Vitaly Klitschko vs Sonny Liston

[mayorcurley]

6'7" 250 lbs Dr. Ironfist
vs 6'1" 215 lbs Sonny Liston

Dr. Ironfist utilizes his 6 inch height and 35 pound weight advantage to hammer Liston with the piston like Ukranian power lever.

Any Liston hooks that get through are handled by the steel chinned giant.

Vitaly by late stoppage. Round 9.

Liston says, "First Clay, now this?"

[DrDuke]

Liston would use his jab to get closer and score. Liston's jab was good enough to counteract to Klitschko's one. Vitali's chin was freakish, but still Klitschko could be hurt, as Lewis did that to him. Liston would make it a fight, Vitali would accept it, Liston would outfight Vitali. You gotta be slicker to defeat Liston. I'd pick Liston by UD.

[AntonioMartin]

6'7" 250 lbs Dr. Ironfist
vs 6'1" 215 lbs Sonny Liston

Dr. Ironfist utilizes his 6 inch height and 35 pound weight advantage to hammer Liston with the piston like Ukranian power lever.

Any Liston hooks that get through are handled by the steel chinned giant.

Vitaly by late stoppage. Round 9.

Liston says, "First Clay, now this?"

im with you on this one..

[goose 5]

Vitali Klit owns Liston in this one. Too big and too tough and too good. Liston would be dwarfed and stopped around the mid rounds.

[gilgamesh]

Vitali does well early. Liston I believe would keep trying to get in close, and break down the body bit by bit. It'd start to get more competitive around the 6th, and Liston would give Vitali a lot of problems down the stretch.

I suspect in the end Vitali would win a hard fought decision by 115-113 or 116-112 margins. Neither is exactly known for their stamina, but I think that'd be a wash in this fight. It'd just be a matter of who wants it more. Vitali has more fighting heart than Liston so I'd favor him.

[margaret thatcher]

Waiting for alp to come in raging

[Djanders44]

I've thought a lot about Sonny through the years. Because of his fights with Ali, I actually think Sonny is often under rated. His biggest drawbacks were lack of stamina and the inability to adjust, and avoid getting discouraged, to a slick boxer, such as Ali. I see Vitali as a boxer-puncher, but he didn't box at Ali's level. Liston would stay after him and would hit him enough to keep hurting him. I have to go with a Liston win, probably by a middle to late round TKO.

[p4p1]

Amazingly, Vitali is giving away 5 1/2 inches in reach. Liston is underrated IMO, understandably defined by his losses to Ali. But his losses outside of that came in his 8th pro fight and his second last fight at 39+ years old. If not for Ali I doubt Liston loses the title until around that time. I think the matchup is horrible for Frazier the same way Foreman was. Anyway, I think Vitali is a bit too slow too slow allowing Liston to use his jab to great effect. Liston takes a decision IMO but if anyone can knock Vitali out it is Liston.

[margaret thatcher]

Certainly not underrated here, he's treated like some man gawd wrecking ball

[DrDuke]

Nah, Liston isn't underrated. He was completely different fighter in comparison to Foreman. If Liston lasted until Frazier was given a shot, Liston would be dethroned.

[p4p1]

Nah, Liston isn't underrated. He was completely different fighter in comparison to Foreman. If Liston lasted until Frazier was given a shot, Liston would be dethroned.

Very different fighter but I am pretty sure George did say that it was Liston who (directly or indirectly) taught him how to keep someone like Frazier off you and on the outside. Liston did have better skills than George. I just don't think it's a good style match up for Frazier despite him being the greater fighter. I could see Frazier grinding him down especially in the late 60's but I think he would take a lot of punishment doing so.

[DrDuke]

Nah, Liston isn't underrated. He was completely different fighter in comparison to Foreman. If Liston lasted until Frazier was given a shot, Liston would be dethroned.

Very different fighter but I am pretty sure George did say that it was Liston who (directly or indirectly) taught him how to keep someone like Frazier off you and on the outside. Liston did have better skills than George. I just don't think it's a good style match up for Frazier despite him being the greater fighter. I could see Frazier grinding him down especially in the late 60's but I think he would take a lot of punishment doing so.

Liston had an overall better skillset than Foreman, but I won't call his game stylistically bad for Frazier. He had different anthropometrics and utilized different techniques. If to imagine Liston trying to keep Frazier outside, I'd see him using his jab, moving away. Foreman kept Frazier with more crude methods, pushing him, blocking with arms Frazier's attempts of going inside, not backling up. Moreover, Foreman was a tougher and more durable fighter than Liston. Sure, Liston would trouble Frazier early, but then he would get overwhelmed by Smokin' Joe.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Liston would have a 5 inch reach advantage

Vitali showed a good chin. I think liston would quit in the end since he was a quitter

[p4p1]

Liston may or may not have quit in the first Ali fight. I think he probably realised he was on a hiding to nothing and chucked it in. Klitchscko also did the same thing against Byrd. Liston fought through a broken jaw early on in his career was in a few wars. Quitters don't do that.

[DrDuke]

Liston may or may not have quit in the first Ali fight. I think he probably realised he was on a hiding to nothing and chucked it in. Klitchscko also did the same thing against Byrd. Liston fought through a broken jaw early on in his career was in a few wars. Quitters don't do that.

People just like labels. When fighter quits once, he can end up being remembered as a quitter. No one gives a sh!t about circumstances around.

Still the likes of Duran and Morales will always be remembered as warriors despite cases of quitting. But some others won't.

Some cases of quitting are shameful, some aren't. Liston's quit in the Ali rematch is shameful for sure, more shameful than the one in the 1st fight, where he had already been beaten up enough, just like Morales against Pac, for instance. Vitali's quit against Byrd is also less shameful than the Liston's quit in the Ali rematch.

Anyway, Liston can be not a quitter, but he edged Vitali in quitting with a score of 2-1.

[Ambling Alp II]

Liston may or may not have quit in the first Ali fight. I think he probably realised he was on a hiding to nothing and chucked it in. Klitchscko also did the same thing against Byrd. Liston fought through a broken jaw early on in his career was in a few wars. Quitters don't do that.

Well he did quit in the first Ali fight. It was starting to look hopeless to win and he probably wasn't going to last 9 more rounds. It wasn't as bad as Klitschko against Byrd, but he did quit. Hard to describe what happened in the 2nd Ali fight. Technically, he did not get up in time. Obviously he could have but was likely trying to take a dive.

But you are right, he continued with a broken jaw. Even if you count both of the Ali fights as quitting, he still "only" quit twice in all the big fights that he had. Klitschko quit in 50% of the big fights that he had.
At any rate, Liston would win mainly because he was a far superior fighter. Probably a stoppage in 5-8 rounds.

[margaret thatcher]

2 quitters then

[AntonioMartin]

Klitschko by UD

[DrDuke]

Waiting for alp to come in raging

And there he goes:

Well he did quit in the first Ali fight. It was starting to look hopeless to win and he probably wasn't going to last 9 more rounds. It wasn't as bad as Klitschko against Byrd, but he did quit. Hard to describe what happened in the 2nd Ali fight. Technically, he did not get up in time. Obviously he could have but was likely trying to take a dive.

But you are right, he continued with a broken jaw. Even if you count both of the Ali fights as quitting, he still "only" quit twice in all the big fights that he had. Klitschko quit in 50% of the big fights that he had.
At any rate, Liston would win mainly because he was a far superior fighter. Probably a stoppage in 5-8 rounds.

[Cojimar 1946]

Liston being better than Klitschko isn't really born out by the competition he beat. Who did he beat that Klitschko couldn't beat? His most famous win is over a guy who by the standards of Klitschko's era is a light heavyweight.

[Ambling Alp II]

Don't care to get into the dumbass weight thing. If you don't get it by now you probably never will.
There isn't anyone that Liston beat that Klitschko "couldn't beat". On a given night, many different things can happen in boxing.
However, Liston did beat Patterson 2x, Machen, and Folley.
There is certainly nobody that Klitschko ever beat that Liston would have had much trouble with.
At a certain point, you have to trust your eyes and brain and watch the fights (if there is a lot of footage of the two).
Liston was clearly better.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Quitting with a legit shoulder injury gets more leeway from me than quitting with a fake one

Taking that out of it

Klitschko has an iron chin so sonny wouldn't ko him

Klitschko fought an awkward style off the back foot. He wasnt super quick so liston would jab and get inside but hed take shots on the way in from a big man at awkward angles

I do thin vitali would take it

[p4p1]

Quitting with a legit shoulder injury gets more leeway from me than quitting with a fake one

Taking that out of it

Klitschko has an iron chin so sonny wouldn't ko him

Klitschko fought an awkward style off the back foot. He wasnt super quick so liston would jab and get inside but hed take shots on the way in from a big man at awkward angles

I do thin vitali would take it

Why does Liston need to get on the inside?

[Ambling Alp II]

And why does Klitschko have an "iron chin" that means Liston couldn't stop him?
Where is the proof proof that?

Klitschko quit in a fight that had 3 rounds to go. Liston quit in a fight where he was getting beat up had little chance to win and had 9 rounds to go. Of the two, Klitschko's quit job was worse.

Liston had a much better jab. Was the faster of the two. Had much more power. It's hard to come up with anything that Klitschko was actually better at. Liston was simply a better fighter. When one guy is that much better, he is almost always going to win.

[Cojimar 1946]

Vitali probably holds the edge in mental toughness, durability, physical strength, and stamina/workrate. There are fights were Vitali threw over 700/800 punches in 12 rounds. One path to beating Liston is simply outworking him.