Battling Jim Johnson: Underrated?

[Cap]

Doing a bit of background on Battling Jim Johnson and having trouble putting a finger on the real guy listed in Boxrec. Is the Johnson who boxed Sam McVea in Paris the same guy who got a draw against Jack Johnson? McVea is listed at five feet ten and a half inches tall. In the Youtube video Jim Johnson appears to be an inch or so shorter and in good shape. In newspaper reports of Johnson's battles however, he's often described as a large man, perhaps six feet tall. He's also described as being very heavy, often well over 220 pounds and fat. I'm wondering if more than one African American boxed as "Battling Jim Johnson". I know of at least one white boxer who fought under the same name.

The Jim Johnson in Boxrec seems to be a hot and cold performer. He loses often but draws with some top fighters. Robert Edgren, the noted sportswriter and cartoonist thought Johnson often had himself under wraps when fighting other black boxers so he could fight more often, collecting more pay days. One thing I've noticed about Johnson, he seemed to have poor hand eye coordination causing him to hit other guys low with some frequency, often resulting in disqualification. He was known as someone with heavy hands who could also take an almost inhuman amount of punishment. Not sure what to make of him. Where would he fit in the top black fighters of his era?

[cfang]

His wikkipedia page is oddly scathing. Looking at the film of him and mcvea, hes a strong and durable fellow but somewhat limited. He seemed to lose a lot of comfortable decisions and didn't have the talent to turn them into wins

Died quite young of the spanish flu i believe

[Ambling Alp II]

In "Unforgivable Blackness", Jim Johnson is referred to as tall, which is interesting. The author labeled him a journeyman. I think he was a decent fighter. He fought tough competition and was probably much better than his win/loss record may suggest. He did enough to show that he was not a stiff.

[klompton]

Limited skillwise but bulky and strong.

[Cap]

So, here's what should be a simple question. Was the Jim Johnson who boxed Sam McVea as seen in the Youtube video, the same Jim Johnson who boxed a draw with Jack Johnson in Paris?

[Ambling Alp II]

This is what I think:
They fought twice in 1910. The first on august 7, was the 15 round draw that you mentioned. however, it was just outside of Paris, in Neuilly-sur-Seine. If you look at the pciture in boxrec, it looks like the you tube video.
https://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:92311

Notice McVey a wearing the protective cup outside his trunks and referee looks the same.

They fought again on November 19 of that year. That time it was in Paris, and McVey won by a KO in the 21st round.

[wouter]

So, here's what should be a simple question. Was the Jim Johnson who boxed Sam McVea as seen in the Youtube video, the same Jim Johnson who boxed a draw with Jack Johnson in Paris?

Here's a simple answer: Yes.

[pound per pound]

So, here's what should be a simple question. Was the Jim Johnson who boxed Sam McVea as seen in the Youtube video, the same Jim Johnson who boxed a draw with Jack Johnson in Paris?

Yes. While only a few minutes of footage is shown, Battling Johnson seemed to be getting the better of Mcvey.

As I watch Battling Jim Johnson, Jack Johnson and Sam McVey post 1910 I gain appreciate for Jess Willard, who probably could have been champion sooner if given the opportunity.

[Cap]

Came across another photo of Johnson in the ring with McVea at Paris. He looks almost a head shorter than Sam but has really long arms. If McVea was 5' 10 1/2" Johnson must've been 5' 5" maybe 5'6". Makes his draw with Jack Johnson even more impressive and makes me think Langford would've had an excellent chance at beating Jack.

[wouter]

It’s clear from the film of their fight, that McVea is not a head taller.

[margaret thatcher]

And Sam would've actually been done growing so not like he got any taller, not like he was some developing teenager

[Cap]

Check this photo out. McVea and Battling Jim Johnson. Click on zoom.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... rk=85837;2

[mattdonnellon]

In reports from his fight with PO Curran he is described as the same height as "Nutty" ie 5-10 or 5-10 1/2.

[margaret thatcher]

He was a short arse, just shows how some things get distorted and misinfo gets passed around

[margaret thatcher]

It’s clear from the film of their fight, that McVea is not a head taller.

Ya, going by that Jimmy's prob about 5'8 or something

Unforgivable Shortness !

[Ambling Alp II]

Check this photo out. McVea and Battling Jim Johnson. Click on zoom.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... rk=85837;2

It's hard to tell because Johnson was not standing up straight.

[wouter]

Check this photo out. McVea and Battling Jim Johnson. Click on zoom.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... rk=85837;2

Who cares about a single photo when the film of the fight itself is readily available? The fighters are squaring up around the 30 second mark of the clip and it is clear that your photo does not give an accurate reflection of Johnson's height.

[pound per pound]

In reading the book Unforgivable Blackness, is does appear Battling Jim bettered Jack Johnson.

The judging. One vote for Battling Jim, the other two judges voted a draw.

The newspaper read says Jack was almost out at the end of 10 rounds, and suffered a small arm fracture, likely when the two got tangled up and fell down in the final round.

I think think Battling Jim was durable and strong and it showed. It's clear he wasn't a middle weight for Johnson to toy with.

The film clips show in this thread of Battling Jim vs Sam McVea show Johnson getting the better off it.

[Cap]

Johnson is definitely shorter than McVea. So Jack Johnson almost lost to a midget.

[Ambling Alp II]

He is listed at 5'9 1/2 and weighed 222 for the fight with Jack Johnson.

[margaret thatcher]

Dude was probably 5'7-5'8, obviously McVea was more than an inch taller than him and he looks very very short for a heavy

[Ambling Alp II]

In reading the book Unforgivable Blackness, is does appear Battling Jim bettered Jack Johnson.

The judging. One vote for Battling Jim, the other two judges voted a draw.

The newspaper read says Jack was almost out at the end of 10 rounds, and suffered a small arm fracture, likely when the two got tangled up and fell down in the final round.

I think think Battling Jim was durable and strong and it showed. It's clear he wasn't a middle weight for Johnson to toy with.

The film clips show in this thread of Battling Jim vs Sam McVea show Johnson getting the better off it.

I have the book and that is not really what is says. (page 354)
It says that Jack Johnson fractured his left forearm in the third round, and had to fight the rest of the fight with just one hand. It said nothing much happened in the fight. In the end , it was Jim Johnson who was breathing hard.

[pound per pound]

In reading the book Unforgivable Blackness, is does appear Battling Jim bettered Jack Johnson.

The judging. One vote for Battling Jim, the other two judges voted a draw.

The newspaper read says Jack was almost out at the end of 10 rounds, and suffered a small arm fracture, likely when the two got tangled up and fell down in the final round.

I think think Battling Jim was durable and strong and it showed. It's clear he wasn't a middle weight for Johnson to toy with.

The film clips show in this thread of Battling Jim vs Sam McVea show Johnson getting the better off it.

I have the book and that is not really what is says. (page 354)
It says that Jack Johnson fractured his left forearm in the third round, and had to fight the rest of the fight with just one hand. It said nothing much happened in the fight. In the end , it was Jim Johnson who was breathing hard.

The press said the injury could have happened during a fall with the two hitting the floor in the 10th round. Jack as weary in the final round, close to stoppage loss.