, Because surely Dazn could'nt be that stupid , could they :-?
Grilling Machine
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Re: Canelo

Post by Grilling Machine »

Premium's in the context of optimal profits, and they're right about that. Masvidal would do bigger numbers than Smith, no question, but Callum's one of the strongest possible opponents around, not Jorge.

There's a disparity between Canelo's biggest fights and his best ones — the challenges he should be facing. It's Mayweather again, and it suits both sides.
JimJim2009
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Re: Canelo

Post by JimJim2009 »

coneye wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 09:52 Its interesting ,,, But i really think a lot will hinge on wether the contract was x amount for 11 fights or x amount per fight , what is it 360 million or something for 11 fights , that could well mean some fights Dazn can say no , and no means no ,, They perhaps could say Smith is'nt a premier fighter so he's only worth 10 mill out of the total amount , but GGG is a premier fighter and we will pay 50 mill .

Really interesting times ahead for Canelo , he could well be tied up for a long time , I just cannot believe DAZN did not have all the T's crossed and the I's dotted ,,, we don't know whats in the contract , but i highly doubt it would of been the same amount for every fight regardless of who ,,, Because surely Dazn could'nt be that stupid , could they :-?
Apparently they didn't have it locked down in the contract for a third fight with GGG despite also signing GGG ! If i was funding Dazn's boxing i'd want to know why
coneye
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Re: Canelo

Post by coneye »

JimJim2009 wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 11:02
coneye wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 09:52 Its interesting ,,, But i really think a lot will hinge on wether the contract was x amount for 11 fights or x amount per fight , what is it 360 million or something for 11 fights , that could well mean some fights Dazn can say no , and no means no ,, They perhaps could say Smith is'nt a premier fighter so he's only worth 10 mill out of the total amount , but GGG is a premier fighter and we will pay 50 mill .

Really interesting times ahead for Canelo , he could well be tied up for a long time , I just cannot believe DAZN did not have all the T's crossed and the I's dotted ,,, we don't know whats in the contract , but i highly doubt it would of been the same amount for every fight regardless of who ,,, Because surely Dazn could'nt be that stupid , could they :-?
Apparently they didn't have it locked down in the contract for a third fight with GGG despite also signing GGG ! If i was funding Dazn's boxing i'd want to know why
LOL Really does seem to be a mess does'nt it ,, thing i can't work out is how so many people who are obviously rich and smart , can all be so stupid , :lol:
JimJim2009
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Re: Canelo

Post by JimJim2009 »

coneye wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 11:09
JimJim2009 wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 11:02
coneye wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 09:52 Its interesting ,,, But i really think a lot will hinge on wether the contract was x amount for 11 fights or x amount per fight , what is it 360 million or something for 11 fights , that could well mean some fights Dazn can say no , and no means no ,, They perhaps could say Smith is'nt a premier fighter so he's only worth 10 mill out of the total amount , but GGG is a premier fighter and we will pay 50 mill .

Really interesting times ahead for Canelo , he could well be tied up for a long time , I just cannot believe DAZN did not have all the T's crossed and the I's dotted ,,, we don't know whats in the contract , but i highly doubt it would of been the same amount for every fight regardless of who ,,, Because surely Dazn could'nt be that stupid , could they :-?
Apparently they didn't have it locked down in the contract for a third fight with GGG despite also signing GGG ! If i was funding Dazn's boxing i'd want to know why
LOL Really does seem to be a mess does'nt it ,, thing i can't work out is how so many people who are obviously rich and smart , can all be so stupid , :lol:
Its a total embarrassment for all of them really because Dazn started with Eddie, and then when Eddie couldn't bring in the big names, they did direct deals with Canelo and GGG; Eddie has got Smith, and BJS, and in the Dazn era none of them have actually fought each other despite Dazn spunking hundreds and hundreds of millions into their venture. If you had a situation where Canelo, GGG, Smith and BJS (the latter two being unbeaten world champs, obviously not stars like Canelo and GGG) all were avoiding each other, and then somebody launched a "game changing" online channel with about a billion behind it, and signed all those guys up, and yet they still didn't fight each other after they'd all been signed up, you would just not believe it. Its like a premier league where the top teams just face mid-table and lower-table opposition and don't actually play each other. These fighters are all multi-millionaires, how hard can it be to actually just accept there's less money sloshing around in the sport, and just sign on the dotted line ??
Frostieballs
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Re: Canelo

Post by Frostieballs »

JimJim2009 wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 12:50
coneye wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 11:09
JimJim2009 wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 11:02

Apparently they didn't have it locked down in the contract for a third fight with GGG despite also signing GGG ! If i was funding Dazn's boxing i'd want to know why
LOL Really does seem to be a mess does'nt it ,, thing i can't work out is how so many people who are obviously rich and smart , can all be so stupid , :lol:
Its a total embarrassment for all of them really because Dazn started with Eddie, and then when Eddie couldn't bring in the big names, they did direct deals with Canelo and GGG; Eddie has got Smith, and BJS, and in the Dazn era none of them have actually fought each other despite Dazn spunking hundreds and hundreds of millions into their venture. If you had a situation where Canelo, GGG, Smith and BJS (the latter two being unbeaten world champs, obviously not stars like Canelo and GGG) all were avoiding each other, and then somebody launched a "game changing" online channel with about a billion behind it, and signed all those guys up, and yet they still didn't fight each other after they'd all been signed up, you would just not believe it. Its like a premier league where the top teams just face mid-table and lower-table opposition and don't actually play each other. These fighters are all multi-millionaires, how hard can it be to actually just accept there's less money sloshing around in the sport, and just sign on the dotted line ??
But even if those guys did all box each other, is it going to generate a fraction of the money being piled in? With or without Covid. There must have been some big assumptions made.
margaret thatcher
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Re: Canelo

Post by margaret thatcher »

Apparently Canelo and his team have never actually read the contract, seems dumb?
Frostieballs
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Re: Canelo

Post by Frostieballs »

coneye wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 11:09
JimJim2009 wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 11:02
coneye wrote: 11 Sep 2020, 09:52 Its interesting ,,, But i really think a lot will hinge on wether the contract was x amount for 11 fights or x amount per fight , what is it 360 million or something for 11 fights , that could well mean some fights Dazn can say no , and no means no ,, They perhaps could say Smith is'nt a premier fighter so he's only worth 10 mill out of the total amount , but GGG is a premier fighter and we will pay 50 mill .

Really interesting times ahead for Canelo , he could well be tied up for a long time , I just cannot believe DAZN did not have all the T's crossed and the I's dotted ,,, we don't know whats in the contract , but i highly doubt it would of been the same amount for every fight regardless of who ,,, Because surely Dazn could'nt be that stupid , could they :-?
Apparently they didn't have it locked down in the contract for a third fight with GGG despite also signing GGG ! If i was funding Dazn's boxing i'd want to know why
LOL Really does seem to be a mess does'nt it ,, thing i can't work out is how so many people who are obviously rich and smart , can all be so stupid , :lol:
The thing I have learned about situations like this, across all walks of life including business and politics, is that the guys in these positions are not actually much smarter than everyone else. They may have a particular skill that gets them to a certain position, be well connected, well liked or related to a key person. Often they are good salesmen with massive (not always justified) self-confidence (blaggers). But at the end of the day they are just people and make the same mistakes we would in those positions.
jamesmcdonnell
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Re: Canelo

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

I agree, the biggest determining factor for success in business is greed, not intelligence.
mikeinmaine
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Re: Canelo

Post by mikeinmaine »

Canelo is in the Drivers seat, like it or not. He can and WILL do whatever he wants or Doesn't Want. Unfortunately.
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