Floyd Mayweather: I'm TBE - Not Ali, Marciano or Menayothin!

[gilgamesh]

How many times do we gotta read this same statement, and comment on it? We get it. He thinks he's the greatest. Or at least says so because that's how he markets himself. Now let's all get pissed and name who we think is better for the 10,000th time.

[gilgamesh]

As for who did he beat in their prime. Of those names you listed. Quite a few of them I'd say were prime when Floyd beat 'em.

Corrales, Hatton, Marquez, Cotto still had a Middleweight title in him so I'll count him. Jose Luis Castillo was still in his prime, I'll give it to Floyd for the 2nd fight, not the 1st one. Marcos Maidana and Robert Guerrero were never better than the times they fought Floyd I'd say.

Pre-Prime Canelo who would go on to be the next generation's Top star is a big thing too. He was several fights deep into his career so it's not like he was a total noob.

[lazboy]

How many times do we gotta read this same statement, and comment on it? We get it. He thinks he's the greatest. Or at least says so because that's how he markets himself. Now let's all get pissed and name who we think is better for the 10,000th time.

What else is there to talk about? Covid? Trump?

[gilgamesh]

How many times do we gotta read this same statement, and comment on it? We get it. He thinks he's the greatest. Or at least says so because that's how he markets himself. Now let's all get pissed and name who we think is better for the 10,000th time.

What else is there to talk about? Covid? Trump?

Hell surely there's something else Boxing related to talk about than whether or not Mayweather really is the greatest or not for the 10,000th time

I really don't give a sh*t, just seems weird that we have this conversation every 2 months.

[lazboy]

How many times do we gotta read this same statement, and comment on it? We get it. He thinks he's the greatest. Or at least says so because that's how he markets himself. Now let's all get pissed and name who we think is better for the 10,000th time.

What else is there to talk about? Covid? Trump?

Hell surely there's something else Boxing related to talk about than whether or not Mayweather really is the greatest or not for the 10,000th time

I really don't give a sh*t, just seems weird that we have this conversation every 2 months.

I love it. Talking about him gives me purpose in my miserable life. What do you think he's doing right now?

[margaret thatcher]

waxing his balls maybe?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Appreciate Floyd may not be a natural welterweight but that’s the weight he largely campaigned in - with that in mind, I don’t even think Floyd’s the best welterweight Although he’d be up there. I can’t see him beating Hearns (I don’t believe he was aggressive enough to do what Leonard did), I don’t think he could beat Leonard (who was too active, more skilled offensively and arguably on par or maybe less than defensively skilled). I also doubt that Floyd could have done what Leonard did to Hagler. Clearly a legendary fightEr (Mayweather) but I can’t put him above Leonard.

I agree, I think he would have struggled to beat a prime DLH or Mosley at WW also.

On that, I watched Mosley DLH 1 a few months back. My god what a fight. My guess is also that both were pedded to the gills. Non-stop action and hard punching. Don't hear about that fight enough in my opinion.

Along with the Barrera Morales fights, one of the best fights of the 90s.

[gilgamesh]

I agree, I think he would have struggled to beat a prime DLH or Mosley at WW also.

On that, I watched Mosley DLH 1 a few months back. My god what a fight. My guess is also that both were pedded to the gills. Non-stop action and hard punching. Don't hear about that fight enough in my opinion.

Along with the Barrera Morales fights, one of the best fights of the 90s.

None of those fights were in the 90's.

Mosley vs De La Hoya was 2000. So was the first Barrera-Morales fight.

[Enlightened-One]

Let's evaluate Floyd Mayweather Jr's career...

• Possesses an unblemished 50-0 professional record, with 27 KO’s
• Competed in 29 world title fights (if we include the lineal championship as well)
• Has gained world titles in five weight divisions (super featherweight, lightweight, light welterweight, welterweight & light middleweight)
• Has won twelve world title belts from the big four governing bodies
• Has consistently been ranked amongst the top ten pound-for-pound Ring Magazine rankings during his career
• Was the Ring Magazine’s fighter of the year in 1998 & 2007
• 24 of his victories have come against 22 former world champions
• Floyd achieved a 17-fight winning streak against former/current world champions when he defeated Andre Berto, a run which commenced a decade prior (against Arturo Gatti [25/06/2005])
• Floyd Mayweather Jr. has been a professional boxer for two decades
• Money May won his first world title fight 17 years prior to his final world championship bout, by defeating Genaro Hernandez (a Hall-of-Fame nominee, a man who had competed in 15 world title bouts, had only previously been defeated by Oscar De La Hoya [in a weight class that was not his natural habitat] and who also boasted a victory against an all-time-great [Azumah Nelson])
• Ring Magazine rates Floyd Mayweather Jr. in 12th position of its pound-for-pound “Best-of-Modern Times” list (based on the votes of 20 boxing experts to determine the Top 20 fighters since World War II)
• Based on the aggregated totals of all fights on his resume, the average Floyd Mayweather Jr. opponent lands a mere 16% of punches thrown, this is the lowest collective figure recorded in CompuBox's 4,000-fight database (as of May 2014)
• Mayweather had the best plus/minus rating of any fighter (as of September 2014), which is a measure of the variance between Floyd’s own connect rate and that of his opponents’ (in other words, a gauge of the “Hit and don't get hit” old adage)
• BoxRec considers Floyd Mayweather Jr. the greatest of all time

In terms of Floyd Mayweather Jr’s final sixteen opponents of his career:

• Six were top-ten ranked pound-for-pounders at the time he faced them (Manny Pacquiao [3rd]; Saul Alvarez [10th]; Shane Mosley [3rd]; Juan Manuel Marquez [2nd]; Ricky Hatton [8th] and Diego Corrales [5th])
• Five are dead-cert first ballot Hall-of-Famers (Juan Manuel Marquez, Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosley; Miguel Cotto and Manny Pacquiao)
• Fifteen opponents were world champions during their careers
• Two are currently ranked in the top-ten pound-for-pound list and are also current world title holders (Canelo Alvarez [fighter of the year 2019] and Manny Pacquiao)
• Ten held world titles in multiple weight divisions (Zab Judah; Juan Manuel Marquez; Ricky Hatton; Oscar De La Hoya; Manny Pacquiao; Marcos Maidana; Saul Alvarez; Robert Guerrero; Miguel Cotto; and Shane Mosley)

At least twelve of the fighters Floyd Mayweather Jr. faced were fighters that became Hall-of-Fame inductees or at least good enough to be included in the nominees listed in the annual IBHoF voting ballot:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

According to Ring Magazine, the following fighters were considered top-ten pound-for-pounders at the time of their fights against Floyd Mayweather Jr.:

World Titles:
• WBC Super Featherweight Title (1998-2002; 8 defenses)
• WBC Lightweight Title (2002-2004; 3 defenses)
• WBC Super Lightweight Title (2005; 0 defenses)
• IBF Welterweight Title (2006; 0 defenses)
• (2) WBC Welterweight Title (2006-2008; 1 defense, 2011-2015; 5 defenses)
• (2) WBC Super Welterweight Title (2007; 0 defenses, 2013-2015; 1 defense)
• WBA Super Welterweight Super Title (2012-2016; 1 defense)
• WBA Welterweight Super Title (2014-2016; 3 defenses)
• WBO Welterweight Title (2015; 0 defenses)

Unified Titles:
• Unified Junior Middleweight Title (2013-2015; WBA, WBC)
• (2) Unified Welterweight Title (2014-2015; WBC, WBA, 2015; WBC, WBA, WBO)
• Simultaneously held WBC Welterweight Title and WBC Junior Middleweight Title (2007)
• Simultaneously held WBC Welterweight Title and WBA Junior Middleweight Title (2012-2015)
• Simultaneously held WBC Welterweight Title and Unified Junior Middleweight Title (WBA, WBC) (2013-2015)
• Simultaneously held Unified Welterweight Title (WBC, WBA) and Unified Junior Middleweight Title (WBA, WBC) (2014-2015)
• Simultaneously held Unified Welterweight Title (WBC, WBA, WBO) and Unified Junior Middleweight Title (WBA, WBC) (2015)

The Ring Magazine Titles:
• World Lightweight Title (2002-2004)
• (2) World Welterweight Title (2006-2008, 2013-2015)
• World Junior Middleweight Title (2013-2015)

Lineal Titles:
• World Junior Lightweight Title (1998-2002)
• World Lightweight Title (2002-2004)
• (2) World Welterweight Title (2006-2008, 2010-2015)
• World Junior Middleweight Title (2013-2015)

[gilgamesh]

And after all that, where would you rank him all time?

[jamesmcdonnell]

On that, I watched Mosley DLH 1 a few months back. My god what a fight. My guess is also that both were pedded to the gills. Non-stop action and hard punching. Don't hear about that fight enough in my opinion.

Along with the Barrera Morales fights, one of the best fights of the 90s.

None of those fights were in the 90's.

Mosley vs De La Hoya was 2000. So was the first Barrera-Morales fight.

Oops. Old age playing tricks on me!

It's all a bit of a blur these days!

To be fair, I wasn't far off!

[gilgamesh]

Along with the Barrera Morales fights, one of the best fights of the 90s.

None of those fights were in the 90's.

Mosley vs De La Hoya was 2000. So was the first Barrera-Morales fight.

Oops. Old age playing tricks on me!

It's all a bit of a blur these days!

To be fair, I wasn't far off!

Indeed. Barrera vs Morales was just February of 2000 so the 90's had JUST ended when that one happened.

[Enlightened-One]

And after all that, where would you rank him all time?

I just wanted to point out that most of the guys listed in this poll were considered top-ten pound-for-pounders at the time of their fights against Mayweather. It seems daft to consider most of these guys as being shot or past-their-primes.

And I also found an old post that detailed Floyd's impressive accomplishments.

I just wanted to detail facts to add balance to this one-sided conversation that seems be anti-Mayweather.

I haven't really seriously considered his all time credentials, but I'd rate him top-fifteen (at least).

And as you’re well aware, part of the reason for my lofty ranking of Mayweather is my flat refusal to rate old timers that have gained mythical reputations possessed by those that have never even seen them fight.

[jamesmcdonnell]

None of those fights were in the 90's.

Mosley vs De La Hoya was 2000. So was the first Barrera-Morales fight.

Oops. Old age playing tricks on me!

It's all a bit of a blur these days!

To be fair, I wasn't far off!

Indeed. Barrera vs Morales was just February of 2000 so the 90's had JUST ended when that one happened.

I remember watching Mosley v DLH and being out of breath at times at the sheer pace of it all, it was truly astonishing, they really went at it hammer and tongs.

One thing that cannot be doubted about DLH, he had one hell of a chin on him, because he eat scores of flush shots off of mosley in that fight, and never looked close to being stopped.

[gilgamesh]

And after all that, where would you rank him all time?

I just wanted to point out that most of the guys listed in this poll were considered top-ten pound-for-pounders at the time of their fights against Mayweather.

And I also found an old post that detailed Floyd's impressive accomplishments.

I just wanted to detail facts to add balance to this one-sided conversation that seems be anti-Mayweather.

I haven't really seriously considered his all time credentials, but I'd rate him top-fifteen (at least).

And as you’re well aware, part of the reason for my lofty ranking of Mayweather is my flat refusal to rate old timers that have gained mythical reputations possessed by those that have never even seen them fight.

I have Floyd either Top 15 or just outside of it, and I do rank old timers.

You don't necessarily need to have seen them when you can gather that they fought the best of their era on a steady basis and did well against them. It's a shame for all of us that there isn't more footage of some of the old Legends, but their legacy shouldn't be diminished for that.

That being said, I could see doing a thing like the Hall of Fame does where they chop them up into the Old Timers era, and the Modern Era. But even the "Modern Era" dates back to the 1940's or so.

[gilgamesh]

Oops. Old age playing tricks on me!

It's all a bit of a blur these days!

To be fair, I wasn't far off!

Indeed. Barrera vs Morales was just February of 2000 so the 90's had JUST ended when that one happened.

I remember watching Mosley v DLH and being out of breath at times at the sheer pace of it all, it was truly astonishing, they really went at it hammer and tongs.

One thing that cannot be doubted about DLH, he had one hell of a chin on him, because he eat scores of flush shots off of mosley in that fight, and never looked close to being stopped.

Ya know. That's a big thing that's missing from Boxing now that HBO is gone. Memorable commentary moments to accompany great fights.

That moment in Mosley vs DLH 1 when Lampley is hollering "Both going for it all in a Classic Pitched Battle!" or something like that in the final round.

There's no presentation like that to give fights that bit of extra energy now. HBO always made it seem larger than life.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Indeed. Barrera vs Morales was just February of 2000 so the 90's had JUST ended when that one happened.

I remember watching Mosley v DLH and being out of breath at times at the sheer pace of it all, it was truly astonishing, they really went at it hammer and tongs.

One thing that cannot be doubted about DLH, he had one hell of a chin on him, because he eat scores of flush shots off of mosley in that fight, and never looked close to being stopped.

Ya know. That's a big thing that's missing from Boxing now that HBO is gone. Memorable commentary moments to accompany great fights.

That moment in Mosley vs DLH 1 when Lampley is hollering "Both going for it all in a Classic Pitched Battle!" or something like that in the final round.

There's no presentation like that to give fights that bit of extra energy now. HBO always made it seem larger than life.

Just watched the highlights, Oscar really took some massive shots in that last round, he barely even flinched. Amazing really, whilst not quite a one shot KO artist per se, Mosley was definitely a puncher.

[Enlightened-One]

That being said, I could see doing a thing like the Hall of Fame does where they chop them up into the Old Timers era, and the Modern Era. But even the "Modern Era" dates back to the 1940's or so.

The IBHoF has a separate category for old timers. And I think it's because the people voting in that category are historians/researchers that aren't necessarily experts on the sport of boxing.

People like Dan Rafael have previously refrained from posting votes in that category. And I'm guessing other journalists/pundits have too.

And let's be honest, most of the written accounts of many of the old-timers were written by people that have researched those individuals rather than having seen them in person themselves.

I'm not going to have the legacy debate with you, but I wholeheartedly agree there should be a completely different category for old-timers, because we can't draw honest comparisons with their modern-day counterparts.

[gilgamesh]

That being said, I could see doing a thing like the Hall of Fame does where they chop them up into the Old Timers era, and the Modern Era. But even the "Modern Era" dates back to the 1940's or so.

The IBHoF has a separate category for old timers. And I think it's because the people voting in that category are historians/researchers that aren't necessarily experts on the sport of boxing.

People like Dan Rafael have previously refrained from posting votes in that category. And I'm guessing other journalists/pundits have too.

And let's be honest, most of the written accounts of many of the old-timers were written by people that have researched those individuals rather than having seen them in person themselves.

I'm not going to have the legacy debate with you, but I wholeheartedly agree there should be a completely different category for old-timers, because we can't draw honest comparisons with their modern-day counterparts.

It would seem that what constitutes the difference to the IBHOF between Old Timers and Modern era is the access to video footage of them. Most in the Old Timers category there's 'either no or very limited film footage of. In the Modern era there are still guys you may not see everything on, but video footage will be much more readily available if you care to search it out.

You can still do top research of a fighter without video footage. As far as the Old Timers fighters go. Some of these guys go to Libraries, and seek out every bit of Newspaper articles and fight reports they can find of these guys so it takes a ridiculous amount of time and research to find out all this stuff, so it should certainly be considered. A guy that was a big star, and major draw in terms of attracting an audience anywhere he fought had to have a reputation for some reason.

[Enlightened-One]

That being said, I could see doing a thing like the Hall of Fame does where they chop them up into the Old Timers era, and the Modern Era. But even the "Modern Era" dates back to the 1940's or so.

The IBHoF has a separate category for old timers. And I think it's because the people voting in that category are historians/researchers that aren't necessarily experts on the sport of boxing.

People like Dan Rafael have previously refrained from posting votes in that category. And I'm guessing other journalists/pundits have too.

And let's be honest, most of the written accounts of many of the old-timers were written by people that have researched those individuals rather than having seen them in person themselves.

I'm not going to have the legacy debate with you, but I wholeheartedly agree there should be a completely different category for old-timers, because we can't draw honest comparisons with their modern-day counterparts.

It would seem that what constitutes the difference to the IBHOF between Old Timers and Modern era is the access to video footage of them. Most in the Old Timers category there's 'either no or very limited film footage of. In the Modern era there are still guys you may not see everything on, but video footage will be much more readily available if you care to search it out.

You can still do top research of a fighter without video footage. As far as the Old Timers fighters go. Some of these guys go to Libraries, and seek out every bit of Newspaper articles and fight reports they can find of these guys so it takes a ridiculous amount of time and research to find out all this stuff, so it should certainly be considered. A guy that was a big star, and major draw in terms of attracting an audience anywhere he fought had to have a reputation for some reason.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong about respecting an old-timer or even consider them as being an all-time-great (based on their historical contribution to the sport).

What I completely disagree with though, is people dishonestly pretending that someone like Harry Greb could beat GGG or any other modern-day fighter. And I’m not talking about speculation, I am referring to people that I’ve previously discussed this with who were adamant in their beliefs.

Boxing isn't a religion, whereby our faith is solely based on reading books written by authors conveying a seconhand account of often unverified historical events.

Those that don’t believe in the bible aren’t any less credible or knowledgeable than those that do.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Indeed. Barrera vs Morales was just February of 2000 so the 90's had JUST ended when that one happened.

I remember watching Mosley v DLH and being out of breath at times at the sheer pace of it all, it was truly astonishing, they really went at it hammer and tongs.

One thing that cannot be doubted about DLH, he had one hell of a chin on him, because he eat scores of flush shots off of mosley in that fight, and never looked close to being stopped.

Ya know. That's a big thing that's missing from Boxing now that HBO is gone. Memorable commentary moments to accompany great fights.

That moment in Mosley vs DLH 1 when Lampley is hollering "Both going for it all in a Classic Pitched Battle!" or something like that in the final round.

There's no presentation like that to give fights that bit of extra energy now. HBO always made it seem larger than life.

Yeh, let’s not forget Lampley and his ‘bang bang bang bang’ for the Pac fight..

Moemorable.

[Onetimeonly]

"I will never doubt evander holyfield again!"

[world ranked]

"I will never doubt evander holyfield again!"

Yeah Evander said Pacquaio beat Floyd so....

[Onetimeonly]

"I will never doubt evander holyfield again!"

Yeah Evander said Pacquaio beat Floyd so....

It's a quote from lampley commentary when he dropped bowe while they all were screaming for the fight to be stopped. So....

[world ranked]

"I will never doubt evander holyfield again!"

Yeah Evander said Pacquaio beat Floyd so....

It's a quote from lampley commentary when he dropped bowe while they all were screaming for the fight to be stopped. So....

Never doubt in the ring sure, but outside not so sure with that bad take.