Boxing ... PEDs

[Jimmy2020]

P.S. I believe Duran was clean but none of the top Americans of the late seventies to mid eighties.

[polecateddy]

You can pretty much follow the evolution of bodybuilding from Arnold’s day in the 70’s through to the 90’s and then on to today. Arnold was of course on steroids, but the drug cocktails available back then pail in comparison to what is available these days. The recent trend of the ‘mass monster’ isn’t so much that training has become better, more that simply the drugs have. In MMA it’s probably a little easier to see just what a boost the right cocktail of drugs can provide a fighter. It was probably most stark in Alistair Overeem, a mass monster of a heavyweight pinged for excessive testosterone a couple of times. The clean version is physically something of a shadow of what he was, and likewise his results have dipped considerably. In boxing Joshua shrank a lot for the second Ruiz fight. Maybe that was just dieting, but I wouldn’t want to bet my house on that was all it was.

[Jimmy2020]

You can pretty much follow the evolution of bodybuilding from Arnold’s day in the 70’s through to the 90’s and then on to today. The recent trend of the ‘mass monster’ isn’t so much that training has become better, more that simply the drugs have. In MMA it’s probably a little easier to see just what a boost the right cocktail of drugs can provide a fighter. It was probably most stark in Alistair Overeem, a mass monster of a heavyweight pinged for excessive testosterone a couple of times. The clean version is physically something of a shadow of what he was, and likewise his results have dipped considerably. In boxing Joshua shrank a lot for the second Ruiz fight. Maybe that was just dieting... :)

I know you'll not take my word for it (why should you), but the general quality of steroids available now (for most people) are not as good as they were in the seventies and eighties. Yes some very wealthy well connected athletes consistently have access to high grade product but you are talking about the very top few in any particular sport who can get to didy doctors (Arabs often). For the most part the quality is crappy, folk just take more of it and HGH too. Arnold et all took relatively small doses of really good stuff (so did athletes and sportspeople back then, it was only some of the Eastern Bloc lot who went daft). Aesthetics and health still counted for something for the seventies bodybuilders

[polecateddy]

That’s it isn’t it, there are just so many more growth options. Human Growth Hormone seems to have been the big game changer in bodybuilding in the 90’s, with England’s Dorian Yates giving way to the insanely massive Ronnie Coleman in the 2000’s. The side effect is the bubble gut, which is pretty ugly!

[Jimmy2020]

That’s it isn’t it, there are just so many more growth options. Human Growth Hormone seems to have been the big game changer in bodybuilding in the 90’s, with England’s Dorian Yates giving way to the insanely massive Ronnie Coleman in the 2000’s. The side effect is the bubble gut, which is pretty ugly!

They'd been messing with HGH since the early 80s but because there's not really anything better than good old fashioned high quality testosterone they didn't need to bother taking it too seriously. Once it became hard work to get hold of really good quality test the focus shifted more towards seeing what HGH could do. Like you say Yates et al thrived on that but there's now fairyl skinny lads in gyms taking bigger doses than Doz was. The difference, again, is the quality. It's no different than any other drug in that dealers cut it one way or another.

[Counter-puncher]

You can pretty much follow the evolution of bodybuilding from Arnold’s day in the 70’s through to the 90’s and then on to today. The recent trend of the ‘mass monster’ isn’t so much that training has become better, more that simply the drugs have. In MMA it’s probably a little easier to see just what a boost the right cocktail of drugs can provide a fighter. It was probably most stark in Alistair Overeem, a mass monster of a heavyweight pinged for excessive testosterone a couple of times. The clean version is physically something of a shadow of what he was, and likewise his results have dipped considerably. In boxing Joshua shrank a lot for the second Ruiz fight. Maybe that was just dieting... :)

I know you'll not take my word for it (why should you), but the general quality of steroids available now (for most people) are not as good as they were in the seventies and eighties. Yes some very wealthy well connected athletes consistently have access to high grade product but you are talking about the very top few in any particular sport who can get to didy doctors (Arabs often). For the most part the quality is crappy, folk just take more of it and HGH too. Arnold et all took relatively small doses of really good stuff (so did athletes and sportspeople back then, it was only some of the Eastern Bloc lot who went daft). Aesthetics and health still counted for something for the seventies bodybuilders

has science not progressed? or are the results of said progression simply not being released other than to the very top of the ladder? what's the sticking point for those not in this loop? not enough money, or contacts to the appropriate doctors/labs?

[Wee Tommy]

All very true. I know a few gym owners and their bread and butter wages come from steroid sales. It’s mostly what they call UGLs (underground labs) which I’m told can be someone’s kitchen basically.

I’m on TRT just now and I get Bayer Testosterone Enanthate in 1ml sealed vials, it’s twice the price of the UGL stuff.

[Counter-puncher]

All very true. I know a few gym owners and their bread and butter wages come from steroid sales. It’s mostly what they call UGLs (underground labs) which I’m told can be someone’s kitchen basically.

I take it this is the bottom end of the market, and assume Canelo isn't sourcing his product this way

[Wee Tommy]

All very true. I know a few gym owners and their bread and butter wages come from steroid sales. It’s mostly what they call UGLs (underground labs) which I’m told can be someone’s kitchen basically.

I take it this is the bottom end of the market, and assume Canelo isn't sourcing his product this way

Bayer is top end stuff. In Mexico, you can get pharmaceutical stuff very easily. It’s in the US it’s difficult as it’s heavily prohibited. You could sell a few grand a weeks worth of steroids here and the police wouldnt touch you. In US you’d get a heavy sentence.

[Counter-puncher]

All very true. I know a few gym owners and their bread and butter wages come from steroid sales. It’s mostly what they call UGLs (underground labs) which I’m told can be someone’s kitchen basically.

I take it this is the bottom end of the market, and assume Canelo isn't sourcing his product this way

Bayer is top end stuff. In Mexico, you can get pharmaceutical stuff very easily. It’s in the US it’s difficult as it’s heavily prohibited. You could sell a few grand a weeks worth of steroids here and the police wouldnt touch you. In US you’d get a heavy sentence.

so, maybe easier for the below-top end boys over here to be bang on the gear, than their equivalents in the US (heavier legal prohibition = fewer willing to deal?)?

[polecateddy]

The ruin a long term drug program does to an athletes internal organs is pretty horrifying. I think the worst one I read about was top professional bodybuilder Andreas Munzer. Dead at 31. I think his blood was described as a gloopy mess, and his liver had turned into a crumbling mass resembling polystyrene. Heart twice the size it should have been. Yuck! You see interviews with middle aged retired bodybuilders, often back to very normal sizes, and the overriding impression is they're just very glad to still be alive after taking all that crap.

[Jimmy2020]

I take it this is the bottom end of the market, and assume Canelo isn't sourcing his product this way

Bayer is top end stuff. In Mexico, you can get pharmaceutical stuff very easily. It’s in the US it’s difficult as it’s heavily prohibited. You could sell a few grand a weeks worth of steroids here and the police wouldnt touch you. In US you’d get a heavy sentence.

so, maybe easier for the below-top end boys over here to be bang on the gear, than their equivalents in the US (heavier legal prohibition = fewer willing to deal?)?

It may well explain why we caught up a bit with the Yanks towards the end of the eighties and into the nineties. Into the 2000s the playing field levelled out at the very top but the second tier Americans without any financial clout are behind the curve now. As Tommy says, the Mexicans (and Arabs) have plenty of doctors who'll quietly sell whatever you want.

[BigDoofus]

P.S. I believe Duran was clean but none of the top Americans of the late seventies to mid eighties.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxin ... the%20blue.

https://www.BS.com/chavez-sr-r ... ht--114606

[knockout]

I cant remember the exact date, but it was well into the 80s i think, that steroids became a criminally illegal substance in the USA. Prior to that they were legal to buy and sell so it was easy to obtain pure anabolics.

Out of season testing didnt exist in sports until after Ben Johnson scandal and in boxing it has only started relatively recently

So combine :

1) readily accessible pharmacutical grade steroids
2) knowing you would be fighting 3 times a year and wouldnt be tested in between

and it really would have been extremely easy to juice in the 70s and 80s in USA.

[Jimmy2020]

I cant remember the exact date, but it was well into the 80s i think, that steroids became a criminally illegal substance in the USA. Prior to that they were legal to buy and sell so it was easy to obtain pure anabolics.

Out of season testing didnt exist in sports until after Ben Johnson scandal and in boxing it has only started relatively recently

So combine :

1) readily accessible pharmacutical grade steroids
2) knowing you would be fighting 3 times a year and wouldnt be tested in between

and it really would have been extremely easy to juice in the 70s and 80s in USA.

It was 1986. That's what I was talking about above.

[blanca]

You can pretty much follow the evolution of bodybuilding from Arnold’s day in the 70’s through to the 90’s and then on to today. Arnold was of course on steroids, but the drug cocktails available back then pail in comparison to what is available these days. The recent trend of the ‘mass monster’ isn’t so much that training has become better, more that simply the drugs have. In MMA it’s probably a little easier to see just what a boost the right cocktail of drugs can provide a fighter. It was probably most stark in Alistair Overeem, a mass monster of a heavyweight pinged for excessive testosterone a couple of times. The clean version is physically something of a shadow of what he was, and likewise his results have dipped considerably. In boxing Joshua shrank a lot for the second Ruiz fight. Maybe that was just dieting, but I wouldn’t want to bet my house on that was all it was.

Used to watch aot of K1 years ago and the reem was indeed a specimen back then compared to now.

[Wee Tommy]

I know a boxer who trained with Joshua in his amateur days. I’m sure I’ve said it before. He said Joshua was meticulous about his bodybuilding training. After all the boxing was done he’d always do weights med weights very high reps, was all about the pump and posing! This was before the Olympics.

There was a poster on here , Toby, who was a natural physique competitor. He stated bluntly that the amount of lean mass AJ put on from am to pro was impossible naturally. I’ve seen the same in research studies which show a limit to the amount of lean mass and already fit and trained athlete can add naturally. He had the gut at one time also.

There are thousands of compounds that could be labelled as peds. Healing peptides, fat burners, stamina drugs, all sorts. Most are virtually undetectable if used wisely.

[Cent0089]

just look at Hagler or Tyson, those guys were roided AF.

Hagler, really?!

Of course. 80s and 90s guys were so roided

[Teddy's Toupee]

Does anyone else think Spud and "new" member Jimmy2020 are the same person?

Hello Teddy,

Huck, Jimmy, FlawedGenius, MachoMan09, Aden, Sklar are all past handles of mine since circa 1999 on British Boxers, here, Secondsout, ESB, Doghouse. Not very good at remembering passwords. Apologies for any confusion.

I remember the Aden and Sklar ones. I apologise for accusing you of being Spud.

[TheLeprechaun]

These PED threads just show you who has actually trained in boxing gyms and who hasn't. I suppose quite a lot of posters here have not actually boxed. If you had been in boxing gyms and mingled with fighters you'd know that they are mostly all on PEDs.

Don't know so much about that , i had my own gym for years , still mess around with training , I can truthfully say , i have never known anyone in my gym to use them , personaly i know bugger all about them , I would'nt put up with anyone using them ,, the only ones i knew who did , there were two of them .

Funny really that both these fellas had similar temprements , both came to the gym at the age of around 11-12 ,, both shown a natural ability for the sport , both done reasonably well in the juniours , and both gave it away when they reached seniour level , both were kids who you had to baby them mentaly , unlike the others in the gym , both these lads would want to know who there boxing , what there like , how many fights did they have at school , ect , and both these kids were ferocious in the ring , UNTIL they could'nt hurt the other guy , then both would actually sit on the stool and say , he hits to hard throw the towel in , both would respond to a telling off , and both if they fought someone decent would act like they had won a world title if they got beat ,

Both after a couple of years lay off , came back to the gym , both had bodys like Arnold , and i told both both of them to leave NO STROIDS allowed in my gym , Both asked why did i say there on steroids , and both got the same answer , which was theres only two ways to get a body like yours , hard work or steroids , and your both too lazy to do the hard workd , so bugger off ,

Both actually went to other gyms and ending up boxing my lads , and we never lost to them , beccause , i only had to tell my other lads , don't matter what , hit them fast and hit them hard and they will turn there backs and give up , and both did .

Course its not always the case , i suppose quite a lot are tough and good , and probably feel they need to do it to get to the next level , and too be honest my boxers never reached the elite level , Aussie rep in ameteurs , and perhaps commonwealth level in the pro's , but never really elite ...... If your in the Elite level , and feel your disadvantaged if you don't do it , well who am i to say right or wrong , its buisness and moneys involved and you may fell you want an even playing feild ,,,,, But guys who take them at the lower levels , well to me there just cowardly foookers who do it to try and get a win hey don't deserve and want an advantage cos there scared , just like the two i mentioned

great post and good insight. totally agree with your comments.

[Wee Tommy]

I take it this is the bottom end of the market, and assume Canelo isn't sourcing his product this way

Bayer is top end stuff. In Mexico, you can get pharmaceutical stuff very easily. It’s in the US it’s difficult as it’s heavily prohibited. You could sell a few grand a weeks worth of steroids here and the police wouldnt touch you. In US you’d get a heavy sentence.

so, maybe easier for the below-top end boys over here to be bang on the gear, than their equivalents in the US (heavier legal prohibition = fewer willing to deal?)?

I think mate that in the US the UGLs proliferate amongst most gym goers and even blue collar pros and the top level will have to pay high rates to dodgy Drs in the states for TRT to get the good stuff. Or visit Mexico. Overall I don’t think it’s very difficult to get some kind of gear either here or in US. Here it’s easy. It’s everywhere.

[ERIC GUY]

like, these days, if you're in a gym do you just gotta accept the reality that dudes are gonna be asking you to help stick needles up their arse?

not all peds are stuck in buttocks,

[mustlogin]

Just wait to see Whyte getting caught for the third time and get away for it. The point is that Matchroom has more money than UKAD and UKAD really only cares for olympic sports and international events.

[ERIC GUY]

The ruin a long term drug program does to an athletes internal organs is pretty horrifying. I think the worst one I read about was top professional bodybuilder Andreas Munzer. Dead at 31. I think his blood was described as a gloopy mess, and his liver had turned into a crumbling mass resembling polystyrene. Heart twice the size it should have been. Yuck! You see interviews with middle aged retired bodybuilders, often back to very normal sizes, and the overriding impression is they're just very glad to still be alive after taking all that crap.

if you read about andreas muntzer, , you would really know the cycle he was on, he was an abusive user,

[Jimmy2020]

Just wait to see Whyte getting caught for the third time and get away for it. The point is that Matchroom has more money than UKAD and UKAD really only cares for olympic sports and international events.

He looked huge sitting on whichever island he's holed up on watching Chisora and Usyk the other week.