Why Vitali Klitschko is Great

[Ambling Alp II]

Actually, Dempsey and Jeffries fought most of the top guys from their eras. Jeffries fought a draw with and beat Choynski, Sharkey (2x), Fitzsimmons (2x), Corbett (2x), and Ruhlin (2x). Sure he could have fought others but it dwarfs what Klitschko did.

Take a look at who Dempsey beat before he even fought for the title: Fulton, Morris, Miske, Brennan. Beat Willard, and Firpo. Should have fought Wills, but he certainly beat several serious contenders.

Corrie Sanders was a fringe contender at best. He was not highly regarded at all. Only thing he has is the KO over Glassjaw.
Samuel Peter is really the best Klitschko ever beat? wow.

You can nitpick anyone. You have to grasp at straws for anything that Klitschko did.

[Cojimar 1946]

Actually, Dempsey and Jeffries fought most of the top guys from their eras. Jeffries fought a draw with and beat Choynski, Sharkey (2x), Fitzsimmons (2x), Corbett (2x), and Ruhlin (2x). Sure he could have fought others but it dwarfs what Klitschko did.

Take a look at who Dempsey beat before he even fought for the title: Fulton, Morris, Miske, Brennan. Beat Willard, and Firpo. Should have fought Wills, but he certainly beat several serious contenders.

Corrie Sanders was a fringe contender at best. He was not highly regarded at all. Only thing he has is the KO over Glassjaw.
Samuel Peter is really the best Klitschko ever beat? wow.

You can nitpick anyone. You have to grasp at straws for anything that Klitschko did.

With all due respect to Dempsey I don't think the likes of Morris, Fulton, Firpo were very good. I'm not sure I would pick them over the likes of Larry Donald H2H

The three best of Dempsey's era were Wills, Greb, and Tunney in my opinion. He didn't fight two of them and Tunney beat him twice

[DrDuke]

Vitali never beat one of the stronger fighters of his weak era.

Sanders and Peter are among the best of that era.

No, they aren't.

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

[Trent]

Depends what you mean by "great" . If by great you mean on par with Ali, Louis and lewis I'll have to disagree. You answered this question yourself in vitali notable wins category.

In saying that. In my own subjective mythical mind i do believe Vitali would have been competitive with those guys making him a possible great if he had the better opposition to fight.

[AntonioMartin]

IBHOF'er.....although some of the people there dont belong I agree...

[gilgamesh]

Sanders and Peter are among the best of that era.

No, they aren't.

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

The only thing of note Sanders did in the 90's was lose to Hasim Rahman.

Sam Peter. I don't know if he makes the Top 10 of the 2000's, but if he does he's on the tail end of it.

His biggest wins are the rematch with James Toney and Oleg Maskaev I'd say, and I guess barely squeaking by Jameel McCline is his 3rd best.

[DrDuke]

No, they aren't.

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

The only thing of note Sanders did in the 90's was lose to Hasim Rahman.

Sam Peter. I don't know if he makes the Top 10 of the 2000's, but if he does he's on the tail end of it.

His biggest wins are the rematch with James Toney and Oleg Maskaev I'd say, and I guess barely squeaking by Jameel McCline is his 3rd best.

I'd say, he won the 1st against Toney as well, it wasn't a robbery for me.

There was a thread about the best HWs of the 2000s. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=222339

As you can see, I placed Peter exactly at the end of the top. And being a top 10 fighter of the era means something, I guess.

[Counter-puncher]

yeah it means something, it means that was a sh1tty era

[gilgamesh]

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

The only thing of note Sanders did in the 90's was lose to Hasim Rahman.

Sam Peter. I don't know if he makes the Top 10 of the 2000's, but if he does he's on the tail end of it.

His biggest wins are the rematch with James Toney and Oleg Maskaev I'd say, and I guess barely squeaking by Jameel McCline is his 3rd best.

I'd say, he won the 1st against Toney as well, it wasn't a robbery for me.

There was a thread about the best HWs of the 2000s. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=222339

As you can see, I placed Peter exactly at the end of the top. And being a top 10 fighter of the era means something, I guess.

I thought Toney won the 1st bout. 2nd fight Peter won clear.

[gilgamesh]

yeah it means something, it means that was a sh1tty era

Yep

[Onetimeonly]

Sanders and Peter are among the best of that era.

No, they aren't.

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

No, he wasn't.

[Onetimeonly]

IBHOF'er.....although some of the people there dont belong I agree...

He's the least deserving in there.

[DrDuke]

No, they aren't.

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

No, he wasn't.

How high would you rate him in the post-Lewis era? Will he be in your top-10?

[gilgamesh]

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

No, he wasn't.

How high would you rate him in the post-Lewis era? Will he be in your top-10?

Sanders, Vitai or Peter?

[DrDuke]

No, he wasn't.

How high would you rate him in the post-Lewis era? Will he be in your top-10?

Sanders, Vitai or Peter?

Peter.

[gilgamesh]

How high would you rate him in the post-Lewis era? Will he be in your top-10?

Sanders, Vitai or Peter?

Peter.

Post Lewis era being 2003 to now.

No.

It'd go something like this.

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Tyson Fury (if he beats Joshua, he passes up Wlad)
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Anthony Joshua
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Deontay Wilder
7. Joseph Parker
8. Ruslan Chagaev
9. Luis Ortiz
and much as I hate to say it
10. David Haye

Peter probably comes in at 11 or 12 I'd imagine though...for now.

[DrDuke]

Sanders, Vitai or Peter?

Peter.

Post Lewis era being 2003 to now.

No.

It'd go something like this.

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Tyson Fury (if he beats Joshua, he passes up Wlad)
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Anthony Joshua
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Deontay Wilder
7. Joseph Parker
8. Ruslan Chagaev
9. Luis Ortiz
and much as I hate to say it
10. David Haye

Peter probably comes in at 11 or 12 I'd imagine though...for now.

Well, I meant that part of the post-Lewis era, which contained the short period with the split of the titles and the Klitschko era, as the initial talk had been about Vitali and his legacy.

If to rank until now, it'll be a different story completely. I have it quite similar to you:

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Tyson Fury (yes, I agree, that when he beats Joshua, he passes up Wlad)
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin (he beat more solid opponents than Vitali)
5. Vitali Klitschko
6. Deontay Wilder
7. David Haye
8. Dillian Whyte
9. Joseph Parker
10. Andy Ruiz Jr

Peter to be out of top 10 clearly.

[Cojimar 1946]

Vitali was retired before the likes of Joshua, Wilder, etc emerged and can't be faulted for not fighting them as they were not from his era. Tyson Fury would have been a credible fight in 2012 but at that point Vitali was 40 years old and well past his prime.

He's been criticized for not fighting Rahman but given Rahman was ko'd twice by Oleg Maskaev I'm not sure what that would do for him legacy wise. Critics would point out Rahman lost to Maskaev by kayo twice and say Vitali beating him is meaningless.

[gilgamesh]

Vitali was retired before the likes of Joshua, Wilder, etc emerged and can't be faulted for not fighting them as they were not from his era.

He might have fought Tyson Fury in 2012 but at that point Vitali was well past his prime.

He can't be faulted for not fighting Joshua or Wilder, but he can be faulted for not fighting Hasim Rahman, Lamon Brewster, attempting to avenge the loss to Chris Byrd.

He didn't particularly fight the best of his own era either.

The 2 best guys he fought. He lost.

Injuries sure, but he lost.

[Onetimeonly]

You can argue on Sanders, cause he was a sorta 90s fighter and his career was at the final stages in 2000s, he had no success after 2003, but Peter was clearly among the best fighters mid - late 2000s era could suggest.

No, he wasn't.

How high would you rate him in the post-Lewis era? Will he be in your top-10?

You're correct that a direct time line for an era is dodgy but he rates behind Lewis, wlad, Byrd, Ruiz, rahman, tua, oldyfield, toney, Ike, haye, valuev, ibragimov

Granted a couple are arguable others like chagaev could fill in. If you beat the 10th best guy you could have fought you didn't beat anybody of strength in your era.

[AntonioMartin]

IBHOF'er.....although some of the people there dont belong I agree...

He's the least deserving in there.

Not quite..Ingemar Johannsson, Sylvester Stallone, JJ Braddock, even my buddy Tony DeMarco are arguably less deserving IMO. (Don't tell Tony I said that!)

[gilgamesh]

IBHOF'er.....although some of the people there dont belong I agree...

He's the least deserving in there.

I don't know about least deserving, but he definitely gets overrated by a lot.

[Onetimeonly]

IBHOF'er.....although some of the people there dont belong I agree...

He's the least deserving in there.

Not quite..Ingemar Johannsson, Sylvester Stallone, JJ Braddock, even my buddy Tony DeMarco are arguably less deserving IMO. (Don't tell Tony I said that!)

Stallone is much more deserving than Leroy nieman as a non participant. The others are more worthy than vitali as fighters.

[AntonioMartin]

He's the least deserving in there.

Not quite..Ingemar Johannsson, Sylvester Stallone, JJ Braddock, even my buddy Tony DeMarco are arguably less deserving IMO. (Don't tell Tony I said that!)

Stallone is much more deserving than Leroy nieman as a non participant. The others are more worthy than vitali as fighters.

I'll tell you what..I dont know if it was Tony himself or another buddy we had in common but one day I got a call from Boston and someone of their group told me there was a movement to put Tony in the IBHOF..now I love Tony DeMarco the human and the boxer, but I respectfully kept silent...

Klitschko on the other hand was the best of his era and made a few successful defenses of his titles..I mean, sure, he lost to Byrd and all but he was way ahead on points and lost due to a freak injury..His accomplishments have to count for something at least. This topic to me is like the abortion topic, where "between "it's the woman's choice" and "the baby has the right to life" Im on the fence...(BTW not to get off topic too much but I tend to favor baby rights with adoption option)

[DrDuke]

Klitschko on the other hand was the best of his era and made a few successful defenses of his titles..I mean, sure, he lost to Byrd and all but he was way ahead on points and lost due to a freak injury..His accomplishments have to count for something at least. This topic to me is like the abortion topic, where "between "it's the woman's choice" and "the baby has the right to life" Im on the fence...(BTW not to get off topic too much but I tend to favor baby rights with adoption option)

The thing is, his title reign was as if it was some minor belt. It's like with Ernie Terrell, who was belt-holding, while Ali was the man. Or like with the 80s ABC-champs, who were belt-holding, while Holmes was the man. Or like with Wilder, who was belt-holding against cherries, while Joshua was fighting the top guys. Vitali was belt-holding, while Wlad was the man.