Is Rocky Marciano overrated?

[mayorcurley]

Whaddy think? Small heavyweight, bad footwork, easy HW era?

How would he fare against guys like Ray Mercer and David Tua?

[Onamastus]

Oh god here we go again.

Time for the monthly bash Rocky Marciano thread.

[bwu]

The answer to your question is no, he is not overrated.

Marciano would have done to Mercer and Tua, a fine pair of fighters, what he would’ve done to most of history’s heavyweights: Knocked them out.

All your observations are correct. But despite those limitations, his toughness, underrated athleticism and obvious courage would make him competitive in any era.

[Cojimar 1946]

The answer to your question is no, he is not overrated.

Marciano would have done to Mercer and Tua, a fine pair of fighters, what he would’ve done to most of history’s heavyweights: Knocked them out.

All your observations are correct. But despite those limitations, his toughness, underrated athleticism and obvious courage would make him competitive in any era.

I don't think Marciano ever stopped anyone as durable as Mercer or Tua or even close.

Isn't it more likely he would fight at light heavyweight today?

[gilgamesh]

Whaddy think? Small heavyweight, bad footwork, easy HW era?

How would he fare against guys like Ray Mercer and David Tua?

He could probably win a decision against either of them, though either of them winning by KO against him is a possibility.

They'd be amazing fights.

[gilgamesh]

The answer to your question is no, he is not overrated.

Marciano would have done to Mercer and Tua, a fine pair of fighters, what he would’ve done to most of history’s heavyweights: Knocked them out.

All your observations are correct. But despite those limitations, his toughness, underrated athleticism and obvious courage would make him competitive in any era.

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

[DrDuke]

The answer to your question is no, he is not overrated.

Marciano would have done to Mercer and Tua, a fine pair of fighters, what he would’ve done to most of history’s heavyweights: Knocked them out.

All your observations are correct. But despite those limitations, his toughness, underrated athleticism and obvious courage would make him competitive in any era.

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

Tua was KOed in the amateurs by Felix Savon hard. Rahman also dropped him right after the final bell in their rematch.

Mercer wasn't KOed until the later stages of his career.

These two had granite chins, but weren't as freakish as McCall or Chuvalo. Clean Marciano's punch could KO both Mercer and Tua. Marciano was a very big puncher.

I'd pick Rocky to handle both Mercer and Tua.

[mayorcurley]

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

I don't think Tua or Mercer were ever knocked down in their careers.

[Onamastus]

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

I don't think Tua or Mercer were ever knocked down in their careers.

They were both knocked down, but only once they were too old to be boxing. Mercer against Klitschko and Briggs, Tua against Barrett

[mayorcurley]

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

I don't think Tua or Mercer were ever knocked down in their careers.

They were both knocked down, but only once they were too old to be boxing. Mercer against Klitschko and Briggs, Tua against Barrett

Mercer got kicked in the head flush against some very accomplished kickboxer. Didn't go down.

Gotta love those mixed combat contests. Like Butterbean knocking out MMA guy James Thompson.

[DrDuke]

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

I don't think Tua or Mercer were ever knocked down in their careers.

They were both knocked down, but only once they were too old to be boxing. Mercer against Klitschko and Briggs, Tua against Barrett

Mercer was also down against Holyfield. However, that looked a bit weird, with delayed reaction.

[gilgamesh]

The answer to your question is no, he is not overrated.

Marciano would have done to Mercer and Tua, a fine pair of fighters, what he would’ve done to most of history’s heavyweights: Knocked them out.

All your observations are correct. But despite those limitations, his toughness, underrated athleticism and obvious courage would make him competitive in any era.

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

Tua was KOed in the amateurs by Felix Savon hard. Rahman also dropped him right after the final bell in their rematch.

Mercer wasn't KOed until the later stages of his career.

These two had granite chins, but weren't as freakish as McCall or Chuvalo. Clean Marciano's punch could KO both Mercer and Tua. Marciano was a very big puncher.

I'd pick Rocky to handle both Mercer and Tua.

I got a chuckle at him going down in the Rahman rematch because Rahman pointed at him when he went down, but it was just a smidge too late. He would've got the decision had that happened a second earlier.

Was more of a balance thing though than him being hurt. He was aggressively on the front foot attacking, and Rahman hit him with a shot that knocked him off balance. I remember as soon as he hit the mat he stood up immediately.

I think Marciano could KO Tua, if Tua just stood there with his arms down letting him tee off on him maybe. I don't see it otherwise though.

With Mercer it's a little more likely to happen, but I wouldn't pick Marciano by KO in either case. Him winning by Decision though like I say, I can easily imagine.

[gilgamesh]

I don't think Tua or Mercer were ever knocked down in their careers.

They were both knocked down, but only once they were too old to be boxing. Mercer against Klitschko and Briggs, Tua against Barrett

Mercer got kicked in the head flush against some very accomplished kickboxer. Didn't go down.

Gotta love those mixed combat contests. Like Butterbean knocking out MMA guy James Thompson.

Wladimir Klitschko battered a past prime Mercer in 2002. Stopped him on his feet. It does seem like he might've dropped him somewhere in there, but it's been so long I forget.

He didn't drop him for the count though. Ref stopped it.

Mercer was a tough SOB.

Hell as far as I know wasn't Marciano knocked down more than both of them combined?

Moore dropped him, Walcott dropped him. I don't doubt he was knocked down other times, but I can't name them off the top of my head.

[margaret thatcher]

I don't think Tua or Mercer were ever knocked down in their careers.

They were both knocked down, but only once they were too old to be boxing. Mercer against Klitschko and Briggs, Tua against Barrett

Mercer got kicked in the head flush against some very accomplished kickboxer. Didn't go down.

Gotta love those mixed combat contests. Like Butterbean knocking out MMA guy James Thompson.

True, although he did immediately quit like 20 seconds in when Bonjasky kicked him lol, tbf he shouldnt have been fighting at that point, let alone in kickboxing

[DrDuke]

Was Tua ever even knocked down? If so it wasn't until late in his career.

Hard to imagine him being knocked out by hardly anybody honestly. Not hard at all to imagine him being bested via decision by being outworked.

Tua was KOed in the amateurs by Felix Savon hard. Rahman also dropped him right after the final bell in their rematch.

Mercer wasn't KOed until the later stages of his career.

These two had granite chins, but weren't as freakish as McCall or Chuvalo. Clean Marciano's punch could KO both Mercer and Tua. Marciano was a very big puncher.

I'd pick Rocky to handle both Mercer and Tua.

I got a chuckle at him going down in the Rahman rematch because Rahman pointed at him when he went down, but it was just a smidge too late. He would've got the decision had that happened a second earlier.

Was more of a balance thing though than him being hurt. He was aggressively on the front foot attacking, and Rahman hit him with a shot that knocked him off balance. I remember as soon as he hit the mat he stood up immediately.

I think Marciano could KO Tua, if Tua just stood there with his arms down letting him tee off on him maybe. I don't see it otherwise though.

With Mercer it's a little more likely to happen, but I wouldn't pick Marciano by KO in either case. Him winning by Decision though like I say, I can easily imagine.

Well, after Savon countered Tua and sent him down, Tua wasn't out cold, but he was hurt and wobbled. That fight could be stopped even in the pros. I can see Marciano and Tua trading right hands and Tua eating the lethal one.

[DrDuke]

They were both knocked down, but only once they were too old to be boxing. Mercer against Klitschko and Briggs, Tua against Barrett

Mercer got kicked in the head flush against some very accomplished kickboxer. Didn't go down.

Gotta love those mixed combat contests. Like Butterbean knocking out MMA guy James Thompson.

Wladimir Klitschko battered a past prime Mercer in 2002. Stopped him on his feet. It does seem like he might've dropped him somewhere in there, but it's been so long I forget.

He didn't drop him for the count though. Ref stopped it.

Mercer was a tough SOB.

Hell as far as I know wasn't Marciano knocked down more than both of them combined?

Moore dropped him, Walcott dropped him. I don't doubt he was knocked down other times, but I can't name them off the top of my head.

Yeah, Klitschko dropped Mercer before stopping him on his feet.

So, Mercer has 3 official KDs: Holy, Briggs, Wlad. Tua has a one against Barrett. Marciano has two: against Walcott and Moore. So, if I recall it correctly, it's Tua (1) - Marciano (2) - Mercer (3).

[gilgamesh]

Wasn't Tua dropped officially one time? Maybe against Monte Barrett when he was past it? Maybe it was "he got cut" I was thinking of. For the longest he was neither knocked down nor cut.

The Rahman knockdown doesn't count. It wasn't official.

[DrDuke]

Wasn't Tua dropped officially one time?

The Rahman knockdown doesn't count. It wasn't official.

Barrett KD is official.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya the official kd was vs barrett

[gilgamesh]

Wasn't Tua dropped officially one time?

The Rahman knockdown doesn't count. It wasn't official.

Barrett KD is official.

I thought it was Barrett

[Onetimeonly]

Marciano, like most fighters, is overrated by some and underrated by others. If you see him top 50 p4p all time...Over. if you see someone saying he would be a light heavy and too small for a tub of goo like areola or kownacki...Under.

Tua and Mercer I'd tab him to outpoint, but he isn't knocking those guys cold. Evander with his short, concise counter and lead hooks would floor tua.

[gilgamesh]

Marciano, like most fighters, is overrated by some and underrated by others. If you see him top 50 p4p all time...Over. if you see someone saying he would be a light heavy and too small for a tub of goo like areola or kownacki...Under.

Tua and Mercer I'd tab him to outpoint, but he isn't knocking those guys cold. Evander with his short, concise counter and lead hooks would floor tua.

Hell he was at least a Cruiserweight wasn't he?

Didn't he usually weigh between 180 and 190?

He likely could've made Light Heavyweight then if he'd been so inclined, but he wanted the money of fighting the bigger guys. If that's his mentality. He might still do it even in the modern era.

Expressing my outrage about the WBC's new decision, I've seen people say there's no minimal limit, so theoretically a guy could weigh 200 and fight the big boys.

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

When Roy Jones weighed 193 for Ruiz, the Cruiserweight division hadn't yet been changed to 200 pounds.

I'm getting off topic here though. Your opinion of whether or not he's over or underrated seems pretty well accurate.

[DrDuke]

Marciano, like most fighters, is overrated by some and underrated by others. If you see him top 50 p4p all time...Over. if you see someone saying he would be a light heavy and too small for a tub of goo like areola or kownacki...Under.

Tua and Mercer I'd tab him to outpoint, but he isn't knocking those guys cold. Evander with his short, concise counter and lead hooks would floor tua.

Hell he was at least a Cruiserweight wasn't he?

Didn't he usually weigh between 180 and 190?

He likely could've made Light Heavyweight then if he'd been so inclined, but he wanted the money of fighting the bigger guys. If that's his mentality. He might still do it even in the modern era.

Expressing my outrage about the WBC's new decision, I've seen people say there's no minimal limit, so theoretically a guy could weigh 200 and fight the big boys.

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

When Roy Jones weighed 193 for Ruiz, the Cruiserweight division hadn't yet been changed to 200 pounds.

I'm getting off topic here though. Your opinion of whether or not he's over or underrated seems pretty well accurate.

Marciano was around 185 most often. I think, in whatever era he would have been, he would make HW limit. I think, that's just what he wanted.

[gilgamesh]

Yes, Ditto

[Onetimeonly]

Marciano, like most fighters, is overrated by some and underrated by others. If you see him top 50 p4p all time...Over. if you see someone saying he would be a light heavy and too small for a tub of goo like areola or kownacki...Under.

Tua and Mercer I'd tab him to outpoint, but he isn't knocking those guys cold. Evander with his short, concise counter and lead hooks would floor tua.

Hell he was at least a Cruiserweight wasn't he?

Didn't he usually weigh between 180 and 190?

He likely could've made Light Heavyweight then if he'd been so inclined, but he wanted the money of fighting the bigger guys. If that's his mentality. He might still do it even in the modern era.

Expressing my outrage about the WBC's new decision, I've seen people say there's no minimal limit, so theoretically a guy could weigh 200 and fight the big boys.

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

When Roy Jones weighed 193 for Ruiz, the Cruiserweight division hadn't yet been changed to 200 pounds.

I'm getting off topic here though. Your opinion of whether or not he's over or underrated seems pretty well accurate.

He was a piece of steel. Surely he could juice up over 200 now. Rocky had short dimensions, but you hear the same shit about Louis. Armstrong had several welter title defenses when he weighed below lightweight.

He was a career high 142 challenging Garcia for the middle belt.