Terence Crawford vs. Kell Brook - 14 November 2020

[cormack]

For me since Mayweather's / Andre Ward's retirement, I'd have Crawford as P4P number #1 - find it increasingly difficult to make a case for an alternative now - perhaps Inoue. I do agree though that I thought he jumped up to Welter a bit too soon.

Crawfords opponents haven't been good. I remember after he beat Burns he went and fought Gamboa in his next fight. I thought this was such a breath of fresh air because you knew Burns was going to hog the belt and defend against some tepid opponents in unwatchable fights. Burns Gamboa wouldn't have been made in a million years. Since then he's had a very weak schedule. The likes of Errol Spence has put him to shame in terms of opponents. Crawford needs to step up his opponent level. Brook is a good start.

Crawford is like many top rated fighters who dont seem to have fights against their peers , he says they dont want to fight him ...

[ash_]

For me since Mayweather's / Andre Ward's retirement, I'd have Crawford as P4P number #1 - find it increasingly difficult to make a case for an alternative now - perhaps Inoue. I do agree though that I thought he jumped up to Welter a bit too soon.

Crawfords opponents haven't been good. I remember after he beat Burns he went and fought Gamboa in his next fight. I thought this was such a breath of fresh air because you knew Burns was going to hog the belt and defend against some tepid opponents in unwatchable fights. Burns Gamboa wouldn't have been made in a million years. Since then he's had a very weak schedule. The likes of Errol Spence has put him to shame in terms of opponents. Crawford needs to step up his opponent level. Brook is a good start.

Agree. Needs that defining win at 147.

[JimJim2009]

For me since Mayweather's / Andre Ward's retirement, I'd have Crawford as P4P number #1 - find it increasingly difficult to make a case for an alternative now - perhaps Inoue. I do agree though that I thought he jumped up to Welter a bit too soon.

Crawfords opponents haven't been good. I remember after he beat Burns he went and fought Gamboa in his next fight. I thought this was such a breath of fresh air because you knew Burns was going to hog the belt and defend against some tepid opponents in unwatchable fights. Burns Gamboa wouldn't have been made in a million years. Since then he's had a very weak schedule. The likes of Errol Spence has put him to shame in terms of opponents. Crawford needs to step up his opponent level. Brook is a good start.

Crawford is like many top rated fighters who dont seem to have fights against their peers , he says they dont want to fight him ...

In a way its not Crawford vs Spence etc its PBC vs Top Rank, and if Crawford jumps ship, PBC's stubbornness on not letting their guys face Crawford would have paid off - for them, not for boxing fans.

[Stanny Onis]

Hope no matter what.. Brook doesn't quit like a bitch like that pussy Khan did (from a leg punch lol)

[Blueprint]

Brook made weight, doesn't look drained.

[TheLeprechaun]

Hope no matter what.. Brook doesn't quit like a bitch like that pussy Khan did (from a leg punch lol)

Khan was getting soundly outboxed for the first time in his career. Shameless quitting. I get the feeling Brook will quit too. He's pretty much done it twice against his two best opponents.

[skanksta]

Hope no matter what.. Brook doesn't quit like a bitch like that pussy Khan did (from a leg punch lol)

Khan was getting soundly outboxed for the first time in his career. Shameless quitting. I get the feeling Brook will quit too. He's pretty much done it twice against his two best opponents.

That’s incredibly harsh !

[Ruthless-RKO]

Hope no matter what.. Brook doesn't quit like a bitch like that pussy Khan did (from a leg punch lol)

Khan was getting soundly outboxed for the first time in his career. Shameless quitting. I get the feeling Brook will quit too. He's pretty much done it twice against his two best opponents.

That’s incredibly harsh !

On Khan or Brook? Or both?

[Ruthless-RKO]

[skanksta]

Khan was getting soundly outboxed for the first time in his career. Shameless quitting. I get the feeling Brook will quit too. He's pretty much done it twice against his two best opponents.

That’s incredibly harsh !

On Khan or Brook? Or both?

On Brook.
“Quit twice” - is “retired with broken eye sockets against ATG punchers” for me Clive.

[TheLeprechaun]

That’s incredibly harsh !

On Khan or Brook? Or both?

On Brook.
“Quit twice” - is “retired with broken eye sockets against ATG punchers” for me Clive.

Well he was fighitng back vs GGG and stopped by the towel from the corner. So in hindsight I don't think that can be classed as quitting. He definitely did quit vs Spence. Whether or not people think it was justified, the fact remains that he quit in the fight.

[Delta Jay]

That’s incredibly harsh !

On Khan or Brook? Or both?

On Brook.
“Quit twice” - is “retired with broken eye sockets against ATG punchers” for me Clive.

I’m with you there. Imagine having your eye ball hanging all loose because Gennady Gofuckinglovkin broke the bone what’s supposed to hold it in. That’s not quitting, that’s two career-threatening injuries he’s bounced back from.

Think Crawford will target the eyes all night and it will likely not have much effect. But talk of Kel Brook’s aging and slowing is greatly exaggerated

[tonyevs]

Getting your nose broken is painful enough - breaking an eye socket takes that pain to a completely different level.

It's hardly a sore toe is it!

Khan and Brook have nothing to prove in respect of their bravery in the ring.

[TheLeprechaun]

The definition of quitting in the fight is very clear.

Eubank Sr fought Thompson with a severely swollen eye. He never took a knee out and it's impossible to imagine him doing it. I'm not saying Kell wasn't right to quit but I'm just saying he did in fact quit.

I think the GGG fight was a fight where he didn't quit, to be clear. In the Spence fight he literally went down on a knee and allowed himself to be counted out. That's quitting in my book.

Khan bottled the Crawford fight. He didn't want to know and quit in the fight.

[margaret thatcher]

The definition of quitting in the fight is very clear.

Eubank Sr fought Thompson with a severely swollen eye. He never took a knee out and it's impossible to imagine him doing it. I'm not saying Kell wasn't right to quit but I'm just saying he did in fact quit.

I think the GGG fight was a fight where he didn't quit, to be clear. In the Spence fight he literally went down on a knee and allowed himself to be counted out. That's quitting in my book.

Khan bottled the Crawford fight. He didn't want to know and quit in the fight.

ya it's a good point---a lot of the time people get up in arms when someone says a boxer quit, but fact is it happens a lot. the thing is, it's not necessarily a dishonourable thing , it depends on the case. if a guy has gotten an absolutue shellacking, is spent after many hard rounds, badly injured, etc...then he doesnt really deserve stick

but capitulating, calling it a day during a fight, however it's framed---it's still a guy quitting and having enough. in brook's case i wouldnt say he's got weak heart, he fought hard in all his losses and other fights too. we have never seen him bail timidly just as it got tough.

[Counter-puncher]

The definition of quitting in the fight is very clear.

Eubank Sr fought Thompson with a severely swollen eye. He never took a knee out and it's impossible to imagine him doing it. I'm not saying Kell wasn't right to quit but I'm just saying he did in fact quit.

I think the GGG fight was a fight where he didn't quit, to be clear. In the Spence fight he literally went down on a knee and allowed himself to be counted out. That's quitting in my book.

Khan bottled the Crawford fight. He didn't want to know and quit in the fight.

ya it's a good point---a lot of the time people get up in arms when someone says a boxer quit, but fact is it happens a lot. the thing is, it's not necessarily a dishonourable thing , it depends on the case. if a guy has gotten an absolutue shellacking, is spent after many hard rounds, badly injured, etc...then he doesnt really deserve stick

but capitulating, calling it a day during a fight, however it's framed---it's still a guy quitting and having enough. in brook's case i wouldnt say he's got weak heart, he fought hard in all his losses and other fights too.

absolutely possible to 'quit' with dignity





Zaragoza that look on his face. the shaking of the right glove. 'Ok, I'm done now' The pugilist, now at rest. Enjoy your retirement, El Raton

[margaret thatcher]

[Counter-puncher]

'my career was hard. I'm proud, but I'm done now'

[Stanny Onis]

Khan and Brook have nothing to prove in respect of their bravery in the ring.

Khan had ZERO bravery in the Crawford fight. He quit like a cowardly bitch and robbed Crawford of a highlight reel KO. Khan quit from a leg punch cause he knew he had no chance , he even had 5 minutes to recover but didn't take it lol. Can't believe he had the audacity to lie and say it was a low blow to the balls when there is clear footage of where the punch went. Khan only took that fight for the money. One of the most pussy quits I"ve ever seen in the ring.

[MightyWarrior]

That’s bollocks Khan is one of the bravest fighters out there, I mean just look at the fighters he’s taken on, some real monsters on there, look at the way he hung on in the Maidena fight, out on his feet, he even tried to carry on against Prescott after being absolutely poleaxed.

I can easily forgive him bailing out near the end of his career in the Crawford fight, and would also point to the fact he was doing exactly what his corner told him to, which was stay put and try and get the disqualification.

Brook having an eye socket broke, well that’s a very good reason not to continue as well, I mean who the hell wants to risk their eyesight - what other sport would that be acceptable ..

[cormack]

Khan and Brook have nothing to prove in respect of their bravery in the ring.

Khan had ZERO bravery in the Crawford fight. He quit like a cowardly bitch and robbed Crawford of a highlight reel KO. Khan quit from a leg punch cause he knew he had no chance , he even had 5 minutes to recover but didn't take it lol. Can't believe he had the audacity to lie and say it was a low blow to the balls when there is clear footage of where the punch went. Khan only took that fight for the money. One of the most pussy quits I"ve ever seen in the ring.

I feel that Brook will not quit like Khan did , that was a disgrace !
If Brooks eye socket goes again or similiar then the towel is the answer , why take severe potentially dangerous punches if you know you are done .. like Wilders team decided vs Fury .

[TheLeprechaun]

That’s bollocks Khan is one of the bravest fighters out there, I mean just look at the fighters he’s taken on, some real monsters on there, look at the way he hung on in the Maidena fight, out on his feet, he even tried to carry on against Prescott after being absolutely poleaxed.

I can easily forgive him bailing out near the end of his career in the Crawford fight, and would also point to the fact he was doing exactly what his corner told him to, which was stay put and try and get the disqualification.

Brook having an eye socket broke, well that’s a very good reason not to continue as well, I mean who the hell wants to risk their eyesight - what other sport would that be acceptable ..

Khan WAS one of the bravest, no doubt he had the heart of a lion. Quitting like that vs Crawford is something he wouldn't have done earlier in his career. That was a situation where a guy quit and there is no excusing it.

Brook on the other hand we know had surgery after the Spence fight. He didn't actually quit at all in the GGG fight, he was just hurt and ready to go before the corner stopped it. In the Spence fight he did quit. If he gets cracked on the eye and starts to feel it's not right then he will feel justified in quitting again and I suspect people defending him won't mind?

I definitely think the quitting subject is a tough one. At some point it is justified to quit. You could say McClellan quit vs Benn. Technically he did but can anyone honestly feel comfortable saying he quit?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Ingle: You Can Tell in First Four How it Will Go With Kell Brook

Kell Brook’s former trainer Dominic Ingle admits his old charge is up against it when he takes on Terence Crawford in Las Vegas this weekend.

The Sheffield fighter, a former welterweight titleholder, is a huge underdog against one of the pound-for-pound best and Brook did a lot of his preparation with Carlos Formento in Spain before flying out to finish camp in Nevada.

Cynics think Brook is cashing out, that he’s making one last cash grab before calling it a day.

Brook is now a 34-year-old 41-fight veteran and he’s an experienced hand. But Ingle has seen it before, too. His family has coached kids to championship level and then fighters have moved on and away.

“The gym and everyone in it kept Naz [Naseem Hamed] and the others on track – but at the time they don’t realise that and think they’re doing it all on their own – it’s only when they leave that they realise they had the support system behind them,” said Ingle.

Brook has had a notoriously wayward time away from the ring and Ingle said they hadn’t even discussed the Crawford fight.

Ingle would have preferred Brook to take a keep-busy fight to close out 2020 with a big bout in 2021. That’s not how it’s worked out.

Kell has a mountain to climb.

“It would have to be a prime Kell Brook,” said Ingle, when asked what it would take for Kell to win. “First of all, if Kell went into that fight strong, fit, on it, then you’d just tell Kell to do what he normally does, back Crawford up, slip shots, ping him with timed shots and make sure they’re accurate so Crawford is less inclined to take risks. Kell will believe he can do that but whether he’s got the engine now, or the timing or the stamina and endurance due to not making that weight for over three years I don’t know. I think he’ll be taking more shots than he normally does.

"He’s still going to have his power but his timing might be off, making the weight at 147 will take a lot out of him. He can make it, because he’s determined that way but when you think, from Kell winning the world title fight, he’s not had consistency or continuity either through injury or lack of big fights [since]. Crawford’s a clever fighter. If he feels Kell’s power he’ll be moving, popping him, keeping the pace up and trying to make Kell gas, believing he’s a weight-drained fighter. If Kell doesn’t start having an effect in the first four rounds and making an impression on Crawford, he’s not in the fight and his power’s not telling, then he’s either going to get beat on points or it’s going to be a late stoppage. You can always tell in the first four rounds how it’s going to go [with Brook].”

And while Ingle says there’s been no fall out, he won’t be watching it on Saturday night (or Sunday morning on Premier Sports in the UK).

“I won’t watch it, no,” he stated. “It’s not of interest to me if I’m not involved. I watched him in the [Michael] Zerafa [fight] and it made me feel uncomfortable and disappointed. I’ve done my bit with Kell. I got him to world championship level and all those other fights and what many fighters don’t appreciate is the amount of sacrifice and commitment you have to put in on a personal level to get them there. From that point onwards you expect a little bit of credit and respect for keeping them on track as we did with Johnny Nelson and Junior Witter where they finished their careers with us. When I was getting 10 per cent of £1,000, £2000, £3000 purses you’re putting in all the hard work then, you’re building a base and you’re putting in time and effort and hours for the pay-off later on down the line. When they become world champions and they don’t appreciate what they’ve got, it’s disappointing. I’ve been with Kell 23 years, since he was 10. It’s a lot of time and effort and we’ve had good times and money but it was disproportionate to the amount of time invested. If he wins, good because I’ve been part of the process and that’s satisfying and if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. Hopefully he won’t end up a springboard for some young prospect’s career.”

Ingle thinks that Kell might be relying on his experience to hang tough against Crawford and wonders whether Brook will appreciate how depleted he may feel having to hit 147 for the first time since he fought Spence in 2017.

He also doesn’t envisage them having a boxer-trainer relationship again.

“There will be no need for me to work with him again after this fight because if he wins he’s on his way and if he loses it’s a massive rebuilding process for everyone involved which could be much better spent on someone younger and more ambitious,” he said.

Brook explained that part of the reason he’s not training with Ingle is because he needed to be a focal point of the camp while Ingle had fight dates and camps with two of his other fighters, Willie Hutchison and Liam Williams, to accommodate. But he contends Brook could have been better served being with them, with young and ambitious pros.

“Barry [Kid Galahad]’s the measuring stick in our gym, he has a constant level of fitness and determination,” Dominic continued. “If you can stick with Barry through a training camp do the runs, the rounds of sparring then it’s a good indication of being in the right place. Him and Kell were always neck and neck they were always pushing each other on. Barry was the marker and you could measure Kell’s determination and will to win by their competitiveness but now there are no markers, only his own idea of his ability and sometimes that can be distorted by backslappers and those people pumping up the ego. You can’t set your own limits in a training camp whether they be high or low. But I don’t hold it against him. Loyalty works both ways. We’ve not fallen out. I’d never fall out with Kell. I’ve not got any bad feelings towards him whatsoever. This doesn’t happen on the way up, it always happens at the back end of their careers. He has always come to the gym and done his own stuff even before this fight.

"Even before he signed for this Crawford fight, I said to come in and use the gym then when it’s confirmed, let’s talk business. Outside of boxing we didn’t have a relationship. Every now and then we might go on a cycle ride, we didn’t socialise, we didn’t phone each other between fights. I left him to live his own life because his lifestyle was different to mine, his friends were different… I went to his children’s christening, stuff like that, but that was it. It was all training, that’s what our relationship was. There’s no bitterness with me at all.”

[THEBUTCH]

The ending in the Khan v Crawford fight did appear dubious, only Khan will know what was going on at the point he wouldn't box on, however, Amir has displayed bravery time & again. He has often epitomised the phrase 'going out on your shield'.

Getting back to the Crawford v Brook fight, unless Brook can show something tonight that he has never shown before in his entire career, he simply isn't in Crawford's class and never has been or will be. He will get beaten in every department.

Just my opinion but he's faced three world class opponents : GGG was game over before it even started, Porter I don't think is that great at all in world class but fair play to Brook for squeaking out a decision in a shit fight and Spence systematically dismantled him. So what's Crawford going to do ?

[TheLeprechaun]

The ending in the Khan v Crawford fight did appear dubious, only Khan will know what was going on at the point he wouldn't box on, however, Amir has displayed bravery time & again. He has often epitomised the phrase 'going out on your shield'.

Getting back to the Crawford v Brook fight, unless Brook can show something tonight that he has never shown before in his entire career, he simply isn't in Crawford's class and never has been or will be. He will get beaten in every department.

Just my opinion but he's faced three world class opponents : GGG was game over before it even started, Porter I don't think is that great at all in world class but fair play to Brook for squeaking out a decision in a poo fight and Spence systematically dismantled him. So what's Crawford going to do ?

The win over Porter aged fairly well. Porter beat Danny Garcia and went real close with Thurman and Spence. GGG was capable of taking flush shots from Brook and walking right through the shots with a blank look on his face - absolutely no chance of Brook winning there.