Lennox Lewis is the GOAT

[gilgamesh]

Not sure how long you have followed the sport, but there are some things you are not taking into consideration"

Holyfield and Tyson were nowhere near the fighters that they once were when Lewis beat them. You have to take that into consideration. If you don't then you have to give Kevin McBride and Danny Williams credit for beating Tyson. If they can do it, then it is not a big deal for Lewis to have done it.

Same with Holyfield. He lost to Ruiz, Toney, Byrd, etc. when he was past it. So it should not be a big deal for Lewis to have done it.
So no, the wisn over Tyson and Holyfield aren't as impressive as Ali's wins over Liston, Frazier, and Foreman. Not remotely close.
Ali's wins were clearly better. didn't have two embarrassing losses in his prime.

This is just subjective opinion.

Lewis losses are not embarrassing. McCall and Rahman are quality accomplished heavyweights. And impressively Lewis avenged them both.

I think Ali should be embarrassed losing to Leon Spinks.

Rahman and McCall are superior fighters to lots of Ali's opponents.

Rahman and McCall are superior to most people on Ali's list.

Lewis has better opponents. Ali won some big names then after that the list is basic.

Tyson is just as good as Liston. Holyfield is just as good as Frazier. Vitali K is right up there too.

Then you gonna tell me Ernie Terrell is as good as Mercer, Tua, Ruddock, Golota.

The 90s heavyweights are mostly superior athletes and better boxers.

There are very people who pretend as if age isn't a factor at all in Leon Spinks beating Ali.

There was a guy named granberry around here that had that attitude, and he acted and talked quite similar to you.

Everybody's resume is thinner after their BIGGEST wins. Including Lennox. You act as if every one of Lennox's fights was against a meaningful contender. That's not the case with anybody in the history of the sport.

Except for maybe Pete Machen or something who fought for the Heavyweight title, and then just didn't fight again.

[oogiebe]

Not sure how long you have followed the sport, but there are some things you are not taking into consideration"

Holyfield and Tyson were nowhere near the fighters that they once were when Lewis beat them. You have to take that into consideration. If you don't then you have to give Kevin McBride and Danny Williams credit for beating Tyson. If they can do it, then it is not a big deal for Lewis to have done it.

Same with Holyfield. He lost to Ruiz, Toney, Byrd, etc. when he was past it. So it should not be a big deal for Lewis to have done it.
So no, the wisn over Tyson and Holyfield aren't as impressive as Ali's wins over Liston, Frazier, and Foreman. Not remotely close.
Ali's wins were clearly better. didn't have two embarrassing losses in his prime.

This is just subjective opinion.

Lewis losses are not embarrassing. McCall and Rahman are quality accomplished heavyweights. And impressively Lewis avenged them both.

I think Ali should be embarrassed losing to Leon Spinks.

Rahman and McCall are superior fighters to lots of Ali's opponents.

Rahman and McCall are superior to most people on Ali's list.

Lewis has better opponents. Ali won some big names then after that the list is basic.

Tyson is just as good as Liston. Holyfield is just as good as Frazier. Vitali K is right up there too.

Then you gonna tell me Ernie Terrell is as good as Mercer, Tua, Ruddock, Golota.

The 90s heavyweights are mostly superior athletes and better boxers.

There are very people who pretend as if age isn't a factor at all in Leon Spinks beating Ali.

There was a guy named granberry around here that had that attitude, and he acted and talked quite similar to you.

Everybody's resume is thinner after their BIGGEST wins. Including Lennox. You act as if every one of Lennox's fights was against a meaningful contender. That's not the case with anybody in the history of the sport.

Except for maybe Pete Machen or something who fought for the Heavyweight title, and then just didn't fight again.

Do you mean Pete Radamacher?

[gilgamesh]

Not sure how long you have followed the sport, but there are some things you are not taking into consideration"

Holyfield and Tyson were nowhere near the fighters that they once were when Lewis beat them. You have to take that into consideration. If you don't then you have to give Kevin McBride and Danny Williams credit for beating Tyson. If they can do it, then it is not a big deal for Lewis to have done it.

Same with Holyfield. He lost to Ruiz, Toney, Byrd, etc. when he was past it. So it should not be a big deal for Lewis to have done it.
So no, the wisn over Tyson and Holyfield aren't as impressive as Ali's wins over Liston, Frazier, and Foreman. Not remotely close.
Ali's wins were clearly better. didn't have two embarrassing losses in his prime.

This is just subjective opinion.

Lewis losses are not embarrassing. McCall and Rahman are quality accomplished heavyweights. And impressively Lewis avenged them both.

I think Ali should be embarrassed losing to Leon Spinks.

Rahman and McCall are superior fighters to lots of Ali's opponents.

Rahman and McCall are superior to most people on Ali's list.

Lewis has better opponents. Ali won some big names then after that the list is basic.

Tyson is just as good as Liston. Holyfield is just as good as Frazier. Vitali K is right up there too.

Then you gonna tell me Ernie Terrell is as good as Mercer, Tua, Ruddock, Golota.

The 90s heavyweights are mostly superior athletes and better boxers.

In case you never noticed. Ali avenged 3 of his defeats too.

(Although you could argue he didn't deserve the nod against Norton in their rematches)

His losses to Holmes and Trevor Berbick came when he was completely shot.

If Lennox had come back in 2006, and lost to say Samuel Peter or Wladimir Klitschko. It would've been assumed (correctly so) by the majority of Boxing observers that he was simply too far past it, and coming back wasn't a good idea. Not that Peter or Wladimir were better than him.

This is most definitely the case with the Trevor Berbick defeat for Ali.

I think Holmes would've been a handful for him even in his prime, but it definitely wouldn't have been such a one sided beating.

[gilgamesh]

This is just subjective opinion.

Lewis losses are not embarrassing. McCall and Rahman are quality accomplished heavyweights. And impressively Lewis avenged them both.

I think Ali should be embarrassed losing to Leon Spinks.

Rahman and McCall are superior fighters to lots of Ali's opponents.

Rahman and McCall are superior to most people on Ali's list.

Lewis has better opponents. Ali won some big names then after that the list is basic.

Tyson is just as good as Liston. Holyfield is just as good as Frazier. Vitali K is right up there too.

Then you gonna tell me Ernie Terrell is as good as Mercer, Tua, Ruddock, Golota.

The 90s heavyweights are mostly superior athletes and better boxers.

There are very people who pretend as if age isn't a factor at all in Leon Spinks beating Ali.

There was a guy named granberry around here that had that attitude, and he acted and talked quite similar to you.

Everybody's resume is thinner after their BIGGEST wins. Including Lennox. You act as if every one of Lennox's fights was against a meaningful contender. That's not the case with anybody in the history of the sport.

Except for maybe Pete Machen or something who fought for the Heavyweight title, and then just didn't fight again.

Do you mean Pete Radamacher?

I did. Thank you for the correction.

[Ambling Alp II]

Some people just pick and choose what they want to make their case. He obviously is ignoring obvious points that hurts his case and just keeps repeating the same things over and over.

[gilgamesh]

Some people just pick and choose what they want to make their case. He obviously is ignoring obvious points that hurts his case and just keeps repeating the same things over and over.

I'm 90% sure Ed Snowden, Mayor Curley and Matchstick are all the same person.

Matchstick just kinda popped up overnight.

[matchstick]

Some people just pick and choose what they want to make their case. He obviously is ignoring obvious points that hurts his case and just keeps repeating the same things over and over.

You do the same thing. Pick and choose.

Lennox Lewis was older than Ali when he was fighting off a prime, hungry Vitali Klitschko who history will remember as a HOF heavyweight.

So doesn't that make Lewis better? Long after Ali folded up the tent, Lewis is going strong.

Lewis only lost two matches, less than Ali had lost, and he avenged them. The two losses were against quality heavyweights.

Rahman and McCall are two quality fighters. They happened to fight in an absolutely amazing era of boxing. With that much talent, you can't win all the time.

Sorry guys, you want to believe the 60s/70s were the best. The 90s had 20 awesome guys in the heavies.

The 90s had quality fighters technically along with tremendous athletes.

Lennox was the dominant fighter in the dominant era.

Can you guys watch fighters and know if they are technically sound? Do you know what to look for?

[gilgamesh]

Lennox had a fighting style that lended itself better to aging. Ali's greatest assets being speed and movement means he lost his 2 defining skills faster than Lennox lost his.

He also had more wear and tear from having had a tougher career with more fights against stiffer opposition.

[oogiebe]

I'm done with this guy, along with his other namesakes.

[f read]

I believe Lennox Lewis is great. He is unquestionably of the of top 5-10 heavyweights of all time. However The GOAT i do not think he was that great.

[Syntax Error]

Take it up with Lewis. He spent 10 years trying to unify the belts then immediately dumped one in favour of a gimme vs Michael Grant. Could he not just have fought Ruiz, kept the belt and fought Grant next instead?

Ruiz and Grant, undisputed
Grant and Botha, fragmented belt

What do you prefer?

Becoming Undisputed is a joke in modern Boxing. Even if you have all the belts one of them will make up a reason to strip you just because.

Lennox Lewis was the Recognized Undisputed Champion. Ruiz and Byrd were contenders who had meaningless belts. He had bigger fish to fry.

He fought Tyson and Vitali Klitschko in 2002 and 2003 respectively. Both of those fights were bigger than a fight with Ruiz or Byrd could've ever been.

God you're retarded.

He dumped the WBA belt for a gimme with Grant.

He dumped the IBF for a gimme rematch with the corpse of Tyson, who he had already beaten to death.

Vitali was a last minute sub for Kirk Johnson. Kirk Johnson! The man who lost to John Ruiz!!

In which alternate universe did Lennox Lewis have two fights with Tyson?

In which alternate universe was Michael Grant a gimme in the year 2000?

It sounds like you're rewriting history as a way to denigrate Lewis.

By all means, denigrate Lewis if you wish to, but do it using facts and credible opinions.

[Boxing Writer]

No. Not even close

[Onetimeonly]

He's pretty locked in between 3-8 for me. I would have him 7.

[Tuan_Jim]

Becoming Undisputed is a joke in modern Boxing. Even if you have all the belts one of them will make up a reason to strip you just because.

Lennox Lewis was the Recognized Undisputed Champion. Ruiz and Byrd were contenders who had meaningless belts. He had bigger fish to fry.

He fought Tyson and Vitali Klitschko in 2002 and 2003 respectively. Both of those fights were bigger than a fight with Ruiz or Byrd could've ever been.

God you're retarded.

He dumped the WBA belt for a gimme with Grant.

He dumped the IBF for a gimme rematch with the corpse of Tyson, who he had already beaten to death.

Vitali was a last minute sub for Kirk Johnson. Kirk Johnson! The man who lost to John Ruiz!!

In which alternate universe did Lennox Lewis have two fights with Tyson?

In which alternate universe was Michael Grant a gimme in the year 2000?

It sounds like you're rewriting history as a way to denigrate Lewis.

By all means, denigrate Lewis if you wish to, but do it using facts and credible opinions.

Do you not remember Lennox Lewis doggedly pursuing a contracted rematch with Mike Tyson? Don't quote me on this, but I think he may even have tried to take Tyson to court over it. He really wanted that second mega payday against Iron Mike.

Lewis walked away from an April 2003 fight with Byrd, for his old IBF belt, because he was angling for a June date with Tyson, who ultimately wasn't interested in/ready for a rematch; so instead they put together Lewis/Johnson, which then mutated into Lewis/Klitschko.

[Syntax Error]

God you're retarded.

He dumped the WBA belt for a gimme with Grant.

He dumped the IBF for a gimme rematch with the corpse of Tyson, who he had already beaten to death.

Vitali was a last minute sub for Kirk Johnson. Kirk Johnson! The man who lost to John Ruiz!!

In which alternate universe did Lennox Lewis have two fights with Tyson?

In which alternate universe was Michael Grant a gimme in the year 2000?

It sounds like you're rewriting history as a way to denigrate Lewis.

By all means, denigrate Lewis if you wish to, but do it using facts and credible opinions.

Do you not remember Lennox Lewis doggedly pursuing a contracted rematch with Mike Tyson? Don't quote me on this, but I think he may even have tried to take Tyson to court over it. He really wanted that second mega payday against Iron Mike.

Lewis walked away from an April 2003 fight with Byrd, for his old IBF belt, because he was angling for a June date with Tyson, who ultimately wasn't interested in/ready for a rematch; so instead they put together Lewis/Johnson, which then mutated into Lewis/Klitschko.

Fair enough; I misunderstood it.

I am ashamed to admit I wasn't even aware that Lewis pursued a rematch with Tyson.

I'm surprised Tyson didn't go for it because by that stage, he was only fighting for money

[Tuan_Jim]

In which alternate universe did Lennox Lewis have two fights with Tyson?

In which alternate universe was Michael Grant a gimme in the year 2000?

It sounds like you're rewriting history as a way to denigrate Lewis.

By all means, denigrate Lewis if you wish to, but do it using facts and credible opinions.

Do you not remember Lennox Lewis doggedly pursuing a contracted rematch with Mike Tyson? Don't quote me on this, but I think he may even have tried to take Tyson to court over it. He really wanted that second mega payday against Iron Mike.

Lewis walked away from an April 2003 fight with Byrd, for his old IBF belt, because he was angling for a June date with Tyson, who ultimately wasn't interested in/ready for a rematch; so instead they put together Lewis/Johnson, which then mutated into Lewis/Klitschko.

Fair enough; I misunderstood it.

I am ashamed to admit I wasn't even aware that Lewis pursued a rematch with Tyson.

I'm surprised Tyson didn't go for it because by that stage, he was only fighting for money

If I recall correctly they press him on a Lewis rematch in the Etienne post fight interview; it's easy to forget because it was a tour de force of Tyson insanity ("I got a face tattoo because I hate my face" - "I fought with a broken back")