Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Fill It Up With Stuff

I still cross the border into Mexico,but unless it's something really important I don't like going down there.Something family related yes,but just to go shopping , out to eat somewhere,or just roaming around forget it.I went down there the other day,a Wednesday,that way there's less waiting time at the border coming back. It's not like there' less traffic,but our government has assigned fewer guards at the crossing stations going back into the U.S.That makes waiting in line a lot longer. The weekends are really bad. Not so much wait time during the middle of the week.

I went to a farmacia to get some pain pills for my bum hips. I got the insurance on this side,but that means i have to make an appointment with the doc,pay the co pay, and get a prescription in order to buy the pills. And then it's only for a certain amount of pills. In TJ I can buy the same pills (as many as I want),forget making an appointment with a doctor,and then having to go to my HMO's pharmacy to buy the pills.I can go to any drugstore in TJ and they have the same pills,and to boot, the pills are cheaper than buying them up here..

The farmacia where I went is about a half mile from the CREA gym in the Rio section of town. That's where Romulo Quirarte has been training fighters (and anyone else who wants to get his exercise in by boxing) for more than 30 years.After getting the pills I took a swing by the CREA field. It's a big complex run by the state of Baja California. It's got a soccer field,some basketball courts,and once tie had a swimming pool but now it's filled with cement.Over the years they've let the place go down. The grass is dead on the soccer field. The basketball hoops don't have nets anymore. There are broken windows on some of the buildings, graffiti all over the place,and trash on the ground. The last time I visited the boxing gym it was OK but that's because Quirarte makes sure he doesn't let the place slide.

I parked my car on the street.I'd say it was around noon.There's no parking lot at the CREA so finding a place o park is hard.The only places are on the street and i think some of those cars that are parked there have been camped there for months. Probably people living in those cars. I got to the gate and there was the security guard. I don't know what he was guarding because there couldn't have been more than a half dozen people inside the complex when I looked. A few people were jogging around the dirt track that circled the soccer field and I saw some kids shooting baskets on one the courts.The court surfaces were coming apart badly in need of being resurfaced. But i can imagine that that project was not high on the facility's priority list. I began talking to the guard.
"Is the boxing gym open?"I asked him.
He was a squat dark skinned guy with Indian features and needed a shave and a haircut. He was wearing a uniform that looked two sizes too big for him. The sleeves were frayed and his shoes were scuffed. He had a can of Coke next to him on a chair.
"No amigo. The gym has been closed for a long time,"he answered calmly.
"You know when it's going to re open?"
"They say at the end on the month but who knows?"
"Is Romulo Quirarte still around?"
"I don't know,"said the guard grabbing the Coke can."I haven't seen him for more than five months."
"The gym was his life,"I said. "He really liked working with the kids. It kept them out of trouble. If the gym doesn't re open what will he do?"
"I don't know amigo. He'll just have to wait."
The guard took off his hat and began wiping his forehead with a handkerchief.
"I remember years ago I used to come here and see some pretty good fighters." I said. Napoles,Olivares,Chavez,Now he doesn't have any good fighters anymore. They've all gone to the United States."
"This virus has really messed things up "said the guard..
"They say there will be a vaccine by November."
"They say a lot of things and then they change their minds the next day.Who knows anymore? You don't know what to believe."
"It'll hurt Quirarte if they don't re open the gym,"I said.
"And if they don't he'll have to find something else."
"I wonder if he'll stay with boxing?"
"Who knows?All I know is life is only so long and anything can happen. In the meantime you just have to fill it up with stuff."


Romulo Quirarte

[dagosd2000]

147 Pounds Then And Now

You can certainly make a case that athletes have evolved over the last 50 years or so and they can out perform their ancient counterparts. Baseball players are better today than the "niners" during Babe Ruth's time. The Babe swung a 40 ounce bat back then, however there wasn't a pitcher ,with maybe the exception of Walter Johnson,that could muster up more than 80 mph on his fastball. I once had a short conversation with Marc Grant the San Diego Padre announcer who pitched in majors in the 70's.He told me that all they wanted him to do was throw the ball as hard as he could for a strike anywhere in the zone.Not like today where they've studied the batters on film and know "where" to pitch him.Basketball players run up and down the court like Olympic relay teams ,and then you think of how the early hoopsters would carefully dribble the ball down court,perhaps set up a screen,and then someone would aim and take a two hand set shot. Johnny Unitas wearing his high top black football shoes with the big clumpy cleats would get the ball from center ,stagger back as fast his gawky legs could take him into the pocket, and wind up slinging the pigskin to Ray Berry for a ten yard gain on a down and out. Tom Landry, the great coach of the Dallas Cowboys, had a rule that he didn't want any of his offensive linemen weighing over 250 pounds because he wanted them fast enough to pull on sweeps.Today if a player shows up for the preseason camp and weighs 250 pounds they put him with the linebackers ,and only if his 40 yard time is 4.5 seconds or less.The game had passed Landry by and he couldn't see itJust a few examples that sports are played better today because the athletes are better. There's all the methodology behind it. The physiology,nutrition,the breaking down of film,the off season training,and the biggest factor-the work inside the weight room. And the coaches know so much more. They have everything broken down to a science.It's almost across the board with sports that today you get more quality,but then you pay for it.

But when I think about boxing there's a snag when it comes assessing then and now and if the sport has progressed very much ,or maybe back peddled a bit.One of the things that you have to take into account is that boxing is regimented into weight categories although every division has its "junior" and "super" adjuncts added. A welterweight in Ray Robinson's day weighed the same as his contemporary counterpart Floyd Mayweather. So now the debate heats up and gets down to trying to pin point the reasons why it's better,worse,or just "no opinion 'when stating the mythical question-Is boxing better today than it was way back when? "Way back when" might mean to some the turn into the start of the 20th century or maybe retreating back to the 40's,50's 60's and 70's. I think boxing's hey day was the 40's through the 70's, not counting the great fighters afterwards who are the exceptions. For me, the great fighters have been a dwindling breed.

The question was asked the other day if Mando Muniz could stay with today's 147 pounders,the good ones of course. Mando was a ranked fighter who fought the best of his day.He didn't always win.(Unfortunately he was a part on the losing end of one of the biggest robberies in boxing when he got DQ'd in Acapulco trying to wrest the welterweight title from Jose Napoles. In my mind he "won" that fight and also in my brain he "was" the welterweight champion of the world.I equate something like what happened to Muniz with the O.J Simpson trial. Yeah,the jury found him not guilty so I guess he didn't kill those people.) So what kind of a talent was Mando Muniz? He looked crude in a way,He plugged along and liked to pressure his guy. He was an "action fighter." But if you look at the fighters today,Mando Muniz was more skilled and sound in the ring than most welterweights you see fighting for some phantom title. Crawford and Spence are good boxers but their victims in the ring wouldn't have placed in the top ten during Mando's time when he was fighting the likes of Emile Griffith,Indian Red Lopez,Hedgemon Lewis,Carlos Palomino,Angel Espada,Adolph Pruitt,Ray Leonard.and Jose Naploles.Crawford,Spence,and Shawn Porter would have their gloves full with those boys. The only welter today who would be up there with those names I mentioned would be Manny Pacquiao. But he's so far pat his prime. He wouldn't have gotten away with that during Mando's time.

So where's the big difference? I mentioned a few weeks ago about the emphasis on hand speed and loading up with every punch as the the fighters want to do today.. Though the hands are faster the feet are slower. That's a Huge difference.Fighters today come out of their corners, move to the center of the ring, and open their feet wide apart,and then work. That foot spread is to get more power on their punches.They flatten out. The hands are fast but 90 % of those blows either don't connect or the leverage is off and they don't get the full thrust behind the punch. That's because their feet are all screwed up. Ok.Call me a sentimental slob,but when i think of the beautiful fluid movements of a Sugar Ray Robinson,Kid Gavilan, Louie Rodriguez,a Denny Moyer,Emile Griffith,Jose Napoles,and later Ray Leonard, and even Duran before Leonard II.Add Tommy Hearns.Even non title holders:Gaspar Ortega,Eddie Perkins(I know junior welter champ),or Clyde Gray. They had skills. They were complete fighters. They had trainers who knew what they were doing,possessed the knowledge, and could pass it on.

Look,I'll be the first to admit that baseball,basketball,and football have progressed light years ahead of those bygone days when if you had a rookie card of Mickey Mantle and used it with a clothes pin to put on the spokes of your Schwinn Sting Ray to make it sound like motorcycle,that today if you still had that card and hadn't attached it to the spokes of your bike,you could buy yourself a new car. But Mickey Mantle wouldn't put up the kind of numbers like he did back then,but today Mando Muniz would have a title belt he could hang above his mantle in the living room.


Kid Gavilan

[goose 5]

Ike Williams, back in the early 1990's said" today's fighters are at least as good as the fighters of my day, but the art of boxing is dead." Your comment, Roger, about fast hands with slow feet is dead on. I also think that he "modern style" that you describe is a result of fighters not fighting nearly as frequently as in earlier eras. Having to fight much more often would necessitate developing better skills, if the trainers were around who could teach those skills.

as for football, which I don't follow, I remember reading that Jack Tatum was decades ahead of his time in that he played at about 218 lbs. in a position where the other players were much less at that time. Am I correct, that even today, Tatum would be considered a good size player for his position ?

[dagosd2000]

Ike Williams, back in the early 1990's said" today's fighters are at least as good as the fighters of my day, but the art of boxing is dead." Your comment, Roger, about fast hands with slow feet is dead on. I also think that he "modern style" that you describe is a result of fighters not fighting nearly as frequently as in earlier eras. Having to fight much more often would necessitate developing better skills, if the trainers were around who could teach those skills.

as for football, which I don't follow, I remember reading that Jack Tatum was decades ahead of his time in that he played at about 218 lbs. in a position where the other players were much less at that time. Am I correct, that even today, Tatum would be considered a good size player for his position ?

Goose
To get Tatum out of the way. With all the different schemes they have on offense and defense I think he'd land a spot.Yes,he would be a VERY big cornerback.That might affect his speed so they could play him at safety or linebacker.

To get back to boxing.The infrequency of fights definitely slows the development of a fighter's skills. And the trainers?I've been to a few gyms in San Diego and Tijuana. With the exception of Romulo Quirarte, who trains fighters at the CREA in Tijuana, I see these guys as being neophytes. Most of them are young,maybe they've sparred in the gym,even boxed some pro,but the most important aspect is that they never studied to learn the art.But they they figure everyone else in the gym doesn't know anything either so they go on with the charade.Making you a boxer doesn't translate into being a trainer,at least a good one. Ray Arcel never boxed but he immersed himself around people who could mentor him and he soaked up their expertise like a sponge.. Today's trainer in the gym is often a sad sight to see. He throws out his chest and postulates about how to box but it's all wind and smoke. His fighters hang on every word but the rhetoric is a facade.Then these fighters get into hot water in a fight and their trainer can only come up with something like,"C'mon baby.You gotta win these last two rounds to win the fight."Where's the teachi



Romulo Quirarte sharing his know how at a sparring session at the CREA

[dagosd2000]

Goose
One thing I forgot about Tatum .He played cornerback in an era when the DB's could bump the receivers all the way down field until the ball was in the air. Can't do that anymore. Makes me think Tatum wouldn't be used at corner today. Like i said-safety or linebacker most likely.

[goose 5]

Roger: you might find this football/boxing connection interesting. Jack Kearns Jr., whom I've mentioned I knew, was offered a contract by the Green Bay Packers in the late 50's, despite never having played organized ball. He went to an open tryout and ran the 40 in 4.6 at 185 lbs. He turned it down because it paid a pittance.

[dagosd2000]

All Fighters Get headaches

When you talk about the familiar pug faces on the tube during the 1950's the Cuban expatriate Benny "The Kid" Paret's name comes up 9 out of 10 times.Remember,there were fights on the TV three nights a week.It began hurting the small venues but for the fans it was a godsend. Instead of going down to the local arena and shelling out their hard earned dough boxing nuts could stay home, open a cold beer, take a sit in their easy chair, and watch the likes of the best fighters of that decade-and I mean there were plenty of them. Then remember too that not every burg had a fight arena and a weekly card.Now with the fights on television you didn't have to burn a tank of gas and drive home late at night hoping you didn't fall asleep at the wheel or get pulled over for a DUI.Getting back to some of those famous names. It wasn't like there was an elite group that you had to go down to the movie house and watch them fight on some big fuzzy screen the images projected from some crude opaque machine.Cus D'Amato had the heavyweight champ Floyd Patterson under his control and the promoters were making you go to the Bijou and fork over ten bucks to see Floyd fight.it began with Patterson fighting Ingo The Bingo in a three fight series that was very exciting. However, the spin doctors knew that there were plenty of nutty boxing fans who would tell their wives that for dinner they'd have to settle for a rump roast instead of a Porterhouse at the dinner table that week Floyd and Ingemar could settle things. But think of it? Ray Robinson.Kid Gavilan.Joe Brown. Emile Griffith. Denny Moyer. Archie Moore.Harold Johnson.Gaspar Ortega.Gene Fullmer.Joey Giardello.Carmen Basilio.Luis Rodriguez.Dick Tiger. Tony DeMarco.Sonny Liston.Zora Folley. Doug Jones.Cleveland Williams. Eddie Machen. You could watch these guys like they were guests in your living room -and for free!

Benny Paret was no doubt an action fighter.It seemed in those days fighters had to give the fans their money's worth or if they stalled around the next time they'd be fighting in Bum F--k,Idaho . There'd be no TV money and no TV period. Madison Square Garden and the ballparks in New York were very particular about who they matched in the ring. If you failed in New York the prestige and the big purses would would vanish before you got to the locker room. Benny Paret off to a rolling start and took advantage of it in the Garden by defeating Charley Scott in a two fight series both at bouts MSG. And we got to see it on the old Dupont.

Scott was on a hot steak beating Isaac Logart twice,Ralph Dupas,and disposing of the number one challenger "Sugar" Hart in nine frames in Philly. Their fight was not for any title,but since both boys were from the City Of Brotherly Love they decided they wanted to "kill" each other in the ring so the winner could stand on the corner the next day and brag about being the baddest ass next to the Liberty Bell..

Scott looked like he was in line to fight a tenuous Don Jordan for the welterweight title but Garden matchmaker Teddy Brenner knew he couldn't lose putting Scott and Paret together before Jordan would be taken out.

Both fighters had similar styles which translated into not so much "style" as relentless attacking ,trading punches toe to toe in an ebb and flow whirlwind of action.Both fights were sensational with Benny getting his hand raised both times in very close, but fair scoring.

But Brenner didn't want to rush his cash cow Cuban into a fight with Jordan just yet. A 'title eliminator' was in store for Benny and his opponent was another one of those familiar Friday night fight faces by the name of Federico Thompson a veteran of over a hundred fights.It was a very tough fight as usual for Benny and he could only muster up the draw.But now it was time for Paret(or there were a half dozen other welterweights who could fill arenas faster than Don Jordan) to do battle for the big prize.

Paret won the title from Jordan in Las Vegas, i would say he accomplished it easily, but the fight lacked the spark usually connoted with a Paret fight. That's because Don Jordan didn't want to put it all on the line.He never did. So he went back to his Twilight Zone winning only two more fights in his next sixteen.

There's a very interesting caveat prior to him winning the title from Jordan. After the Thompson fight Paret went to his trainer Caron Gonzalez and said he was experiencing headaches and blurred vision. Gonzalez then went to Paret's manager Manual Alfaro and told him that Paret shouldn't fight anymore and retire. Alfaro told Gonzalez to go back and tell Benny "All fighters get headaches" and not to worry about it.Gonzalez to his credit walked away, but Paret wanted to go on fighting,win the championship,defend a few times,and then retire with some money in the bank.In the meantime Gonzalez doesn't tell anyone about Paret's health problems.Maybe he should have. Enrique Encinosa tells of this episode in his book "Hard Leather A History Of Cuban Boxing.

Well,it didn't get easier for Paret after that.Yes ,he beat Jordan but now he was facing his hardest fights.He whips "Sugar" 'Hart in a defense,but then drops one to Denny Moyer in a non title go. Then it's another fight with Thompson for all the marbles and another close fight.This time Benny on top. Gaspar Ortega is next and Paret comes up short in a decision but he doesn't have his belt up for grabs. I'm watching these fights on TV and something tells me that Paret is wearing down. I mean he ain't in there with no stiffs and he's taking a lot of shots.

Waiting in the wings is a kid by the name of Emile Griffith. He's emerging as a guy who's practically impossible to beat. Another cyclone with gloves on just like like Benny. They're paired in Miami and Emile is just too strong for him winning the crown via KO.Paret was really a blown up lightweight who was making more money in fights weighing in at 147 pounds.The rematch with Emile is a natural and this time in The Garden Benny nips him at the finish line recapturing what he had lost prior. Then his manager,who knows about the hurt inside Benny's head,has the audacity to put him in there with Gene Fullmer,a big genuine middleweight and also the champ at 160. In a brutal fight ,which i thought Paret might not come out of it alive, he was pummeled into submission in ten rounds.But it was Paret's next fight,again with Griffith, that we saw Benny sagging on the ropes in the corner, eyes closed,Ruby Goldstein letting it go a click too long.Don Dunphy saying that Mrs. Paret shouldn't worry.That he'd be all right again. it was a sincere gesture but a futile one.

So Alfaro said that 'All fighters get headaches."if that's so why were you in the damn business?Just to make money with these guys?You're supposed to look out for your fighters just like Marlon Brando said. to his brother.Boxing isn't cockfighting or fights with dogs. Those sports are outlawed here(except in a few moronic states).There was a cry after that fight to ban the sport. But there were two factors that stood in the way that from that ever happening. One was another fighter who was capturing not only the boxing audience but making fans who didn't know the difference between boxing and Boxing Day. He turned boxing and the world on its ear.His name was Cassius Clay. The other ingredient was an inherent part of the human element.Jerry Quarry's wife, when asked what her thoughts were after her husband died from dementia, and perhaps maybe banning the sport, stated very succinctly."As long as there are men there will always be boxing."


Benny Paret

[dagosd2000]

Roger: you might find this football/boxing connection interesting. Jack Kearns Jr., whom I've mentioned I knew, was offered a contract by the Green Bay Packers in the late 50's, despite never having played organized ball. He went to an open tryout and ran the 40 in 4.6 at 185 lbs. He turned it down because it paid a pittance.

Goose
Pro athletes back then didn't make much money. I'm thinking an open tryout. He's not a draft pick.Never played pro ball. They liked what they saw in the tryout so the probably offered him few thousand dollars if he made the cut..A kid coming into the game with no experience means they have to teach him the game from the ground up. They don't have time to spend with all that. Basics that the other players already know.In the late 50's Green Bay was the worst team in football. This was before they hired Vince Lombardi.

When I was a kid in Chicago the Bears drafted a kid named Rick Casares in the 2nd round. He was a fullback. Around 6 ft and small change and 230 pounds. He was a load.They offered him 7 grand. The Toronto Argonauts in the Canadian Football League wanted to give him 20 thousand.But Casares opted to play for the Bears because he wanted to play for the famous George Halas who owned and coached the team. Casares was also a Golden Gloves champ in New jersey winning the middleweight title when he was 15. The promoters back east wanted to sign him but Casares' mother didn't want him to be a fighter so he played football. Casares retired from football in 1964.

When the New Orleans Saints entered the NFL in 1965 their training camp was in San Diego at the school I was attending,a small college named California Western.The Saints had an open tryout. I was on the college team and decided to give it a shot. I was cut the first day before the start of the afternoon practice. One of the players on the Saints was a guy named Doug Atkins. He had played for the Bears and was an All Pro. Even by today's standards he was a monster-6ft. 7in. 270 pounds and not an ounce of fat-all muscle.By the time he got to The Saints he was in the twilight of his career. Before I cleared out my locker i told him that i was a big fan of his. He played on the NFL championship team in 1963.( In those days the NFL and the AFL were still separated and didn't play each other.The San Diego Chargers that year won the AFL championship.The Chargers had a very potent offense.The Bears that year set a record for allowing the fewest points in a season.I would have loved to have seen those two teams play for all the marbles)Anyway,I told Atkins that I thought he was the toughest dude on the Bears.
"I'll tell you who was the toughest dude,"he came back with."And it wasn't me. It was Rick Casares.No one f---ed with him."

I sometimes wonder if Casares hadn't listened to his mother and pursued boxing
".In this corner Muhammad Ali.And in this corner, Rick Casares."
Put that up in the mythical fight category.

[dagosd2000]

Building The Watch

So Goose posts about him knowing Doc Kearns' son and how he got a tryout with the Green Bay Packers and of course I respond with something just less than a novelette. But my now you know me well enough to know If you ask me the time I'll tell you how they built the watch.

After going on about the time I went to that open tryout for the New Orleans Saints, I went back to double check a few things. First of all I got the year wrong. It must have been 1967 instead of 1965 like i said. The first year the Saints were in the league was 1967. I was on that college football team whose field was where the Saints held that tryout. My teammate(and goomba) Leonard DeSanti was also on that team with me, We'd played ball at the same high school,Point Loma High, that was located about a mile down the road from where that college,California Western University, was located.It was Leonard who inspired me(begged me) to join him in that attempt to see if we had what it took to make the Saints roster. Well,like i said yesterday,I lasted half a practice on that first day. By lunchtime I was at the MacDonald's ordering a Big Mac.Leonard survived the whole day making it through to the second practice, but then when he returned to the locker room he saw his name on the "cut list' that was posted on the bulletin board.I think the only reason they gave Leonard another look was because he was big.He had the height and the weight of an NFL lineman ,but when it came to the running part when they timed him in the 60 yard dash...well it was like that old joke.

"If I was to race my pregnant sister I'd come in third."

I went to the internet to look at the guys that played on that '67 Saints team.The Saints were new to the league. They were an expansion team. All the other teams had to cough up the players they didn't want to resign and hand them over to the Saints. Most of that had to do with those players not being able to stick on anymore mainly because they weren't good enough. However there were a few guys that were holding out for more money and their teams didn't think they were worth the dough. Jim Taylor,who played full back on those glory Green Bay Packer teams,found himself wearing a Saints jersey when Vince Lombardi,who was also the GM and him couldn't come to terms on a contract. Doug Atkins,who i talked about yesterday,was past his prime with the Chicago Bears and had they felt a fresher face would do them better.

I thought that that Saints team didn't win a game that year,but I was wrong again.They won three. They still wound up in the cellar though. So here I am saying that I lasted three hours with the worst team in the NFL so where does that put me? Lower than whale poop at the bottom of the ocean. it wasn't like i had been cut from the team that won the Super Bowl,The Kansas City Chiefs. No, I got cut from a team that I can honestly say that maybe with the exception of one or two guys the rest of that squad wouldn't have seen their names in the program of the worst team in the NFL today. Maybe Jim Taylor,but maybe not. Doug Atkins,even when he was at his best couldn't have played at defensive end,his position with the Bears. He was too slow. Maybe they'd move him inside over a guard or a tackle,but he didn't have the leg speed to play on the edge. The lack of speed would have been the most common factor to eliminate those guys.

Then i got to thinking of Charlie Powell. He was one of those 3 letter men in high school. At San Diego High School in the early 50's he was all everything in football,track,and baseball. He didn't go to college though every college wanted him on their campus. He signed on with the San Francisco 49ers of the American football Conference and in one game he sacked bobby Layne ,who was the QB for the NFL champs the Detroit Lions, nine times! In those days they didn't keep track of quarterback sacks,but I've never heard of a player ever coming close to that number in a game.

But Charlie had his heart set on being a prizefighter. His claim to fame was KO ing of the number two heavyweight Nino Valdes in two rounds,but after that Powell disappointed.After Valdes his career caromed around like a billiard ball. He lost big to Patterson and Ali and a lot of lesser guys. His fight with Mike DeJohn is on YouTube.Tell me if that fight didn't have an odor about it?

Charlie's younger brother,Art,played wide out with the New York Titans(later they changed their name to the Jets)and the Oakland Raiders. He was in the top two or three best receivers in the game, He made a lot of the "All Decade" teams as a starter.Yeah,I think if Charlie would have stayed with football he would have been on some of those "All Decade" teams like his brother Art.

I saw charlie lose to Patterson on the tube. Floyd was just too fast(getting back to that speed thing again)for Charlie.Rocky Marciano was thinking of a comeback at that time. He was considering taking off his pants again to fight the winner of the three fight series between Patterson and Johansson.When Floyd prevailed Rocky decided no. I couldn't figure why. Floyd had a weak chin.He could box and his hands were fast ,but Rocky always had beaten the "cuties" before. Better boxers like Charles,Walcott,and Moore thought they'd tie Marciano in knots but it was Rocky who tied the nooses around their necks. I thought Patterson would wind up the same way. But then again,Rocky had been away from the sport for five years.All he had to do is look at all those great heavyweights who returned after saying good by and see what happened.

When i was a little kid in Chicago I remember watching Marciano fight Louis. The whole dago neighborhood was watching that one. it was hard to believe afterwards that Louis was the favorite going into that fight. In fact, Joe Louis was the favorite in all his fights.They said in spite of Marciano never losing that he built his rep on the old bones of washed up fighters-Charles,Louis,Walcott. That's par.Today, everyone is wanting to say something negative. Find the flaw that debunks immortality. They said the same things about Louis fighting has beens-Sharkey,Carnera,Braddock.And then there was the "Bum Of The Month" club.

Even Jesus couldn't escape the wrath. Think of it. We killed God.Not "me" personally,but they even found flaws in HIM.

Now how in the hell did I get started on this jag?Someone must have asked me for the time.


Charlie Powell

[goose 5]

Great stuff, Roger-your posts can't be too long: I dig your writing a lot. Yes, it was an open tryout that Kearns Jr. had-that was the term he used.

[dagosd2000]

Great stuff, Roger-your posts can't be too long: I dig your writing a lot. Yes, it was an open tryout that Kearns Jr. had-that was the term he used.

Thanks Goose
It's usually the last place teams or the expansion teams that have these open tryouts.They're usually pretty desperate.I told you about the newly formed MLB San Diego Padres having an open camp. i went. The Saints were new to the NFL.I went to their open camp too.The World Series champs and the Super Bowl winners don't have these kind of tryouts. They're already stacked.But I'll tell you another sport that's open to new faces-boxing. When Ken Norton was looking for some fresh meat to spar with one afternoon i was served up to him.

Excuse me if I look at my watch again. I was talking about Benny Paret getting those headaches and blurred vision after his fight with Federico Thompson. He went to his trainer who went to his manager and told him about Paret. He was told not to worry about it. "All fighters get headaches."Well, I'd get headaches after I would spar in the ring. When Norton got done with me i had a terrible headache the next day. That decided it for me brother. I'd play a sport that has a helmet instead.

[dagosd2000]

All Piss And Vinegar

When I was looking over that 1967 New Orleans Saints roster the other day I saw to my surprise that one of the coaches on that staff was a fella' by the name of George Dickson.I didn't last long enough at that tryout camp to have a cup of coffee so by the time they gave my locker to someone else I was back down at the beach playing in the water.My pro footbal experience doing a deep six. When I was working on getting my teaching degree i was hired as an assistant coach at the school in my neighborhood,Clairemont High School. The head coach was Nate Wright who had played college ball locally at San Diego Sate University and then he went on to the pros playing for the Minnesota Vikings. He was a cornerback and a darned good one earning many All League honors and being selected to play in numerous Pro Bowls. His other assistants were also former pro players:Monte Jackson(Oakland Raiders),Dan Audick(San Francisco 49ers), and George Dickson who had payed back in the dinosaur days of Sid Luckman and the Chicago Bears.By the time I met up with Dickson on that high school staff he was an already an old fart. He'd been around all over the gridiron map.He had coached for spells at USC,Notre Dame,Oklahoma;had other jobs with the Oakland Raiders,Denver Broncos,Atlanta Falcons,Houston Oilers,the Saints,and coached the running backs for Vince Lombardi when he finished his career for the Washington Redskins.But he was never a head coach.Now in 1986 he was on a high school football field. But it wasn't a demotion nor a slight. He was doing it as a favor for Nate Wright and his group of ex pro ballers.

At first I felt that i was out of place with those guys.The reason Nate Wright took me on was that the previous season I had coached the junior varsity and did a pretty good job. My son was on that team and now he was brought up to the varsity and Wright thought that a lot of those kids that had played on that JV team, and now were with the varsity, would feel more comfortable. For Wright and all his pals it was the first time,with the exception of George Dickson,that any of them had coached any sort of football team.

But I didn't let any anxiety want to get in the way of my learning process. i wanted to continue coaching football and figured I couldn't be in a better spot than to learn things from these guys.But as the season trudged on I was becoming aware that this football brain trust wasn't funded with as much football moxie as I had first believed.

Wright and his crew wanted to handle things like they did in the pros:after warm ups everybody break into groups.I was helping with the linemen. Dan Audick,who had a Super Bowl ring with the 49ers,was in charge.But there was something eerie about him. All of a sudden he'd walk off the field and go sit on the sideline bench holding his head in his hands and not say anything.Everybody left him alone until he decided to come up for air. So most of the time i was with the linemen instead of Audick.

One thing that surprised me was these guys had played the best ball out there but they couldn't pass along what they knew to those kids. Those coaches were also myopic. They knew their positions and what their assignments were when they played but they were in a fog when it came to knowing the other surrounding supplemental parts of the game. By mid season I was offering more and more advice when it came to game plans and diagraming plays. But the thing those guys lacked ,or either forgot to do, was to teach those 16 year olds the basic fundamentals:how to get in a proper stance,different techniques on how to rush the quarterback,the best ways for a receiver to get off the line of scrimmage. However,their biggest fault was how to adjust strategy during the game. At first I'd chime in .Then after awhile they came running to me.But my ego wasn't being bolstered because that year we struggled. We finished with a 5 and 5 record.

George Dickson was a lot older than any of us. Like I said, everybody knew him .He was never out of a football job.But what used to crack me up about him was his disposition. He was sinewy with a shaved head and a raspy voice.He was in the 82nd Airborne and was dropped behind German lines before the D Day invasion.Everything that came out of his mouth was added a few choice four letter words and a snarl.
"What the f--k is the world coming to?"he'd gripe as he looked the co ed classes in the phys ed departments out on the field."Hell,I can't tell the girls from he boys."
He'd tell a kid to use a crack back block when he was downfield but the kid didn't know what a crack back block was so Dickson thought because the kid didn't do it that he was being insulted. The fact was that the kid was scared to tell Dickson that he didn't know what a crack back block was.
"You're dumber than dirt numb nuts,"screamed Dickson at the kid. "Didn't you hear me thimble dick?"
That's when I started to assert myself more.But i'll say this about me being more hands on.Those ex pros weren't jealous or tried to put me in my place.But that staff only lasted a year.Then they all went their different ways. Nate Wright kind of started the departures when he was caught by the campus cop in the back room scoring with the girl who was supposed to be keeping score for the team. One day Nate was there, and the next day he was down in jail being arraigned. The rest soon followed, but it was because they were bored with the whole thing.

Before the final curtain of the season was brought down I asked George Dickson if he had ever coached boxing.
"Boxing!,"he snapped."Why those fighters are lucky they're fighting or they'd be in jail dying of the clap or shot dead in the streets."

George Dickson is still alive. He's 98 years old. His last coaching job was in Canada. He finally got to be a head coach with the Hamilton Tiger Cats.After losing his two exhibition games, he then lost the first two games of the regular season. After that he was fired.I never knew the reason why.

The 2010 World Boxing Hall Of Fame program with my artwork on the cover

[dagosd2000]

Don't Get Around Much Anymore

If there was ever a fighter that you could say honed his teeth and was on frequent fighter list in Tijuana that would be Raul "Yori Boy "Campas.His name was on just about every fight poster in Tijuana during the mid 1980's through the next ten years. I never saw him fight until he got into the ring with Jorge Vaca in early 1994.The reason being that all of Campas' opposition to that point were names that sounded made up.

Campas was from Navojoa,Mexico that's out in the middle of the Mojave desert and is also the birthplace of the famous Los Angeles Dodger pitcher Fernando Valenzuela.Now if your a follower of the sport the name of "Yori Boy" Campas is no stranger.Later in his career he fought some name fighters like Fernando Vargas,Oba Carr,Tony Ayala Jr.(handing Ayala his first loss),and Oscar De La Hoya.But while he was winning away in TJ he was building his rep on a lot of no names. In fact he had reached a point where he was undefeated in 56 fights going into a title shot with another non loser named Felix Trinidad. But it was Campas' fight with Jorge Vaca that would catapult him into the spotlight with Trinidad.

Vaca was another bread and butter Mexican fighter who'd i'd always confuse with his brother Felipe.Jorge Vaca's record wasn't as impressive as "Yori Boy's" but he had been in their with names no one had to make up. Champs and future ones like Saoul Mamby,Lloyd Honeyghan,Simon Brown,Terry Norris,Roy Jones,and Mark Breland. In fact Vaca had a win over Honeyghan that let him borrow the welterweight title(though on a DQ)for a few months. With this in mind i thought Campas would finally get a test he wouldn't pass.

Before I get into his fight with Vaca I have to say that this was the last fight(Feb./1994)that my batteries were still fully charged for getting up to watch a fight live.It was certainly Campas' biggest fight ,and in addition it was fight where Tijuana was behind their transplanted hero "Yori Boy." I took a couple of the kids I used to coach at the high school with me and we sure got prepared for the opening bell. We went up and down Revolution Street and hit every bar that had their doors open. By the time we arrived at the Municipal Auditorium we were feeling no pain. The Auditorium was jammed to the rafters.The firecrackers were going off, and the traditional dead rattlesnake was being tossed back and forth around ringside.Everything seemed to be in alignment for one hell of a fight.

Vaca entered the ring first. He got an earful of "chifles" and boos,but it didn't seem to affect him. When he took off his robe he had that typical soft looking body that a lot of Mexican fighters carry but underneath they're really in shape to go. Campas followed and when he disrobed, him and Vaca you could be sure weren't ever going to win the Mr. Universe trophy.The bell rang for round one and both men charged after each other. It was two Mexicans who didn't want to submit their manhood in front of the aficianados. Usually Mexican fighters are slow starters. It's takes a good rap in the mouth that usually wakes them up. But that night it didn'ttake any wake up call to arouse the spirit within those two. The first round was a dandy.No defense(I think on purpose to show that fear was an absent factor)but a whirlwind of punches. The gong for round numero uno and everyone was looking for that rattlesnake to throw. When the bell sent them out for the second round Campas put Vaca in a corner.Then Vaca dropped his left hand and "Yori Boy" uncorked a counter right right on the side of Vaca's head. He fell like a sack of frijoles. He struggled to get up and finally beat the count but he was done. The crowd was going crazy and everybody was throwing things and then Campas was standing over him hitting him with everything including the kitchen sink and the dishwasher. The referee had no choice but to stop the carnage.

I left the arena that night not knowing that that would be the last time my buttons would ever get pushed again to watch the fights live. Campas went on after that and lost big time to Felix Trinidad after knocking down the Puerto Rican,but he wound up looking overmatched anyway.

But that was the final time it felt like the good 'ol crazy days of going to the fights and feeling a symbiosis with all the excitement. The thrill has gone. I went a few years ago to watch this guy they all raved about Chocolatito fight Cuadras the Mexican for the title.The fight was at the Forum in LA.The fight was a good one but my juices weren't excreting anymore. The serotonin level had dropped.My testosterone was in remission. i wanted to go home before the fight ended.

But maybe that comes with old age. Or maybe it has something to do with "I've been there.Done that."Whatever it is I just don't get around much anymore.


Terry Norris

[dagosd2000]

Dizzy Gillespie

When Marciano and Jersey Joe Walcott were rematched in Chicago there were a lot of Walcott followers that believed that Jersey Joe would be the first former heavyweight champ to regain the title. Joe almost had Rocky's number in that first fight. Even had Rocky waddling along on shaky legs.Frank Sikora ,the referee ,was looking closely at Marciano.Going into the hard luck round all Jersey joe had to do was last. He was that far ahead on the cards.

Also on the night of that fight there was a jazz concert at Massey Hall in Toronto ,Canada. The entrepreneurs, when they booked the event,didn't realize that there would be sort of a conflict. That being the championship heavyweight fight. The fight was postponed once,but when it was rescheduled the date corresponded with the jazz concert.

The concert was long awaited by jazz buffs because it reunited probably the best musicians with their appropriate instruments.
!.Charlie parker-alto sax
2.Dizzy Gillespie-trumpet.
3.Bud Powell-piano
4.Charlie Mingus-bass
5.Max Roach-drums

However,the Marciano/Walcott fight hurt the gate for that musical extravaganza.Instead of an expected sellout of around 1800 fans,there were only 800 tickets sold.The fight was on TV and many of the jazz aficianados decided to stay home and tune in the fight. Later,they could always put on a record of those cats playing their riffs.

Dizzy Gillespie was a little irked that he had to be blowing his horn on stage instead of watching the fight on TV. He kept going back and forth leaving the bandstand to go back stage to listen to the fight on a radio that was on table behind the curtains. the other musicians were getting upset with him.I guess they weren't much interested in the fight.

But Marciano put Walcott away in quick order,less than a round,and now Dizzy could go back to tooting his horn. But he was very upset.The rumor had it that a janitor backstage got to ribbing Gillespie about the outcome of the fight. That's when Dizzy pulled out a knife. Charlie Mingus,who put together the quintet,heard the ruckus back stage and took the knife from Gillespie.. Fortunately,everyone calmed down and the concert proceeded without anymore interruptions.

In a way it was good that the fight lasted less than a round.If it had gone on like the first fight there wouldn't have much music generated by Gillespie. The session was recorded and on the album cover the quote was,"The Greatest Jazz Concert Ever." It certainly stands, in comparison to that fight, as something more significant.



Salt Peanuts peformed at Massey Hall,!953

[dagosd2000]

I Don't Get Around Much Anymore And The I'm OK You're OK Corral

I'm finding out as I grow older that I'm changing.I go through stages.That seems to be the natural order of things. But what makes a person change? Do people change on their own or do events make people change.?It's like what came first the chicken or the egg? This virus made people change so that's a thing in my mind. I don't even like to call it by its two names. I kind of feel sorry for the young people. They want to go out and live life. They don't want to feel constricted. And the old people? Well they are becoming anxious.They kind of wanted to go out of this world on their own terms,but now with this virus they are folding,isolating themselves from the rest of society. More grumpy than usual.

I have two sisters that live less than a mile away from me. I talk to the on the phone but I haven't seen them in over 6 months. They're afraid of being contaminated by me and everyone else. They both got this virus in early March even though they got every kind of vaccination their HMO has to offer. Me and the wife try to live like before but it's different now. We haven't had a cold in 25 years. Now you might say that I just jinxed myself. Think whatever you want. I have no control over it.

But I've been morphing for quite a spell now. At first it's hard to break old habits,bt if your mind is telling you to change-then do it. i used to like to exercise all the time. When my hips started going bad i went from jogging everyday to walking.I used to go in the pool every morning,but in the winter(even though I live in the "best" climate region in the world) the cold water was making the pain worse. The walking I've pared down to having to climb up the stairs to my condo several times a day and walking across the complex to get my mail.

There's a very good documentary on Netflix called "The Social Dilemma."I don't want to say it's "excellent" because I don't think it goes far enough,but it examines how social media is brainwashing the public. How by using algorithms, computers have learned to shape one's thinking by assessing what someone looks at on their computer devices. I've believed this for quite some time. To me it's obvious. I see people who think they have a mind of their own but are robots responding to the media like lab rats.

It started with television. Since most of us were in front of a TV from the beginning, it was our parents that became concerned by how much time their kids spent in front of the tube.What are they learning from this new medium? Elvis? Challenging parents' authority?How America practices social injustice? The anti hero is a victim of society? I sure bought it all.

But like I say,I'm changing. I look back on what was taking place in America 50 years ago and think that the backlash then, well most of it, was sound. Discrimmination and Vietnam being the villains. But today that internet media and the tube is still trying to keep us back in 1968. People like Jane Fonda ,and Woodward and Berntein ,are still trying to recapture their glory years.But it's because they don't want o be forgotten.But they can try as hard as they want. The millennials don't know who they are so how can they forget?So now the media has what I call new agents to spread the BS.

Yesterday I said I don't get supercharged by going to the fights anymore. That's just one example. But it's not because the fights are necessarily bad. It's neither here nor there with me.I just don't look at it the same anymore. All sports are just a passing occurrence that either tickles me when my team(or fighter) wins,but if they lose, I can sleep well.

Now I find peace with my family,I'm lucky.But having family is a life's biggest investment.and if something disrupts my family I'm bothered. It's more to lose.Gee, i wish my sisters would come out of their cave.But if that's what they want to do I guess I have to live with it.

My grandson Adam sparring in the gym when he was a kid.

[dagosd2000]

Call It Whatever You Want To Call It

In 1976 Muhammad Ali consented to meet the Japanese wrestler Antonio Inoki in a "real" contest. i don't want to say it was a fight nor do I want to say it was a wrestling match.It wasn't billed as an exhibition match either. No.We were told it was legit.The public was led to believe that Ali could do his thing- box;and Inoki could do his thing- wrestle. Usually it's the boxer that wants the wrestler or,in today's world, the MMA artist to conform to strictly a boxing match like what happened between Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor. There was no way McGregor could have beaten Mayweather in that boxing match. I have to hand it to McGregor to agree to those terms. I watched that boxing match and kept thinking if McGregor was allowed to grab Floyd and choke him out that that contest wouldn't have lasted a round. It took awhile for Mayweather to finally finish off a very tired McGregor.What a piece of cake to break Marciano's unbeaten streak.

At first I had admired Ali for consenting to let Inoki to fight "his way."To tell the truth I thought Ali was going to get his ass kicked. Ali was the heavyweight champion of the world. Inoki was recognized as the NWF Heavyweight Champion.In other words he could kick just about everybody's ass with his MMA abilities.

Inoki wasn't one of those Sumo wrestlers. He WAS a big man,bigger than Ali,and athletic and mean. He was very serious before this contest.He was confident he would win. Ali was confident he would win too. He kept up his usual pre fight schtick of joking around and insulting his opponent.

But what everybody didn't know was that at the 11th hour the rules were altered to favor Ali.it was Ali who thought twice about the prefight conditions after he saw Inoki devour his sparring partners(boxers)within the rules that Ali had agreed too.The changes included that Inoki couldn't grapple,tackle,nor kick Ali unless Inoki had one foot planted on the mat.The kicker (no pun intended)with these new rules was that the public would not know about the new stipulations before the opening bell.

I saw this whatever you want to call it on a replay. Inoki fought mostly on his back kicking at Ali.It reminded me of a girl being attacked in an alley by the Werewolf Of London..How in the hell was Inoki going to beat Ali doing that?On the other hand Ali would just back away or circle around Inoki calling him names and turning the whole thing into a circus.However, there was a moment when Ali risked himself by grabbing Inoki's flailing legs. Ali lost his balance and fell in a heap with Inoki ready to strangle him like a boa constrictor. But aha! Another new rule:if Ali grabbed the ring rope the contestants would be separated and allowed to stand and resume the comedy.This went on for 15 rounds. BTW-Ali did mange to hit Inoki with two consecutive jabs.Don't ask me the round.

When the play finally had the curtain drop everyone in the auditorium wanted their money back. And remember this whatever you want to call it was held in Japan. Japanese fans ae usually very stoic. Not that night.

Ali's career is probably discussed,dissected,and analyzed more than any other athlete who ever lived.But this whatever you want to call it never comes up in a dialogue. I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned on the forum.So I thought I'd put my two cents in.

Muhammad Ali-No Kung Fu fighter

[f read]

The Ali-Inoki fight was an ill advised decision. It did nothing for the good of boxing or wrestling. No it was not pre determined. A pre determined ending was discussed in early negotiations. The story goes that Ali was going to pound Inoki and Gene Lebell the great Judo legend who was guest referee was going to be in on the ending with Inoki winning. Ali decided that would not be right and actually thought he could beat Inoki as the time grew near he finally realized that his goose would be cooked in a no holds barred contest so as mentioned rules favoring the boxer would be applied. The whole scene was a fiasco. Yes a very forgettable evening and Ali suffered severe hematoma to his legs and even spent time in a hospital. He was never right after this either. He slowly declined and this was the beginning of the end for his career. Inoki fought several other boxers over the years Karl Mildenberger Chuck Wepner and Leon Spinks likely all were not legitimate contests. This according to some is where MMA-UFC origins and the idea began. This goes down in the annals of not so great moments in sports.

[dagosd2000]

The Ali-Inoki fight was an ill advised decision. It did nothing for the good of boxing or wrestling. No it was not pre determined. A pre determined ending was discussed in early negotiations. The story goes that Ali was going to pound Inoki and Gene Lebell the great Judo legend who was guest referee was going to be in on the ending with Inoki winning. Ali decided that would not be right and actually thought he could beat Inoki as the time grew near he finally realized that his goose would be cooked in a no holds barred contest so as mentioned rules favoring the boxer would be applied. The whole scene was a fiasco. Yes a very forgettable evening and Ali suffered severe hematoma to his legs and even spent time in a hospital. He was never right after this either. He slowly declined and this was the beginning of the end for his career. Inoki fought several other boxers over the years Karl Mildenberger Chuck Wepner and Leon Spinks likely all were not legitimate contests. This according to some is where MMA-UFC origins and the idea began. This goes down in the annals of not so great moments in sports.

Very well said

[dagosd2000]

Hit 'Em Where It Hurts

The summer I helped Archie Moore at his Any Boy Can Club in Southeast San Diego ,like I had said before,he didn't talk much about his career.He was there to help those kids get off the streets and stay away from bad influences.The only casual conversations we had was a about music,mainly jazz.I had a load of questions that i wanted to ask him about boxing,but it seem like the time and the place. Besides,that's all he heard from strangers who asked him the same pedestrian questions.
"Who do you think is the best fighter?"
"What do you think of Muhammad Ali?"(Archie didn't care for Ali[Clay at the time when they fought] feeling he was disrespected by Ali's comments before the fight)
Or the mundane rhetorical questions where the asker already had his own answer.
"Don't you think Ali is the greatest heavyweight of all time?"(If you wanted to distance yourself from the champ ask him that one)

So when helping out at the club I didn't glean many personal accounts of Archie Moore's long and illustrious career as a fighter. But Moore was free to offer his views on the sport when he sat down for an interview and he knew the purpose was for him to enlighten the audience with something special rather than a rote recital of a particular bout.

Jack Murphy was by far San Diego's most noted sports writer. He covered it all of what was happening in San Diego. But there wasn't that much to cover. There was no Major League Baseball.The Chargers didn't arrive from LA until 1960. There were two NBA franchises at different times but they didn't last. The San Diego Padres got established in 1969 .They are the only big time team that has lasted. The Chargers moved back up to LA in 2018. Looking back on it,it was Archie Moore that kept Jack Murphy's typewriter moving.

Murphy was the perfect foil for Archie Moore.A kind of straight man.He didn't want to share the spotlight.Archie could bask in all of it.Murphy would ask a question and Moore would go on and on. But it was very good stuff. The pearls of wisdom would flow like Mark Twain's raft floating down the Mississippi River.

One time I tuned in to an interview on the tube with Archie and Jack Murphy doing the asking.Murphy asked the Mongoose what was his favorite punch. Like it was room service made to order,Moore raised his brow,paused,and then answered.
"Tt all depends on what blow i can hurt my adversary with."
Moore had the scribe where he wanted.
"You see when I probe a fighter I'm looking to find out what punch makes him wince. Stops him in his tracks.Then when I know what punch hurts my opponent I'll follow up with it."
"Where did you learn that from?"
"Well,there used to be a fighter named Joe Walcott.Not the heavyweight champ who was also a great fighter,but the Joe Walcott they called Barbados.He was the welterweight champion of the world around the turn of the century. I got to know him after he had retired from the ring. I was beginning my career and one day he took me aside to give me some advice about fighting.He told me that fighters have strong points and weak points when it comes to pain. He told me that he would find an opponent's point on his body that was vulnerable to pain and exploit it .An Achilles heel so to speak.He said when he found that spot on his opponent's body then he'd focus his attack there."
"Do you have any experiences you could share?"
"Well one time back when i was fighting early in my career I fought a man whose defenses were suspect.I could almost hit him at will. But to my chagrin I couldn't hurt the man. My blows were ineffective.Then we fell into a clinch. While we were tied up I tapped him on top of the head with a light blow. I saw him grimace.When the referee separated us I went back to find an opening to strike him again on top of his head. Like I said the man didn't know how to protect himself and in the process I could hit him on top of his head at will. Before the bell sounded to end the round I had knocked the man out with a blow on top of his head.it wasn't a powerful punch but it turned the trick in my favor."

After the interview was over I thought to myself why didn't I ask Archie Moore something like that.


Barbados Joe Walcott

[dagosd2000]

I'm In It For The Buck

i remember when I was a little kid in Chicago my father had a couple of fighters. I can't remember their names though one of them was "Kid" something or other. My, father being in the mob i guess, thought it was some sort of status to say "I have a piece of a fighter."Like in that movie Bronx Tale when Chazz Palminteri ,who plays that "made" guy, and is telling Robert DeNiro and his son who are at St. Nicks Arena sitting up in the bleachers that if they want to come down and sit ringside they're welcome because "I have a piece of a middleweight". But DeNiro refuses because he doesn't want his son to fall under the spell of this wise gay but unfortunately he already has. "A piece of a fighter".It's not "I have invested my money with a promising fighter."That doesn't sound cool enough. No.My old man "had a piece of a fighter."Makes you want to go out and buy a pinstriped suit and a heater.

My father took me to the Marigold Gardens to watch one his fighters fight. i don't know which one, but the kid won. Another time he took me to the Chicago Stadium to watch the other one(or maybe it was the same one) but he lost.BTW.If you ever watch one of those broadcasts from the Chicago Stadium they'll announce the timekeeper,Mike Murphy. He was my Godfather. I never met the guy in person.He never came over to the house and we never went to his house,but Mike Murphy was my Godfather, Sounds cool i guess,but Godfathers are supposed to look after you on the side. Mike Murphy never did.

My father had a couple of theories about fighters.One was along the lines of Emanuel Steward's philosophy. My father liked fighters that were tall and had a long reach.My father said that fighters who were short had to wade in and would absorb too much punishment. But my father loved Rocky Marciano who was not only short but had the shortest reach of any of the heavyweight champs.Another adage was that if a fighter lost two in a row my father would tell his charge to go back to school(sometimes start school)or take up a trade. My father didn't want a guy get his brains beat in and wind up broke and punchy.I'm not sure but I think Marv Jensen who handled Gene Fullmer told his fighter after he couldn't beat Dick Tiger in three tries(one was gift draw)that he wouldn't manage him any more. Fullmer had had enough by that time.Usually it was Fullmer who would whack the other guy around,but when he met up with Dick Tiger,Fullmer became the whackee.

When i was hanging around the Coliseum in San Diego and watching Denny Moyer at the end,it became a sorrowful sight. Sid Flaherty had his cash cow still and didn't care if Moyer was on the receiving end more than dealing out the punches. All Moyer wanted was more fights so he didn't have to work a regular 9 to 5 job. Denny was just a shell of his once great self. He was boozing it up pretty good and at his age that was as damaging as getting clocked in the head by Monzon. He was invited to Italy by Carlos so he could pick up a few lira and of course lose. I don't think Moyer figured he could win,but if you look at the film of that fight he gave a good account of himself for a few rounds. When Denny passed he was living in an institution back in his hometown,Portland. He didn't even recognize his wife.

Moyer once told me that he liked fighting at the Silver Slipper in Vegas.(a lot of the once greats were acting their last lines at that venue)
"I can always make a fast buck fighting at the Slipper" he said.
A buck? A buck is a dollar. Yeah.He could pay the rent and his bar tab fighting at the Silver Slipper. He should have hung up his gloves long before that.

[dagosd2000]

Perception Isn't Always Reality

All weekend long and then on Monday nights and then they even started showing games in the middle of the week.Yeah,you guessed it ,football of the American ilk.It used to be baseball that was the "National pastime"(and some still refer to it as that)but baseball has given way to football.Now I know everywhere else on the planet they call soccer football or futbol,and if everyone else is calling it football then they have the numbers on their side so if you ever get the chance to be on Jeopardy and they ask you " The name of the game where 11 men run up and down the field and can only kick the ball with their feet and try getting into the net?"If you answered "What is football?"then they shouldn't say you got the question wrong because they think the correct word is "soccer."

But hang out with a bunch of drunk gringos at the bar and say that we want to watch the football game on the TV you'd expect to see something like Tom Brady throwing a pass and everyone on a knee during the National Anthem before the gun goes off. Now, they've added a message. We get to see the expression "Black Lives Matter "painted on the field.Where's the remote?

There was a time I wanted to get as far as I could playing American football. In high school it was automatic that if you were on the football team there wasn't a teacher on campus that would flunk you and there were always girls that would
lie down in the back of your dad's station wagon and offer herself for the winning score.Then after you reached a level were the competition was too good for you to make the team you watched every game on TV that was on every day during the week.

San Diego is typical of just about every metropolitan burg in the States-it's become a potpourri of every race and nationality there is. It's getting to the point where football is catching up with football ,or did I mean to say soccer is on the heels of football?

When I travel to Europe and say "football" I'm sure to make it clear that I'm referring to the game that you kick the ball into the net.I haven't met many people on the Continent that have a high regard for that Yankee game of football.But try sounding off about the qualities and aesthetics of the ball kicked into the net football in contrast to the rough and tough NFL game and those drunk gringos sitting at the bar will ask you if you take Midol for headaches

I've heard plenty on this side of the pond say that the rest of the world doesn't have what it takes to play American football.The rest of the world isn't tough enough. But i call BS on all that. I'm at a stage where I once looked at American football through the eyes of those drunks at the bar and now have changed the prescription of my glasses. I view American football as being the most overrated sport in the world. Gee,where do I start?

First of all the game is sloppy. A lot of grabbing and pushing and shoving. A running back runs 5 yards for a first down and the crowd goes nuts. or there's a completed pass 10 yards down the field and cannons go off. But most of all the game is S L O W.I figure each play takes 5 seconds to run. Each side runs around 60 plays, That's 10 minutes of action.Watch a football game and it lasts 3 and one half hours. The rest of the time is walking back and forth to the line of scrimmage,calling the play in the huddle,waiting for the snap,and the penalties,the challenges by the opposing side,the referees reviewing each score,and the timeouts not only called by the team but the timeouts in the middle of the game for a commercial.Each player wears about a thousand dollars worth of gear that slows them down.And then there's all the cheap shots and mad dogging. Take stock of American football. It's hyped up to make you believe it's the most macho game played the best of course by Americans.

I'll tell you the game that has American football beat as far as having the balls to play it-Rugby. The game is non stop running up and down the field. There's no plays called in the huddle.And there's not all this gear reminiscent of Darth Vader.I'll put the shoe on the other foot. Americans don't have the huevos to play Rugby.Why?It's just to tough. But Americans won't admit that. No.Rugby is like that game where you use your feet to kick the round ball into the net.It's too boring.BS.

These NFL prima donnas wouldn't be caught dead in a Rugby game because they know that THEY don't have what it takes.They'd get their asses(arses) kicked and there tongues would be hanging out of their mouths before you could say "I need a facemask.".I could just see some of these swell headed football players getting trampled in a scrum. That would be bad for their image.

But since this is a boxing website I should say something about the sweet science. I remember the days when us Yanks dominated the divisions. Not any more. Those kids that had what it took to get in the ring,well those youngsters today are now looking for something that won't get them hurt so bad. Football is a contact game for sure but you don't get "contacted" like you do in boxing. In the last few years this issue of concussions with football has made the leagues impose even more protection with the gear and cinching up the rules. If a player even puts his bulky taped hands touching a player's helmet it's a penalty and a fine.Maybe a suspension. The lawsuits are coming out of the lawyers' offices faster than you can say "How deep are the league's pockets?"

Boxing is still for tough guys. But like I said the American tough guy would rather fake it playing football than going head to head against the All Blacks and winding up with a black eye. For sure he'd wind up with a shiner or a lot worse if he put on the boxing gloves.

No helmet and facemask = (you fill in the blank)

[dagosd2000]

The Strongest Man In The World Doesn't Mean Much In A Boxing Ring

i started lifting weights in 1960 when the gurus of sport said that weightlifting was only good if you wanted to be a weightlifter.My father thought that i had a shot of being a baseball player.(at what level I don't know),but when I began lifting weights he was very against it.
"Lifting weights ties you up and makes you musclebound."
Back then you couldn't get much back up from anyone except maybe another iron worker that dumbbells were mainly for dumbbells not for the elite athlete..But i wanted to be strong and have big muscles. During the 50's Americans were right up there with the best weightlifters in the world. Americans actually had a big influence on the Russians. In short time Russia and the Eastern Bloc countries rose to top and stayed there.You know how it is with those Commie countries. They're always looking to show the world that their system is the best,especially when it comes to comparing it with the USA.They screen kids early to see if they have any potential in anything from ballet dancing to lifting weights.if a kid looks like a prodigy they'll take him to some huge training facility with all the other geniuses of their respective endeavors and give them the best. They don't have to work and their families are taken care of to boot.

During the 1950's the strongest man in the world was a guy by the name of Paul Anderson. He was a very religious fellow,married his sweet heart in 1966 and they had a daughter.They formed a home for unsettlrd kids,The Paul Anderson Home For Troubled Youth, in his home state Georgia.Anderson helped fund his school by putting on weightlifting exhibitions and performing strongman feats.In 1956 Anderson ,representing the U.S., won a Gold medal in the Olympics competing in the weightlifting category -the three lifts consisting of the overhead press,the snatch,and the clean and jerk. He also won the world championships in 1955 and every tournament in the United States.Anderson was a shade under 6 feet and competed at around 350 pounds. I saw him put on an exhibition in San Diego once and he looked like one of those 5 by 5's they joke about.His chest not expanded was 60 inches and his arms taped 22 inches in circumference.His thighs could feed an army measuring 38 inches around.

Curiously Anderson got it in his head to be a boxer. He thought he would be the heavyweight champ. Maybe it was because he never lost at anything from lifting weights to eating the most pancakes,but Anderson focused his sights on becoming a fighter. He "slimmed down" to 280 pounds and had his first fight in some faraway arena in North Carolina.He fought in a prelim bout against a fighter named Atiluio Tondo who brought a 3 and 7 record into the ring.The bout was set for 6 rounds. BTW-Anderson outweighed his foe by 94 pounds.Now, the description of this contest I've gleaned from the local reporter's words where he sat at ringside. Anderson started fast knocking his opponent down 3 times but he immediately arose each time showing he had plenty of fight left in him.However,by the 3rd round Anderson was gassed.
"He was wheezing like a wounded rhinoceros."
After the round Anderson wanted the fight stopped.I'm not sure about the result.

I was interested in how Anderson would turn out as a fighter. I thought at one time the Ring Record Book showed him winning 2 fights and then retiring. BoxRec has nothing on any of Anderson's fights

Unless you followed weightlifting and weightlifters the rest of the sports world was on a different orbit. Lifting weights and big muscles only hampered an athlete's performance so said the trainers elsewhere.As far as boxing went you had better odds finding the Holy Grail inside a boxing gym than tripping over a barbell.Angelo Dundee was a firm believer that weight training was detrimental to a fighter. My old man was on Angelo's side. When I started lifting weights my father shook his head in disgust.Today,you can't name a sport where there's not a weight program as part of the regimen. But even in these times of all the supplemental conditioning in every sport you don't see much of any iron lying around in a boxing gym. I remember the times I'd walk up the stairs to Spud Murphy's Gym on Broadway.There was an exercise bench in the corner and some weights like you'd buy from Ben Weider out of a catalogue below the bench. I swear no one evet touched those weights They were always in the same place in the corner coated with a film of dust.

With all the trophies on Paul Anderson's mantle I wonder what made him think he could one day adorn that mantle with the heavyweight championship belt.Just because you're the best at something doesn't automatically qualify you as an expert in something else.For Paul Anderson, he would press weight to get a lift.

Paul Anderson wheezing like a rhinoceros

[dagosd2000]

A Bomber By Any Other Color

There'd be a big stink if you called a black fighter "brown' today. Joe Louis was of course "the Brown Bomber", but you put that color on a black fighter now and even to refer to a black person as an African/American is pushing the envelope.Can you imagine a movement called "Brown Lives Matter"?Wouldn't fly. Brown suggests something weak,passive,soft,demeaning,lacking power. "Black" on the other hand has always been associated with evil,doom,fright,deadly,something sinister and powerful.

Roger Mayweather's nickname was the "Black Mamba."Now a Black Mamba is the name of a very deadly snake. That's scary. It's not to say that Roger Mayweather was particularly scary inside a boxing ring,but just his handle might have made an opponent's knees lose some of their integrity.A plague was called "The Black Death." If someone does something bad he puts a" black mark" on his name.When the stock market crashed in 1929 it was referred to as "Black Tuesday."Bobby Seale and Huey Newton formed a militant group in Oakland called "The Black Panthers."Bad mother f---ers.

But blacks , for years,have been against the negatives associated with the word "black.But today to call a black man a "brown man" and blacks will assume that person voted for Donald Trump. "Brown "is wishy washy. lacks oomph. Doesn't make one run for cover. But if you could turn the clock back and rename Joe Louis "The Black Bomber' I'm not sure what the reaction would be.I think whites would want to stick with the color "brown". It was a white guy anyway that pinned that moniker,Brown Bomber" on him. They wouldn't have called Louis "the Black Bomber."That would have been like i said- to scary.Today,the word "brown" has been mothballed along with that old standard,the word"negro." Joe Louis thought of himself as a negro. So did Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong. Even the king of non conformists Jack Johnson was a negro and you could even call him "colored" and he would take no offense.

The millennial blacks of this era have heard of Joe Louis. They don't know much about him.Many have set him aside with the Uncle Toms of yore-Louis Armstrong,Hattie McDaniel,and Sammy Davis Jr.to name some.You don't have to be Stepin' Fetchit to make the list.

But getting back to the current. Imagine Mike Tyson being called "The Brown Bomber"?He wouldn't stand for it. I remember the time he went off on that white reporter after Lennox Lewis did away with him.That wasn't a negro speaking. it wasn't a brown person reacting. it was that big tough black man Mike Tyson who got his ass kicked by another black fighter. So Mike vented on this reporter and had to call out the color of his skin in his rage.What was behind that?And now Mike wants to fight again. He misses boxing. Well,I don't miss him. I miss Joe Louis.

Marin Luther king said "I have a dream." Well,my dream is to see the Joe Louis."The Brown Bomber' kick Mike Tyson's ass.



Mike Tyson revealing his true character after being counted out by Lennox Lewis.Could you imagine a white fighter saying something similar after losing to a black fighter. Let's say Gerry Cooney reacting like a psycho to a black reporter after losing to Larry Holmes?Why the white liberal media would have him nailed to the cross. And the blacks? Maybe they'd shake their heads-some of them. But life would go on like nothing happened.Nothing happened to Mike Tyson after his tirade except that he got more popular. Go figure.

[goose 5]

Joe Frazier maxed 170 lbs. in the military press on the old "Superstars" competition and that's not too good for a man his size. However, I remember Tim Witherspoon pressing either 300 or 305. Didn't Tim have a college football background ?

[dagosd2000]

Joe Frazier maxed 170 lbs. in the military press on the old "Superstars" competition and that's not too good for a man his size. However, I remember Tim Witherspoon pressing either 300 or 305. Didn't Tim have a college football background ?

Goose
Interesting observation. Now for my novelette It doesn't matter how big you are.If you've never lifted weights,a man's poundage will matter little in the weight room especially on the first try.In 1962 the San Diego Chargers,under the demand by head coach Sid Gillman, initiated for the first time an organized team involved in a weight training program. Yet the Chargers didn't even have their own weight room.Gillman put the team in a gym that was located on lower Broadway called Lloyd's Gym.The gym was situated above Lloyd's Music City that sold 45's of all the current hits played on the radio.The guy who ran the gym was a hulk by the name of Ralph Kroeger.He was Mr. San Diego and had amassed a lot of trophies via his physical attributes.

The football coach,Bennie Edens, at the high school I attended( and I was also on the team),said if it's good enough for the Chargers it's good enough for us. So it was mandatory that the team also had to join Lloyd's Gym and share space with the Chargers.

Ralph Kroeger, being a body builder, trained us like we were body builders too. To be quite honest nobody knew how to use the weight room to benefit an athlete in a particular sport yet. Kroeger had us doing a lot of squats that bulked up our quads but didn't show us any exercises to counter the squats to build up our hamstrings. That season ,because of too much muscle with our quads ,we pulled a lot of hamstring muscles that sidelined a lot of guys-the Chargers included

None of the either the pros or us high school kids had much weightlifting experience.I remember the giant lineman for the Chargers, Ernie Ladd, who was 6 foot 9 and weighed over 300 pounds trying to bench press 190 pounds and having Kroeger take it off his chest because he was too 'weak.Man,did Kroeger give him an earful.The strongest guy in that gym was Ron Mix who was an all pro tackle and had a long back round lifting weights. He could bench 400.

I don't put much stock into lifting weights for a fighter.A guy can bench press 400 pounds and punch like a sissy. Earnie Shavers,who i thought had the best right hand in boxing, had lanky arms and he never touched a weight But he had the knack of getting leverage into that punch with great speed. The weights would have taken that away from him.