Counter-puncher wrote: ↑03 Sep 2020, 05:06
a treat for regular contributors and viewers of this thread, here's an absolute classic I never heard of before and I don't think has ever been discussed on here, Freddie Castillo vs Eleoncio Mercedes for the WBC flyweight title back in 1981, WHAT a fight:
its southpaw brawler vs the very slick skillful boxer- looking at Mercedes's style, you would swear blind he must be Panamanian, he's got that smooth style and some of his moves make him the spitting image of Pedrosa or Marcel
I didn't score it but the way the fight progressed, and the support the champion Castillo had in the building, I wasn't surprised by the S/D verdict.
Counter, as I mentioned before, this fight was quite good. Freddie Castillo defending his flyweight title against Eloncio Mercedes. Here we go.
Round 1: 10-9 Castillo
Round 2: 10-9 EM
Round 3: 10-9 EM
Round 4: 10-9 EM
Round 5: 10-9 EM
Round 6: 10-9 EM
Round 7: 10-9 EM
Round 8: 10-9 EM
Round 9: 10-9 Castillo
Round 10: 9-9 Even (1 point deducted from Mercedes for spinning his opponent)
Round 11: 10-9 EM
Round 12: 10-9 EM
Round 13: 10-9 Castillo
Round 14: 10-10 Even
Round 15: 10-9 Castillo
Total: 145-140 Mercedes (actual scores: 145-140 and 145-139 both for Mercedes and a 144-143 for Castillo)
This may be one of those fights where you might want to sit back and just enjoy it. When you look at the scorecards, you might scrutinize the scorecard for Castillo, but in actuality, it might not be that strange because this is one of those fights where you ask yourself what you are more impressed with. Cleaner punches or harder punches. I tend to lean towards clean punches, thus, my score. But an enjoyable fight. Thanks for the recommendation.
DrDuke wrote: ↑13 Sep 2020, 11:18
Roberto Duran vs Robbie Sims
1: Duran 10-9
2: Sims 10-9
3: Sims 10-9
4: Duran 10-9
5: 10-10
6: Duran 10-9
7: Duran 10-9
8: Sims 10-8 (Duran deducted a point for a low blow)
9: Duran 10-9
10: 10-10
Total score: Duran 96-95
So, here I rewatched it and I'm still going with Duran. It's interesting, that, if Duran wasn't deducted a point for a low blow, there would have officially been a draw. And the deduction was too much there, I'd say. So, yeah, Duran was robbed that night by both judges' and referee's actions.
I saw it a year or so back. This is what I wrote:
Round 1: 10-9 Duran
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Sims
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Sims
Round 6: 10-9 Duran
Round 7: 10-9 Duran
Round 8: 10-9 Sims (scored it even, but Duran lost a point for a low-blow)
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Sims
Total: 97-96 Sims (actual scores: 95-94 and 97-92 for Sims and 96-94 for Duran for a split win for Sims)
First of all - great fight! Fought in tight with beautiful, clean punches on both sides. Just felt Sims was a bit busier against the aging Duran who was puffing at the end. I had a number of even rounds but when one sees the long levels of infighting, you know why.
scartissue wrote: ↑13 Sep 2020, 15:02
First of all - great fight! Fought in tight with beautiful, clean punches on both sides. Just felt Sims was a bit busier against the aging Duran who was puffing at the end. I had a number of even rounds but when one sees the long levels of infighting, you know why.
Yeah, the fight was great. Sims was busier, right. Duran had better quality though, as he landed the biggest shots, he hurt Sims on several occasions. Some rounds were very close indeed, could be judged on different aspects.
I recently checked out the James Page v Jose Luis Lopez welterweight title fight. It was decent but very frustrating to watch for several reasons.
Round 1: 10-9 Page
Round 2: 10-9 Page
Round 3: 10-8 Lopez (scores a knockdown)
Round 4: 10-9 Lopez
Round 5: 10-9 Page
Round 6: 10-9 Page
Round 7: 10-9 Page
Round 8: 10-9 Page
Round 9: 10-8 Lopez (wins the round and receives a knockdown call, but Page clearly slipped. If I had the choice I would only give him a 10-9 but am following the ref's call)
Round 10: 10-10 Even (Tony Perez halts the contest to clean up the Budweiser logo which has turned the canvas into a skating rink, but doesn't tell the timekeeper to stop the clock and the round is about 30 seconds short)
Round 11: 10-9 Page
Round 12: 10-9 Page
Total: 115-112 Page (actual scores: 115-112, 115-111 and 116-111 all for Page)
Lopez made this very frustrating to me for simply not throwing punches. It seemed every time he threw something in earnest at Page, he hurt him. The fight was his to lose and he did an admirable job losing it. Perez screwed up big time also for that preposterous 'knockdown' in the 9th and for the abbreviated round in the 10th. The commentators seemed amazed by his screwups, but it seemed normal to me with Perez refereeing.
1: Leonard 10-9
2: Leonard 10-9
3: Leonard 10-9
4: Leonard 10-9
5: Hagler 10-9
6: Leonard 10-9
7: Hagler 10-9
8: Hagler 10-9
9: 10-10
10: Leonard 10-9
11: Leonard 10-9
12: Hagler 10-9
Total: Leonard 116-113
A great fight. A one of the most blown up robbery claims. Way too many observes had that for Hagler. Of course, there was no 118-110 edge, as a one of the official card suggests, but Leonard won it. It was competetive, but clearly in Leonard's favor.
Hagler won 9 and certainly 10..
Tim Ryan " we have it 5-4-1 Hagler"
Then after 11 " we have Leonard slightly ahead"
If there ever was a fight to watch with no volume this is it.. commentators in awe of everything ray does, crowd as well..
Ray didn't win that fight..
He was the sizzle, Hagler was the steak
Duran1970 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2020, 11:12
Hagler won 9 and certainly 10
The 9th was the most action-packed round. The most crucial moment was when Hagler trapped Leonard in the corner, unleashed a barrage of punches and troubled Leonard, but Leonard came out of the corner after that with his own barrage, which had Hagler in trouble. Thus, it was a plain brawl there, with both scoring a lot and hurting each other to about the same extent. I don't see a need in finding an edge for anyone in such situation.
The 10 was round off for both, so I don't understand the certainty about someone edgeing clearly there, but still Leonard was a bit more precise earlier and in the middle of the round, while there was even less significant stuff closer to its end.
1: Duran 10-9
2: Barkley 10-9
3: Barkley 10-9
4: Duran 10-9
5: Barkley 10-9
6: Barkley 10-9
7: Duran 10-9
8: Barkley 10-9
9: Duran 10-9
10: Duran 10-9
11: Duran 10-8
12: Duran 10-9
Total score: Duran 115-112
The last hurrah of the great warrior Duran. Barkley was good early, he was busier and worked to the body of Duran well, but somehow Barkley tired more than Duran going into the second half of the fight. It looked like not only Duran's hands were made of stone, Roberto himself proved to be made of it, as he fought back in the first half of the fight well and took over in the second one. Also, Barkley wasn't prepared for Duran's right hand, Roberto was landing it frequently since the 1st round and Barkley's left eye was already swollen pretty badly by the middle of the bout. Duran's right hand was also crucial in knocking Barkley down in the 11th. Barkley did as much as he could, but Duran was just a tough warrior, who took the fight and got better of it.
R1.10-10
R2.10-9 TM
R3.10-10
R4.10-9 MS
R5.10-9 MS
R6.10-9 MS
59-57 Marlon Starling at the end of the 6th rd. Strange ending to fight Starling had taken control of in the 5th rd. Molinares also through a combination after the bell in the 2nd. Even stranger was the rest of Molinares short career, he was stopped in his next two fights by a journeymen and guy making his debut and retired. We can only guess how the Starling bout would have played out without the KO after the bell. In my opinion, I think Marlon was going to grind him down and score a late TKO.
The first fight ever for Hearns to be outpointed legitimately. Against prime Hearns it was only possible to KO him, but here Tommy was already past it. Barkley imposed an ugly inside fight. He kept Hearns on the ropes for almost the whole fight. Hearns' corner urged Tommy to stay off the ropes, but nothing he could do. Barkley clearly outfought Hearns, mauled him and had him down in the 4th.
I saw it stated on another site somewhere that the two Greg Page v George Chaplin fights were robberies. Don't quite remember that being the case back in the day but allowing for the fact that it is about 40 years ago I thought I would have a look see. Page v Chaplin I
Round 1: 10-9 Page
Round 2: 10-10 Even (shortened round - at around 2:30 the timekeeper rang the bell)
Round 3: 10-9 Page
Round 4: 10-9 Page
Round 5: 10-9 Page
Round 6: 10-9 Chaplin
Round 7: 10-9 Page
Round 8: 10-9 Page
Round 9: 10-9 Chaplin
Round 10: 10-9 Chaplin
Total: 97-94 Page (actual scores: 99-96 and 99-94 both for Page and a 97-97 Even card for a majority win for Page)
These two were heaving behemoths by the last 2 rounds and swinging from the fences, but they gave it their all. The problem with Chaplin was he had a brilliant defense, but ya gotta throw punches. By the time he got around to that the fight was gone. I did not see a robbery here, but I will look for their 12 rounder and see if its out there to check it out.
Toney comfortably outboxed Williams in their rematch. It's a pity, that there's no full version of the first bout available, as there was a controversial draw. Well, from what it's possible to watch, Toney looked better in that fight, just a bit gased in late rounds. Yet in the rematch he was 100% ready and scored a dominant win.
I was looking for Marlon Starling v Tommy Ayers but it was nowhere to be found. I did light upon Marlon Starling v Simon Brown, however, which was fought at a high-skilled pace. Here we go.
Total: 118-112 Starling (actual scores: 115-113 and 116-112 both for Starling and 116-112 for Brown for a split decision win for Starling.
What made this a bit haywire in the scoring was the fact that, although Brown threw far more punches, Starling kept up his high peek-a-boo guard and was picking off many of them. When Starling threw, he made every one count. So it could be a bit different by the angle of the ring your on also. I felt Starling's cleaner shots took the fight, but Brown was in every round with a high volume of punches.
Sosa was tough and a very awkward mofo, but the score for him was a joke. Sosa had a jerky movement, weird bobbing and weaving, often he was coming face first and sometimes he was even openly taking shots with his face. He often was making it dirty inside. Yet Toney was masterfully outboxing Sosa. The first half of the fight was all Toney's. In the second one Toney a bit tired and lost some rounds, but still Toney won the bout clearly.
It was a great fight, action-packed and highly competetive. Yes, Nunn was looking better overall, but the officials had it too wide. I'm OK with 97-93, but 98-92 and especially 99-91 sounded quite awful and had no reflection of an actual fight at all. Toney proved there, that he was a truly great fighter, as he was pressing until he got, what he needed.
It was a great fight, action-packed and highly competetive. Yes, Nunn was looking better overall, but the officials had it too wide. I'm OK with 97-93, but 98-92 and especially 99-91 sounded quite awful and had no reflection of an actual fight at all. Toney proved there, that he was a truly great fighter, as he was pressing until he got, what he needed.
Doc, I scored it awhile back. This is how I had it:
Total: 98-94 Nunn through 10 completed rounds. You have to zone out on Dan Goosen at ringside a bit because I believe he had parted ways with Nunn by this time and more times than not when Toney landed he stated that Nunn was hurt. I do think he was very shaky at the end of the 10th though, despite the fact that I gave Nunn the round. I thought he had done so much work earlier in the round that I couldn't forget it. I think the worst thing that happened to Nunn was KOing Kalambay in the first round. He seemed to think he was a slugger. Dundee tried everything to get him moving but he stayed in close too much. Interesting fight.
1: Johnson 10-9
2: Johnson 10-8
3: Johnson 10-9
4: Toney 10-9
5: Toney 10-9
6: Toney 10-9
7: Toney 10-9
8: Toney 10-9
9: Toney 10-9
10: Johnson 10-9
11: Toney 10-9
12: Toney 10-9
Total score: Toney 115-112
Johnson had a good start, he dropped Toney in the 2nd round with a big left hand, but the score for Johnson was too much. The crowd also sucked, as it booed the dec for Toney. Actually, Toney took a control since the 4th and it was hard to give Johnson a round after that. It was a tough fight for Toney in a sense that he was down for the first time in his career and also cut for the first time, in the 12th after the headclash. Anyway, Toney clearly won a majority of rounds and even finished strong, despite being severely cut. Johnson was rocked by Toney's right hand on several occasions and he was barely down by it in the 6th, the ropes saved him. All that stuff was just a mounth after another tough fight, against Nunn, what a real deal Toney was.
Toney won it. McCallum a bit outworked Toney, but Toney was landing the biggest shots all the night. Toney didn't seem bothered by McCallum's punches, while McCallum was hurt on several occasaions. Also, Toney finished much stronger, McCallum was hurt pretty badly in the last round. It was close and competetive, but Toney looked better.
The fight was even and it was bad, because there wasn't much of boxing. They were just wrestling inside and both weren't scoring clean much. The robbery claim is blown up because of the fact of Toney himself struggling with some unknown Tiberi, but in reality Tiberi wasn't outboxing Toney or whatever. Toney wasn't prepared well, he already began to have problems with cutting to the MW limit and he did a mistake with taking a fight just in two mounths after the hard McCallum war. Toney was forced to fight Tiberi's fight and he gased after the 2nd round, but he was often looking just tired other than hurt. There were a lot of close rounds with dirty inside hustle, with both not scoring much.
DrDuke wrote: ↑20 Sep 2020, 06:58
James Toney vs Reggie Johnson
1: Johnson 10-9
2: Johnson 10-8
3: Johnson 10-9
4: Toney 10-9
5: Toney 10-9
6: Toney 10-9
7: Toney 10-9
8: Toney 10-9
9: Toney 10-9
10: Johnson 10-9
11: Toney 10-9
12: Toney 10-9
Total score: Toney 115-112
Johnson had a good start, he dropped Toney in the 2nd round with a big left hand, but the score for Johnson was too much. The crowd also sucked, as it booed the dec for Toney. Actually, Toney took a control since the 4th and it was hard to give Johnson a round after that. It was a tough fight for Toney in a sense that he was down for the first time in his career and also cut for the first time, in the 12th after the headclash. Anyway, Toney clearly won a majority of rounds and even finished strong, despite being severely cut. Johnson was rocked by Toney's right hand on several occasions and he was barely down by it in the 6th, the ropes saved him. All that stuff was just a mounth after another tough fight, against Nunn, what a real deal Toney was.
Doc, this is how I saw it and what I wrote at the time:
A fight I've wanted to look at for some time is James Toney-Reggie Johnson. A really good fight and interesting to see Toney without a wad of suet hanging over the top of his trunks. Here ya go:
Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-8 Johnson (Johnson scored a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Johnson
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Toney
Round 6: 10-9 Toney
Round 7: 10-9 Johnson
Round 8: 10-9 Toney
Round 9: 10-9 Johnson
Round 10:10-9 Toney
Round 11:10-9 Toney
Round 12:10-9 Toney
1: Toney 10-9
2: Toney 10-9
3: McCallum 10-9
4: Toney 10-9
5: Toney 10-9
6: McCallum 10-9
7: McCallum 10-9
8: 9-9 (McCallum deducted a point for holding Toney's head and hitting it)
9: McCallum 10-9
10: Toney 10-9
11: Toney 10-9
12: McCallum 10-9
Total score: Toney 114-113
If not the point deduction from McCallum for an absolutely unnecessary foul, I'd have it a draw. The fight was very close, either way going. None did any real damage. The first fight was more intense, Toney was landing some big shots there. Toney was given a too wide score in a rematch, probably judges were pro-Toney because everyone felt, that Toney had been robbed of a victory in the first bout.
Toney won it. McCallum a bit outworked Toney, but Toney was landing the biggest shots all the night. Toney didn't seem bothered by McCallum's punches, while McCallum was hurt on several occasaions. Also, Toney finished much stronger, McCallum was hurt pretty badly in the last round. It was close and competetive, but Toney looked better.
Doc, checked this out over the weekend. Here is how I had it:
Total: 116-114 Toney (actual scores: 116-112 Toney, 115-113 McCallum and 114-114 Even for a draw)
Good fight where McCallum kept the jab steadily moving and pot-shotting when he could against Toney's bombs and sporadic jabbing. Good close fight and a draw is a good decision.
We had the second half of the fight the same. Yeah, it was close, but the facts of Toney landing the biggest shots and finishing the fight more convincing, than his opponent, are big arguments. He looked like a champ, so it's good that it was at least a draw, thus Toney still retained the belt.
