Cyclone / Frampton Court Case

[Coco]

The reason the tax people turned up at Frampton house looking for £395,000 is because the mcguigans signed over the company to Frampton but didn't tell him then all of a sudden BANG £395,000 tax please ? What ever you think of Barry that is a crafty move where someone could lose everything but as long as he was alright he didn't give a to£$

I bet Barry has got all his I's dotted and t's crossed

[MarkMcBurney]

The reason the tax people turned up at Frampton house looking for £395,000 is because the mcguigans signed over the company to Frampton but didn't tell him then all of a sudden BANG £395,000 tax please ? What ever you think of Barry that is a crafty move where someone could lose everything but as long as he was alright he didn't give a to£$

I bet Barry has got all his I's dotted and t's crossed

That can't be correct, Frampton resigned as director of Cyclone Promotions on 21st July 2017. Blair, Shane, Jake and Sandra are still directors and have been since the company's incorporation in 2013. Barry actually ceased to be a director in 2015.

As for cash in the company; net assets show as just under £1m in latest accounts however the overwhelming majority of that is debtors. Cash at bank is just over £60k. I don't think Frampton can really 'win' in this.

EDIT: Looking at Frampton's other LtdCo with his wife, they have net assets of £2.6m, with all of that being cash. Carl stands to lose quite a lot if he loses this case.

[3132DW]

The reason the tax people turned up at Frampton house looking for £395,000 is because the mcguigans signed over the company to Frampton but didn't tell him then all of a sudden BANG £395,000 tax please ? What ever you think of Barry that is a crafty move where someone could lose everything but as long as he was alright he didn't give a to£$

Yeah McGuigan brought the Kinahan’s into today - don’t see that ending well either

[jameswilson]

I do worry about some of the guys on here and how much they enjoy seeing promoters take fighters to the cleaners in court.

[maverick23]

I do worry about some of the guys on here and how much they enjoy seeing promoters take fighters to the cleaners in court.

It’s part of the reason I warm a bit more to Eddie than I do FW. From what I can tell Eddie rarely gets the lawyers involved but there have been several instances with FW taking boxers to court about things - I read all of the available court documents on the Ricky Burns case and they didn’t make good reading for FW.

[coneye]

I do worry about some of the guys on here and how much they enjoy seeing promoters take fighters to the cleaners in court.

It’s part of the reason I warm a bit more to Eddie than I do FW. From what I can tell Eddie rarely gets the lawyers involved but there have been several instances with FW taking boxers to court about things - I read all of the available court documents on the Ricky Burns case and they didn’t make good reading for FW.

Although i can understand how desperate some fighters can be to hook up with a big name promoter , they will sign there life away and make a pact with the devil , I can't understand why the ones who are chased and in demand , sign with the guys who have track records of not paying , taking too court ect ect ,,,, For me if he would have you Hearn is the only way to go , never read about anyone not getting paid off him

[Ruthless-RKO]

Carl Frampton challenged over Kinahan links in his current managment company

CARL Frampton's current management company had alleged links with a suspected crime boss, the High Court heard yesterday.

As the boxer's multi-million pound legal battle with ex-manager Barry McGuigan continued, he was challenged about any connections between his new representatives and Dubliner Daniel Kinahan.

Counsel for Mr McGuigan, Liam McCollum QC, put it to Mr Frampton that MTK Global could be seen as a "front" for a criminal organisation.

"I'm not aware of that," the boxer replied.

When it was claimed that one of those allegedly involved with MTK was Kinahan, a suspected crime boss, he said: "I've heard the stories... I don't suspect anything."

Later, he added: "I don't make judgements.

"Do you believe everything you read in the papers?"

The Belfast fighter is seeking up to £6 million in alleged withheld earnings during his eight-year partnership with Mr McGuigan.

His action involves claims against Cyclone Promotions UK Ltd - of which Mr McGuigan was a director - over purse fees, broadcasting rights, ticket sales and merchandising.

A counter lawsuit has been filed against Mr Frampton for alleged breach of contact when he split from the company in 2017.

The two sports stars, who worked together for eight years, deny the respective allegations against them.

Earlier, the court heard Mr Frampton allegedly saved hundreds of thousands of dollars by under-declaring purses for contests in America.

The boxer was told it amounted to false accounting which would be classed as a criminal offence in the UK.

As cross-examination continued, he was probed about earnings from his first fight against Leo Santa Cruz in New York in July 2016, when he defeated the Mexican to claim the world featherweight title.

The court heard that his purse for the bout was 1.5m US dollars, but that only 500,000 dollars was declared.

According to Mr McCollum, it was Mr Frampton who wanted to put in the lower figure.

In reply the boxer insisted it had been a joint decision, based on advice from his ex-manager.

But the barrister maintained: "You were the one who wanted it brought down as much as possible because you were the beneficiary of it.

"That actually saved you 300,000 dollars.

"When you sign the document for that purse, you knew that signing a document saying your purse was 500,000 dollars was a lie."

Mr Frampton replied: "I knew that, but my team also knew that."

At that point Mr Justice Huddleston said wanted to "get to the bottom of this".

"Whether it's for Mr Frampton or for his advisers, that is on my long list of questions coming up."

Following the judicial intervention Mr McCollum continued by submitting that the fighter had realised his declared earnings were untrue.

"You knew that someone was going to ask you for less money as a result of that," he said.

Mr Frampton insisted it only related to America, and that he paid his taxes in the UK.

But the barrister told him: "You know that was dishonest, and in fact if that was in this country it would be a criminal offence."

"In this country, of you falsely account about something, dishonesty, that is a criminal offence. It's called false accounting. You did that."

Earlier in the case, Mr Frampton said the final straw in his deteriorating relationship with Mr McGuigan came when he received a VAT bill for almost £400,000.

But according to Mr McCollum, Cyclone Promotions had regularly advised him of his tax responsibilities.

He told the fighter: "You're a big boy, Mr Frampton, it's up to you to look after your VAT."

The case continues.

[Noxy]

"You're a big boy" What does that mean?! It sounds like bluster.

[Ruthless-RKO]

"You're a big boy" What does that mean?! It sounds like bluster.

That's the kind of crap they say in courts..

[Coco]

I wonder how many fighter can understate there foreign purse for tax purposes?

Also going back to the Hearns, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about them over money.

[Noxy]

I wonder how many fighter can understate there foreign purse for tax purposes?

Also going back to the Hearns, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about them over money.

Indeed, good point re Matchroom.

[mickey1975]

I wonder how many fighter can understate there foreign purse for tax purposes?

Also going back to the Hearns, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about them over money.

I have. Not bad paying, but bad purses, especially on undercards.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I wonder how many fighter can understate there foreign purse for tax purposes?

Also going back to the Hearns, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about them over money.

I have. Not bad paying, but bad purses, especially on undercards.

But they get paid? Paid on time?

Some boxers don't even get what they're promised..

[jonp]

I wonder how many fighter can understate there foreign purse for tax purposes?

Also going back to the Hearns, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about them over money.

I have. Not bad paying, but bad purses, especially on undercards.

People will always moan over wages but if you know the wage and box for it its no good moaning afterwards.If nobody boxed for those wages then they would have to up them. In every dealing iv had with matchroom the money is sorted well beforehand and its always on time and commision exs etc are always there straight awaywith no questions.

[3132DW]

I wonder how many fighter can understate there foreign purse for tax purposes?

Also going back to the Hearns, I've never heard anyone say a bad word about them over money.

I have. Not bad paying, but bad purses, especially on undercards.

But they get paid? Paid on time?

Some boxers don't even get what they're promised..

Exactly....dozens of fighters have went unpaid - the Ricky Burns story above he was owed £234,000 and cheques bounced one after the other.

Promotors should on proof of non payment be made - be struck off or made to put monies in escrow so fighters are protected or paid to BBBoC and distributed by them.

To many guys actually taking the risks don’t get their money.

[TheLeprechaun]

Frampton has come off badly so far for me. I don't think he has any chance of winning and he'll probably be forced to pay out to Barry.

[coneye]

Frampton has come off badly so far for me. I don't think he has any chance of winning and he'll probably be forced to pay out to Barry.

Certainly sounds like he's gonna get his ass spanked here , he definetly does'nt sound the sharpest tool in the shed ,, But i think it also paints the Mcguigans in a very bad light , and they have simply been too smart for Frampton ,,, which unfortunatly seems to happen often ,, Becuase when Barrys kids were at school learning to be smart ,, Frampton was in the gym learning to box ,

Don't know how true , but read on another site , Frampton originally got the hump , when he learnt all the Mcguigans and there wifes, girlfreinds were paying restraunt bills , drinks , hotels , ect with Cyclone money

[Coco]

Frampton has come off badly so far for me. I don't think he has any chance of winning and he'll probably be forced to pay out to Barry.

Certainly sounds like he's gonna get his ass spanked here , he definetly does'nt sound the sharpest tool in the shed ,, But i think it also paints the Mcguigans in a very bad light , and they have simply been too smart for Frampton ,,, which unfortunatly seems to happen often ,, Becuase when Barrys kids were at school learning to be smart ,, Frampton was in the gym learning to box ,

Don't know how true , but read on another site , Frampton originally got the hump , when he learnt all the Mcguigans and there wifes, girlfreinds were paying restraunt bills , drinks , hotels , ect with Cyclone money

But I guess in legal terms they were all working

[coneye]

Frampton has come off badly so far for me. I don't think he has any chance of winning and he'll probably be forced to pay out to Barry.

Certainly sounds like he's gonna get his ass spanked here , he definetly does'nt sound the sharpest tool in the shed ,, But i think it also paints the Mcguigans in a very bad light , and they have simply been too smart for Frampton ,,, which unfortunatly seems to happen often ,, Becuase when Barrys kids were at school learning to be smart ,, Frampton was in the gym learning to box ,

Don't know how true , but read on another site , Frampton originally got the hump , when he learnt all the Mcguigans and there wifes, girlfreinds were paying restraunt bills , drinks , hotels , ect with Cyclone money

But I guess in legal terms they were all working

Probably ,,,, Really hope its not the case but it does sound like Frampton is stuffed . Turned over by the Mcguigans ,,, now a lawyer who has'nt said , save your money you will lose ,,, I'm no legal eagle but it does'nt sound good for Frampton ,,,, Admitting he lied to the taxman , because Barry told him too ,,, Deary me someone was at the back of the que when brains were dished out

[Twinkle Toes]

Frampton has been so stupid. I've heard him talk about off boxing topics, and he'e very opinionated on certain issues, to the point of intolerant. I'm not surprised he has gone into this thinking it will be a walk in the park. I would normally be rooting for the boxer 100% but a lot of his case is full of holes.

He had asked team McGuigan to forge his signature on a contract, not declared full purses. The list goes on. McGuigan is no angel, but Frampton is being made to look a fool

[Noxy]

The McGuigans haven’t been questioned yet though have they.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Carl Frampton's accountant tells court that tax claims are 'nonsense'

Boxer Carl Frampton did not gain "a single cent" in tax savings from title bouts in America, the High Court heard today.

The former world champion's accountant also told of his shock at discovering a company in which the fighter was a director had allegedly racked up losses of £500,000.

Tax arrangements for shows staged in the United States came under scrutiny on day seven of Mr Frampton's legal battle with ex-manager Barry McGuigan.

The 33-year-old Belfast boxer is seeking £6 million in alleged withheld earnings during their eight-year partnership.

His action involves claims against Cyclone Promotions UK Ltd - of which Mr McGuigan was a director - over purse fees, broadcasting rights, ticket sales and merchandising.

A counter lawsuit has been filed against Mr Frampton, accusing him of breach of contact when he split from the company in 2017.

The two sports stars deny the respective allegations.

Earlier in the hearing it was claimed that Mr Frampton saved hundreds of thousands of dollars by under-declaring purses from contests in America.

They included two fights against the Mexican Leo Santa Cruz: in New York in July 2016, and the rematch in Las Vegas the following February.

In court today accountant Sean McCrory, who Mr Frampton enlisted in 2016, was questioned about arrangements on witholding tax - a charge on income received by non-residents.

He told counsel for Mr McGuigan, Liam McCollum QC, that the boxer still had to pay higher rate income tax in the United Kingdom.

"He hasn't gained a single cent in tax savings in the USA," Mr McCrory insisted.

"He's taxed at source in the USA, but in the UK he's liable to tax on his worldwide income."

During exchanges Mr McCollum and the accountant disputed whether the withholding tax had been added on to a figure of just over 1.1m US dollars.

It was claimed that up to 336,000 dollars more should have been declared as income.

But Mr McCrory repeated firmly: "That is nonsense."

Mr Frampton's action centres on an alleged conflict of interest between Mr McGuigan's twin role as manager and promoter.

He further claims that he was persuaded to sign as a director of another Northern Ireland-based Cyclone company on the promise of a 30% profit share which was never received.

According to Mr Frampton's case the final straw in his deteriorating relationship with Mr McGuigan came when the taxman called at his home in the summer of 2017 with a bill for nearly £400,000.

Mr McCrory told the court how he studied the Northern Ireland Cyclone company's previous accounts after becoming involved with the boxer.

"The accumulative losses as of June 2015 were £300,000," he said.

He was asked if he had brought the issue to the attention of anyone at Cyclone during correspondence.

"I deliberately didn't raise that, I wanted to attend a meeting," he answered.

"I kept it up my sleeve."

Mr McCollum put it to him that the alleged losses were not flagged up by Mr Frampton until May 2017.

The accountant responded that there were two big world title fights against Scott Quigg and Santa Cruz in the intervening period.

"I would have expected the financial situation at that stage to have improved," he said.

"They were two massive fights... those are the fights you make your money out of."

Pressed by counsel to explain any delay in highlighting the company's alleged money troubles, he said: "I strongly suspected the financial situation since June 2015 had strongly improved."

Mr McCrory explained that by the time accounts were filed in June 2016 the Quigg contest had been staged at the Manchester Arena.

"I was shocked that a £300,000 loss was now sitting at a £500,000 loss," he said.

The hearing continues.

[steve689]

The reason the tax people turned up at Frampton house looking for £395,000 is because the mcguigans signed over the company to Frampton but didn't tell him then all of a sudden BANG £395,000 tax please ? What ever you think of Barry that is a crafty move where someone could lose everything but as long as he was alright he didn't give a to£$

I bet Barry has got all his I's dotted and t's crossed

I worked briefly for him years ago. 100% he will do.

[TopGun]

This is fascinating thread to read....its not going o end well is it!

[Ruthless-RKO]

This is fascinating thread to read....its not going o end well is it!

I'm trying to update it with all the latest court dates