Round-by-Round: Vasyl Lomachenko vs. Teofimo Lopez - October 17, 2020

[Cent0089]

Lomachenko god given talent and a boxing brain from the discount bin at Walmart. Lomachenko learnt nothing from his loss against Salido. You simply can't give, really give your opponent six rounds to start a fight. And if your trainer is not pushing every freaking button after you give up the first five rounds, then it's time to get a new trainer. Unbelievable incompetence.

Yes, he may have been wary of Lopez's power. But standing there and not throwing is not a solution to the problem. He had to work. He had to give Lopez (and the judges) something to think about. He took zero stamina out of Lopez in those rounds. A truly, mindboggingly stupid performance. You look at rounds nine, ten and eleven and see how this fight could've panned out, if he wore out Lopez earlier.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board for Loma.

X2

[oogiebe]

Lomachenko god given talent and a boxing brain from the discount bin at Walmart. Lomachenko learnt nothing from his loss against Salido. You simply can't give, really give your opponent six rounds to start a fight. And if your trainer is not pushing every freaking button after you give up the first five rounds, then it's time to get a new trainer. Unbelievable incompetence.

Yes, he may have been wary of Lopez's power. But standing there and not throwing is not a solution to the problem. He had to work. He had to give Lopez (and the judges) something to think about. He took zero stamina out of Lopez in those rounds. A truly, mindboggingly stupid performance. You look at rounds nine, ten and eleven and see how this fight could've panned out, if he wore out Lopez earlier.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board for Loma.

Yeah, I think Cribber nailed it.

[margaret thatcher]

Facing a better man will often make a fighter stupid

It's one of the most classic things in boxing, dude faces a better opponent and his output goes to shitt puddles

That said, Loma's output was just so awful the first half that it went even beyond what you'd expect, dude was literally throwing single digit shots

[Onetimeonly]

Teo is crazy accurate with those power shots. He'll stop him in a rematch if loma goes balls to the wall.

[mcrow42]

Facing a better man will often make a fighter stupid

It's one of the most classic things in boxing, dude faces a better opponent and his output goes to shitt puddles

That said, Loma's output was just so awful the first half that it went even beyond what you'd expect, dude was literally throwing single digit shots

I think if there is a rematch and Loma presses the action more early I think there's a strong chance he wins. IMO, from the time he started increasing his output to the end of the fight he lost only 1 round. Unfortunately for him, by that point he already lost the fight outside of knockdowns or a KO.

[victor-romeo]

Once again the Vegas mafia strikes.

In a tremendously close fight going into the last Teofimo Lopez pulled out the stops and showed real heart.

Like most of us I expected Loma with his greater experience and skillset to overcome his younger rivals size, reach and power advantages.

Maybe we all underestimated the kid. He was quick, very quick. In fact, no slower than Loma himself. Maybe that Bruce Lee T shirt he was sporting wasn't just for show.

Loma was the more skilled fighter but Lopez was just bigger, stronger and had reach and youth on his side. Even when Lopez dropped his hands and seemed shot (pre the deliberate low-blow), Teo retained just enough menace to keep Loma at bay.

Loma needs to get back to 130 and start stoping opponents again if he wants to win again. He will never win a decision in Vegas against the cartel's favoured A sider.

No eastern European boxer can - they all need a knockout. Ask GGG, ask Kovalev. Now ask Lomachenko. I hope you're listening Mr Pulev.

The cards were stacked against Lomachenko from the start. The cartel got what it wanted - their chosen future cash cow - and will have zero interest in arranging any rematch.

Julie Lederman's absurd scorecard is second only to Adalaide Byrde's. Neither inspiring any confidence in women judges. So inept they couldn't even fake a legit card.

It could have gone either way in the eyes of many watching - but not the judges. They had already decided that the A side was going to win come what may. Ring generalship obviously meant far less to them than delivering what Bob Arum and Top Rank demanded.

As for the outcry, where was it? Ward was surprised, he would be having them level after 10, but somehow he managed to restrain his protestations. Like the rest of them he knows where his future bread is buttered.

Dissenting voices such as Atlas and Malignaggi have been banished. Others like Montero will never get accepted onto boxing's gravy train.

It's almost a waste of time watching any Vegas fight that doesn't end in a stoppage. You know what the result will be.

It's downright foolish to bet against the Vegas 'A sider'

A little perplexed by this considering Loma was the betting favorite and “A” side in the fight. Are you seriously suggesting that Vegas rigged a fight against itself? Or do you believe that organized crime has once again invaded boxing? Both are baseless claims.

The shame in Lederman’s bad card is that it will give rise to this kind of nonsense post-fight accusations.

Does anyone seriously think Loma won that fight?

Perhaps a simple misunderstanding here.

By A side I mean from the promoters/ business cartel angle. Boxings A side is nothing to do with sport and everything to do with future profits.

Loma was the clear pre-fight favourite in most of the fans eyes but it was an open secret that Arum/Top Rank/Vegas etc would all obviously benefit the most from a Teofimo Lopez victory.

I'm not arguing that Lomachenko deserved the win, but it was a very close fight in the ring.

Unfortunately the cards told another story.

They tell us that only way Lomachenko was walking away with the belts on Saturday was via a stoppage. [Ditto GGG v Canelo 1+2 ditto Kovalev v Ward 1+2.]

The judging once again serves to underline the commercial subtext behind most Las Vegas fights. It's got to the point where it's now expected.

Of course there will be no rematch. Why would they risk it again?

We've been arguing about this for decades now, but it really is high time that something was done about the appointment and assessment of boxing officials.

Maybe the last word should go to Bob Arum who can now safely reach for his wallet and breathe a sigh of relief having got exactly what he wanted.

"Lopez won, 7-5 is way I scored it. I can see 8-4, that's a possibility. But you can't score it 11 rounds to 1 and say you watched the fight,"



"Ninth, 10th and 11th weren't close. I would advise any fighter that I have to ask for the commission not to appoint Julie Lederman."

Good 2 posts I agree with a lot of what you say..

[Duran1970]

Really gotta admire the stones on the kid to shun his corners advice to play it safe and don't blow it before the 12th and went out there and fought his ass off..

[conan_the_cribber]

Really gotta admire the stones on the kid to shun his corners advice to play it safe and don't blow it before the 12th and went out there and fought his ass off..

I would say that at Lightweight Loma simply doesn't have one punch power. Overall he's an accumulative puncher, wearing you down, making you think, getting you confused. So I'm guessing that a) Teo wasn't too worried about getting countered and b) being aggressive means you're not thinking any more about what Loma is going to do or where he's going to be. So going forward was definitely the best strategy.

Additionally, he didn't have to worry about gassing out, because it's the last round of the fight and for the first six rounds he was basically sitting on the sofa waiting for Loma to turn up.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Teofimo Lopez reacts after doctor reveals Vasyl Lomachenko had shoulder injury going into their fight and has now undergone surgery

Lopez was quick to respond upon hearing all of this.

He told ESPN: “I was coming into this fight injured as well, if you wanna talk about injuries, but I didn’t make no excuses about it.

“I think that by him doing that, as someone who was considered the number one, pound-for-pound, best boxer in the whole world, to use that excuse, it just looks more bad on him than anything else.”

[NateJR]

Teofimo Lopez reacts after doctor reveals Vasyl Lomachenko had shoulder injury going into their fight and has now undergone surgery

Lopez was quick to respond upon hearing all of this.

He told ESPN: “I was coming into this fight injured as well, if you wanna talk about injuries, but I didn’t make no excuses about it.

“I think that by him doing that, as someone who was considered the number one, pound-for-pound, best boxer in the whole world, to use that excuse, it just looks more bad on him than anything else.”

Truth is, most fighters go into fights with some sort of injury or ailment. They go through weeks of brutal training and sparring which is all wear and tare on the body. Not to mention pre existing injuries from previous training camps and fights. To get out of it without some sort of injury is dang near impossible.

I don't doubt Lomachenko had a shoulder injury. I also don't doubt that Lopez had some injuries going in as well. I've seen guys finish fights with broken jaws, fractured ankles, broken hands, blown out knees. That's just the nature of the sport, you gotta dig deep and tough it out.

Now if things were reversed and Loma has started fast and got tentative the second half, I'd buy into his shoulder injury being a significant factor in the fight. Loma looked like Loma in the second half after his so called injury was aggravated. So at this point it just makes him look bad and would have been better off keeping his mouth shut.

[DrDuke]

Truth is, most fighters go into fights with some sort of injury or ailment. They go through weeks of brutal training and sparring which is all wear and tare on the body. Not to mention pre existing injuries from previous training camps and fights. To get out of it without some sort of injury is dang near impossible.

That's right, injuries go together with professional sport. And Lomachenko seems to be more vulnerable to them.

[mcrow42]

Well, here's the deal. Loma hasn't made any excuses. Just stating you had surgery doesn't mean you're making excuses. People are going to notice he's not training and not in the gym for the next three months. They basically have to say so to avoid people inquiring about it later. Lopez may have had an injury but I doubt it's a shoulder injury that required surgery.

Heck, it sounds like that it had been a problem for two months leading up to the fight. Loma got an injection for it, missed a week of training during that time, and two weeks later it flared up again. Sounds like his dad wanted him to cancel the fight and he didn't. That's kinda the anti-excuse making path.

Lopez was the better fighter that night. We will see if Loma comes back at 100% or not but if he does and this injury was really an issue Lopez probably doesn't win the next fight.

[Thomastearns]

A little perplexed by this considering Loma was the betting favorite and “A” side in the fight. Are you seriously suggesting that Vegas rigged a fight against itself? Or do you believe that organized crime has once again invaded boxing? Both are baseless claims.

The shame in Lederman’s bad card is that it will give rise to this kind of nonsense post-fight accusations.

Does anyone seriously think Loma won that fight?

Perhaps a simple misunderstanding here.

By A side I mean from the promoters/ business cartel angle. Boxings A side is nothing to do with sport and everything to do with future profits.

Loma was the clear pre-fight favourite in most of the fans eyes but it was an open secret that Arum/Top Rank/Vegas etc would all obviously benefit the most from a Teofimo Lopez victory.

I'm not arguing that Lomachenko deserved the win, but it was a very close fight in the ring.

Unfortunately the cards told another story.

They tell us that only way Lomachenko was walking away with the belts on Saturday was via a stoppage. [Ditto GGG v Canelo 1+2 ditto Kovalev v Ward 1+2.]

The judging once again serves to underline the commercial subtext behind most Las Vegas fights. It's got to the point where it's now expected.

Of course there will be no rematch. Why would they risk it again?

We've been arguing about this for decades now, but it really is high time that something was done about the appointment and assessment of boxing officials.

Maybe the last word should go to Bob Arum who can now safely reach for his wallet and breathe a sigh of relief having got exactly what he wanted.

"Lopez won, 7-5 is way I scored it. I can see 8-4, that's a possibility. But you can't score it 11 rounds to 1 and say you watched the fight,"



"Ninth, 10th and 11th weren't close. I would advise any fighter that I have to ask for the commission not to appoint Julie Lederman."

Good 2 posts I agree with a lot of what you say..

Thanks.

I will watch it again but I thought it was close, real close. Given the scorecards I feel something needs to be said.

It's more than a little hypocritical of Bob Arum to now act as if he's annoyed at Julie Lederman's card (119 - 109).

According to Michael Montero, it was Arum himself and Top Rank that decided to fly Lederman all the way from New York (Lopez's home town) to Las Vegas specially for this fight.

So what's Bob really angry about? Lederman overegging the fix?

Naughty girl, don't do it again.

Nevermind Julie, Bob Bennett (head of Nevada State Athletic Comission) will stand by you, as he did with Adalaide Byrd! (118 - 110 Golovkin v Canelo 1).

I couldn't understand why Loma started so slow but it did occur to me later that with such an astonishing career at amateur level and relative inexperience at the pro level maybe Loma, a slow starter by nature simply forgot that pro fights are scored by rounds. Could it be he dropped into amateur fight mode where the points are accumulated round by round?

Sounds a bit far fetched I know, but until Loma speaks, we won't know.

As for the news of the shoulder injury, that must be quite worrying for him, especially after the Covid enhanced layoff.

Nevertheless, it's difficult to see just how Eastern European boxers can ever be the business A side in boxing. There is a clear business hierarchy at work here : US boxers clearly first, Latinos second, and then other English speaking fighters.

As far as I know, there is only exception to this, and that's the truly great Manny Pacquiao.

Anyway, congrats to Teofimo Lopez. He hung in there, and give or take the one well timed low blow, has now got his hands on the belts. No doubt will be looking to do good future business with all his eager partners.

All under the auspices of his current guardian angel, Grampa Bob.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.c ... atform=amp

[Onetimeonly]

Again, her card was better than one having loma winning.

[mcrow42]

Again, her card was better than one having loma winning.

None of the judges had Loma winning. The closest one had Lopez by 4 rounds. I would say 2-3 cards were pretty poorly judged. There's absolutely no way Loma only won, one round. I would say the other one having Lopez 117-111 is not great either but not crazy stupid. I would say Lopez won by 3-4 rounds, if you give Lopez every close round maybe you get to 117-111.

[Onetimeonly]

Again, her card was better than one having loma winning.

None of the judges had Loma winning. The closest one had Lopez by 4 rounds. I would say 2-3 cards were pretty poorly judged. There's absolutely no way Loma only won, one round. I would say the other one having Lopez 117-111 is not great either but not crazy stupid. I would say Lopez won by 3-4 rounds, if you give Lopez every close round maybe you get to 117-111.

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

[mcrow42]

Again, her card was better than one having loma winning.

None of the judges had Loma winning. The closest one had Lopez by 4 rounds. I would say 2-3 cards were pretty poorly judged. There's absolutely no way Loma only won, one round. I would say the other one having Lopez 117-111 is not great either but not crazy stupid. I would say Lopez won by 3-4 rounds, if you give Lopez every close round maybe you get to 117-111.

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

No, it was a unanimous decision. I don't have any issue with who was declared the winner but the fight was much closer than 2 of the 3 judges scored it. The one that scored it 119-111 should be banned from judging boxing because she clearly doesn't know the heck she's watching.

[Onetimeonly]

None of the judges had Loma winning. The closest one had Lopez by 4 rounds. I would say 2-3 cards were pretty poorly judged. There's absolutely no way Loma only won, one round. I would say the other one having Lopez 117-111 is not great either but not crazy stupid. I would say Lopez won by 3-4 rounds, if you give Lopez every close round maybe you get to 117-111.

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

No, it was a unanimous decision. I don't have any issue with who was declared the winner but the fight was much closer than 2 of the 3 judges scored it. The one that scored it 119-111 should be banned from judging boxing because she clearly doesn't know the heck she's watching.

Lol, I watched the fight. I'm just saying a card with loma winning would be worse than hers. He definitely lost. Take what you can get. Beats a robbery.

[mcrow42]

Sure, beats a robbery but if the judging was that far off the other way (which we have seen before) it would have been a robbery. There's zero reasons three people watching the same fight can't be within a couple of rounds of each other.

[Onetimeonly]

Sure, beats a robbery but if the judging was that far off the other way (which we have seen before) it would have been a robbery. There's zero reasons three people watching the same fight can't be within a couple of rounds of each other.

Judges have always sucked, no argument here. Just glad I didn't lose money and teo lose his moment because of it.

[gilgamesh]

Again, her card was better than one having loma winning.

None of the judges had Loma winning. The closest one had Lopez by 4 rounds. I would say 2-3 cards were pretty poorly judged. There's absolutely no way Loma only won, one round. I would say the other one having Lopez 117-111 is not great either but not crazy stupid. I would say Lopez won by 3-4 rounds, if you give Lopez every close round maybe you get to 117-111.

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

I had it 115-113, but yeah Loma lost.

Taylor-Hopkins 1 all over again. The Old Champ started too late. Had already lost the fight before he started fighting it.

[mcrow42]

None of the judges had Loma winning. The closest one had Lopez by 4 rounds. I would say 2-3 cards were pretty poorly judged. There's absolutely no way Loma only won, one round. I would say the other one having Lopez 117-111 is not great either but not crazy stupid. I would say Lopez won by 3-4 rounds, if you give Lopez every close round maybe you get to 117-111.

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

I had it 115-113, but yeah Loma lost.

Taylor-Hopkins 1 all over again. The Old Champ started too late. Had already lost the fight before he started fighting it.

Yeah, I had it 115-113 too. To me that's one where I start holding my breath with the judges. You get within 3 rounds and judges could totally crap the bed. The crapped the bed in this one too, it just happened that the two judges that crapped the bed went the way of the fighter that should have won. I mean, seriously what that one judge was watching I have no clue. I could see it 60-54 for Lopez for the first 6 but Loma pretty clearly won the next 4-5 rounds before losing the 12th.

[gilgamesh]

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

I had it 115-113, but yeah Loma lost.

Taylor-Hopkins 1 all over again. The Old Champ started too late. Had already lost the fight before he started fighting it.

Yeah, I had it 115-113 too. To me that's one where I start holding my breath with the judges. You get within 3 rounds and judges could totally crap the bed. The crapped the bed in this one too, it just happened that the two judges that crapped the bed went the way of the fighter that should have won. I mean, seriously what that one judge was watching I have no clue. I could see it 60-54 for Lopez for the first 6 but Loma pretty clearly won the next 4-5 rounds before losing the 12th.

Yeah the 119-109 scorecard was ludicrous

Lomachenko definitely won at least 3 rounds clear as a f*cking bell. Like where he not only was landing better shots, but Lopez looked in potential danger of being stopped in spots there.

There were at least 3 rounds like that, and a few others that were close.

[Onetimeonly]

None of the judges had Loma winning. The closest one had Lopez by 4 rounds. I would say 2-3 cards were pretty poorly judged. There's absolutely no way Loma only won, one round. I would say the other one having Lopez 117-111 is not great either but not crazy stupid. I would say Lopez won by 3-4 rounds, if you give Lopez every close round maybe you get to 117-111.

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

I had it 115-113, but yeah Loma lost.

Taylor-Hopkins 1 all over again. The Old Champ started too late. Had already lost the fight before he started fighting it.

He started too late but man Lopez is a nasty accurate counter puncher. Loma isn't used to bombs barely missing and landing when he did step it up. Loma impressed me. 12th Rd was the most impressive thing I've seen in years. Time for Justin to take out the religious gangster.

[Onetimeonly]

Ya think? It wasn't a split? The right man won, I had 116-112. Loma lost.

I had it 115-113, but yeah Loma lost.

Taylor-Hopkins 1 all over again. The Old Champ started too late. Had already lost the fight before he started fighting it.

Yeah, I had it 115-113 too. To me that's one where I start holding my breath with the judges. You get within 3 rounds and judges could totally crap the bed. The crapped the bed in this one too, it just happened that the two judges that crapped the bed went the way of the fighter that should have won. I mean, seriously what that one judge was watching I have no clue. I could see it 60-54 for Lopez for the first 6 but Loma pretty clearly won the next 4-5 rounds before losing the 12th.

I had it 7-0. If loma didn't get lit up in the 12th a draw wouldn't have been bad.